M3/M4 Offical: Production E92 M3

[Osnabrueck]

Agh - I just can't get over the front air dam. I'm sure there's some practical concerns that ultimately shaped the piece, but it just looks clumsy and awkward when compared to the M5, M6 and the E92 aero kit.

I'm sure this will be a spectacular car but right now I feel somewhat underwhelmed.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

If the RS4 is faster, then the simple fact is that Audi has done a better job in this particular segment than BMW. Put another way, if the M3 cannot beat the time set by the RS4, that suggests to me that Audi is right and Quattro is the way to go even for a performance car.

Or that P Zero Corsas + Ceramic Brakes are the way to go.

 

[ILC32]

Huh? PS2s are great for street, but don't even come close to a properly warmed up set of R compounds on a track - I have a set of pilot cups I use for auto cross - the difference is day and night.

I don't know how you get your cups hot enough to make a difference over PS2s in autocross, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe you are doing back to back runs or something.

I have run PS2s on a road course and they performed well considering my moderate skill level. Sure an R compound is ultimately *better*, but I am saying that good tires such as a PS2 should be enough to beat 8:09 if the new M3 is to be considered a success in my opinion. Again, the M5 ran 8:13 on street contis. I don't think it is expecting too much for the M3 to beat 8:09 with less weight (over 300 lbs less if the weight given above is accurate) than the RS4 and roughly the same power.

 

[Zafiro]

I have finally started to drive my E46 M3 again now that the weather is better where I am located. It is fantastic to rev that motor, and feel the suspension loading in turns. I love the car, and I want to love the new M3. My wife drives a 530xi, which is also a great car (too bad for us the turbo motor was not available in 2006 when we bought it).

BMW builds the cars that across all product lines best appeal to me from the standpoint of performance, feel, looks and value.

But I am a pragmatist. If there is another manufacturer out there doing a better job right now, I will be disappointed in BMW, but I will not stick with BMW out of brand loyalty.

BMW is a business, not a religion. Its cars are products to either buy or not.

Let me ask. If it turns out that M3 V8 does Nordschleife in 8.11 min without R-tires (and RS4 does it in 8.09 min with R-tires) then you wont buy the M3 just because of a slower laptime?

PS, 997S does the ring in 8.05 min and I dont see how the M3 is going to top that.

 

[chonkoa]

Well, then Audi has done the better work with their RS4. And yes, I will convert into a RS enthusiast instead of a M enthusiast.
A lot of BMW fans is going to have sad day once sportauto tested the M3.

I hope the weight is not going to be 1610kg, but 60kg lighter, however if you still compare this to the B7 RS4, it does present a compelling case on paper of course:

Audi B7 RS4= 1795 kg with 420 HP giving you a weight to power ratio of 4.27 whilst
BMW E90 M3= 1610kg with 420 HP giving you a weight to power ratio of 3.83

 

[ILC32]

Let me ask. If it turns out that M3 V8 does Nordschleife in 8.11 min without R-tires (and RS4 does it in 8.09 min with R-tires) then you wont buy the M3 just because of a slower laptime?

PS, 997S does the ring in 8.05 min and I dont see how the M3 is going to top that.

I do not know what I would do. But this is what troubles me:

BMW knows the target. If R tires are necessary, BMW certainly can make R tires optional just as Audi did with the RS4, right? If ceramic brakes are necessary, BMW can offer those as well, as Audi has.

If BMW chooses not to offer the power, tires or brakes necessary to establish its new car as top dog on the Ring, which company is more hard core? Which is more focussed on the enthusiast driver? Which car is more compromised?

Interesting that you should mention the 997S. According to track challenge, it was tested with PS2 tires.

 

[Zafiro]

I do not know what I would do. But this is what troubles me:

BMW knows the target. If R tires are necessary, BMW certainly can make R tires optional just as Audi did with the RS4, right? If ceramic brakes are necessary, BMW can offer those as well, as Audi has.

If BMW chooses not to offer the power, tires or brakes necessary to establish its new car as top dog on the Ring, which company is more hard core? Which is more focussed on the enthusiast driver? Which car is more compromised?

Interesting that you should mention the 997S. According to track challenge, it was tested with PS2 tires.

but M3 also has a special version of M3, called M3 CSL. Audi dont offer a special version of RS4. BMW are saving all the goodies for upcoming M3 CSL. Thats what I think.

 

[ILC32]

but M3 also has a special version of M3, called M3 CSL. Audi dont offer a special version of RS4. BMW are saving all the goodies for upcoming M3 CSL. Thats what I think.

I think that would be a mistake, considering how limited and expensive the CSL will likely be, if history is any guide.

We are talking about GT3 money for the CSL, most likely. Far more than the price of the RS4.

At that point, why not just buy the GT3?

 

[Zafiro]

I think that would be a mistake, considering how limited and expensive the CSL will likely be, if history is any guide.

We are talking about GT3 money for the CSL, most likely. Far more than the price of the RS4.

At that point, why not just buy the GT3?

well in Sweden a M3 CSL was cheaper than a GT3, in fact it was cheaper than a base 911 Carrera.

and what you said, M3 is limited and it make it more exclusive than a Gt3 Also a M3 cSL is not a bad car but it miss the badge Porsche.

 

[Centurion]

As for R tires they make a gigantic difference. Compare the lap time for the E46 M3 and the CSL version. Although the CSL is lighter, has a bit more power the tires account mostly for the performance difference on tracks.
Weather or not the M3 has R-tires don't matter to me. I rather hope that the stock version won't have R-tires. I don't find R-tires to be necessary for every day use.

 

[ILC32]

well in Sweden a M3 CSL was . . . cheaper than a base 911 Carrera.

That is amazing.

No reason not to buy the CSL then for you!

 

[GTA45E]

I like it a lot, except one thing: My god that engine is ugly. I mean what the hell, I know technically it's a masterpiece but take some lessons of Audi and MB, they have "lesser engine's" look better.

Yep I agree, it looks very generic and umimpressive! ferthermore I always thought that V8s with a single air-intake were for lower end models with less power. The M3 should have two intakes. The powerdome is just too ugly and so is the rear diffuser, too much fuss with design back there!

besides the critical design factors this car should perform quit well. If the M3 manual get 4.8sec. from 0-62mph than the sec-clutch should be about 4.4sec. Thats about equal to it`s big brother the M5.

 

[ILC32]

As for R tires they make a gigantic difference. Compare the lap time for the E46 M3 and the CSL version. Although the CSL is lighter, has a bit more power the tires account mostly for the performance difference on tracks.

If tires make most of the 32 sec difference between the time for the CSL (7:50) and the time for the E46 M3 (8:22), then I guess with sport cups the E60 M5 would drop from 8:13 to under 7:50?

Or maybe not.

 

[Centurion]

If tires make most of the 32 sec difference between the time for the CSL (7:50) and the time for the E46 M3 (8:22), then I guess with sport cups the E60 M5 would drop from 8:13 to under 7:50?

Or maybe not.

Very possibly. Put ten years old tires on it and the lap time will drop even more. The lap time difference between the AMV8 with and without R-tires is 8 seconds. On a track tires make a much larger difference than what people think. Better tires = less slipping, better acceleration, shorter brake distance and allows you to take corners at much greater speeds.

 

[bmer]

Agh - I just can't get over the front air dam. I'm sure there's some practical concerns that ultimately shaped the piece, but it just looks clumsy and awkward when compared to the M5, M6 and the E92 aero kit.

That was my first reaction as well when I saw the spy pics that revealed the shape. Now I'm quite used to it.

 

[Zafiro]

As for R tires they make a gigantic difference. Compare the lap time for the E46 M3 and the CSL version. Although the CSL is lighter, has a bit more power the tires account mostly for the performance difference on tracks.

M3 E46 does the ring in 8.22 min and M3 CSL in 7.50 min and you dont cut 30 seconds by only adding R-tires, M3 CSL is more special and more built and focused towards track driving, BMW did a lot of changes with M3 CSL and they certainly didnt just add R-tires and whoops 30 seconds faster. Also M3 CSL had limited topspeed and that stopped the laptime to be even faster.
Even with non R-tires and delimited topspeed, the laptime would be below 8 minutes, approx 7.57 min.
Depending on car and on Nordschleife you can easily cut 5-10 seconds with R-tires but certainly not 30 seconds.

 

[Matt]

I really like the front air dam-i think its the best M has done so far. I was looking at the E46 and noticed that this car has the same size wheels-yet alot more rubber....Its 18" wheels but the its not all that low profile in terms of tire-which is good imo.

 

[Zafiro]

Remember the official photos for M3 E46, that car was also red (and same angles it appears).

View attachment c03dda43916a9f0a9d636b5e1432c871.jpg

 

[markwm]

Does nothing at all for me, looks wise.

RS4 not only looks better from the outside but the interior shown in these pics doesn't look half as a good as the RS4 interior.

 

[rev]

I don't know about you guys, but to me, the E92 M3 doesn't look as spectacular as the E46 M3. It looks kinda boring.