1 Series Next Generation 1-Series Thread (Spy pics, Info & Impressions)

[SCOTT27]

"Previous" X3.

 

[klier]

Ah, ok. Well, the new X3 is lighter than the old X3, yet quite a bit bigger. I truly hope the same counts for the F30 vs E90. Only 1 gram more than E90 will be considered an epic failure by me.

 

[Zafiro]

How can BMW afford to the make the new cars lighter?
BMW doesn't have the purchasing power like VAG ...

 

[klier]

^ Such a weird post. Like VAG's purchasing power has anything to do with BMW making the F30 lighter than E90. I know what you're getting at, but you're reaching now.

Purchasing power is a trending topic here on germancarforum.com, I know, but a lot of other factors come into play too. Like engineering skills, better machines for mass production of lightweight materials and new know-how. Just to name some random factors.

 

[Mr Robert]

The cars have to become lighter and this will be so important, that other things will have to stand back.

Be nice now A ;-)

 

[klier]

Yes D I will

I won't stay nice if the F30 becomes heaver though.

 

[SCOTT27]

Whilst everybody else was throwing money at vanity projects some which are profitable and some which are not.
BMW invested in it's future. Not just the latest Four Cylinder petrol and diesel powerplants.
But Ideally in the development of a single modular structure that can be adapted to a range of models across it's core priority segments maintaining a unique seperate style and individual driving dynamics.

By using this strategy BMW can increase it's 1er/3er Profit margins and introduce a wide range of choices for the customer therefore increasing the core 1er/3er profit per vehicle therefore securing BMW's future.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Whilst everybody else was throwing money at vanity projects some which are profitable and some which are not.

If they're profitable then why are they "vanity projects"?

And "everybody else"? Good grief, I know you work for BMW but this endless promotion and constant "BMW is right, everybody else is wrong" mantra is very tedious. It's like being in a 24 hour advert for BMW.

Simple thing is, by not providing vehicles for certain markets BMW are losing loyal customers. There is still a demand for serious performance cars. I went to Audi. And I love BMW. What do you think is MORE likely when I change my R8 V10 in the distant future? I'm going to replace it with a BMW or take the logical option and replace it with another Audi? I'm not interested in a "green" supercar. People like that still exist you know.

 

[Zafiro]

I wish they started with lightweight earlier hence the new 5/6-series. Its a massive 100-150 kg more than previous generation. Noway they are cutting 100 kg on the new M5.

 

[Giannis]

BMW invested in it's future.

Which can clearly be seen at the F10's weight figures

 

[Mr Robert]

Yes D I will

I won't stay nice if the F30 becomes heaver though.

No need to stay nice then ;-)

Weight-saving is crucial, as weight is the most important part of getting consumption as low as possible. Everyone knows it and as soon as more manufacturers have implemented their solutions, Audi will not be alone out there marketing their cars a "lightweight solutions for the future".

 

[EnI]

I'm not interested in a "green" supercar. People like that still exist you know.

They do NOW. But they are certainly NOT THE FUTURE! In the business is a long-distance run. Sometimes you have to scarify a bit of the present - for the better future. And that's what happening right now.

Also: as said many times. BMW can't afford something Audi or even MB can - due to either having mighty parents (VAG), or siblings who make additional revenues (Daimler commercial vehicles). Revenues do count.

IMO BMW would do much better with a HEALTHY mass car brand / maker in portfolio. Being that a passenger vehicle brand, or a commercial vehicle one. But it's certainly a double sided sward. Remember Rover? Or Daimler's adventure in Chrysler & even Mitsubishi? And even VAG has it's burden - it's called SEAT. Fortunately they hit the jackpot with Skoda. And the core VW brand is also a very healthy & mighty one!

In that aspect Audi is in better position: that can afford more. Not even scarifying the present when investing into the future. That will certainly pay off for them, and they are a very likely #1 premium brand of the future. If not in the mere sales numbers themselves, but certainly in product image (if not also in brand image sometimes). That's their aim, their goal - and they will reach it for sure. Because they can. They have the know-how, they have the money, and they have the (eg. purchasing) power & all the support of the mighty parent (VAG). Their future seems to be easier than eg. BMW's or MB's one - which will be forced into various partial cooperations & joint-ventures with other carmakers. While Audi can do all of that in-house.

I went to Audi. And I love BMW.

Therefore I'm sure there will be even more migrations form MB & BMW to Audi in the future. Especially in some segments. They can share eg. low-end engines with VW, Skoda, Seat etc, while high-end can be shared with Porsche, Bentley, even Lambo and in some cases even VW. Not to mention VW also own Suzuki / Maruti, and is eying Alfa Romeo. Plenty of sharing options.

Not to mention eg. Porsche know-how now being transfered to Audi as well. Audi has a very bright future!

Sure BMW are not always right. Eg. they've learned a lesson that people still care for perceived quality more then they do for more individual design. Something Audi have got it right, while BMW haven't - and now addressing the issue.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

They do NOW. But they are certainly NOT THE FUTURE! In the business is a long-distance run. Sometimes you have to scarify a bit of the present - for the better future. And that's what happening right now.

Also: as said many times. BMW can't afford something Audi or even MB can - due to either having mighty parents (VAG), or siblings who make additional revenues (Daimler commercial vehicles). Revenues do count.

IMO BMW would do much better with a HEALTHY mass car brand / maker in portfolio. Being that a passenger vehicle brand, or a commercial vehicle one. But it's certainly a double sided sward. Remember Rover? Or Daimler's adventure in Chrysler & even Mitsubishi? And even VAG has it's burden - it's called SEAT. Fortunately they hit the jackpot with Skoda. And the core VW brand is also a very healthy & mighty one!

In that aspect Audi is in better position: that can afford more. Not even scarifying the present when investing into the future. That will certainly pay off for them, and they are a very likely #1 premium brand of the future. If not in the mere sales numbers themselves, but certainly in product image (if not also in brand image sometimes). That's their aim, their goal - and they will reach it for sure. Because they can. They have the know-how, they have the money, and they have the (eg. purchasing) power & all the support of the mighty parent (VAG). Their future seems to be easier than eg. BMW's or MB's one - which will be forced into various partial cooperations & joint-ventures with other carmakers. While Audi can do all of that in-house.




Therefore I'm sure there will be even more migrations form MB & BMW to Audi in the future. Especially in some segments. They can share eg. low-end engines with VW, Skoda, Seat etc, while high-end can be shared with Porsche, Bentley, even Lambo and in some cases even VW. Not to mention VW also own Suzuki / Maruti, and is eying Alfa Romeo. Plenty of sharing options.

Not to mention eg. Porsche know-how now being transfered to Audi as well. Audi has a very bright future!

Sure BMW are not always right. Eg. they've learned a lesson that people still care for perceived quality more then they do for more individual design. Something Audi have got it right, while BMW haven't - and now addressing the issue.

Thanks for the balanced and un-biased response.

 

[Mr Robert]

Therefore I'm sure there will be even more migrations form MB & BMW to Audi in the future. Especially in some segments.

Not to mention eg. Porsche know-how now being transfered to Audi as well. Audi has a very bright future!

I agree; up until recently, Audi has been half a step behind BMW and MB, but not anymore. Audi has taken the "sporty" image from BMW and the "quality" image from MB. Not saying that this is in fact true, but peoples perception of the brands have changed, a lot.

 

[EnI]

Sure Audi image has risen ... But MB & BMW are not trailing behind at all. After MB quality issues & BMW design experiment era, their respected image is getting better again. Especially in the markets where thy lost the most: in European markets.

US: MB & BMW are catching up with Lexus finally, battling for the #1 spot in US luxury market ... while Audi is still lagging behind, not being able to make any serious breakthrough.

China: MB & BMW are catching up with Audi quicker than VAG anticipated. Investment in new sales & production facilities MB & BMW are making are paying off already. Not to mention that BMW has a HUGE image cache in Chinese market. Much greater one that Audi has. That's really not a good news for Audi.

So, sure Audi has best chances due being a part of VAG. But that doesn't make it a winner without any serious battle. BMW & MB are not just going to surrender. It's going to be a fierce fight. In every market. And there will be different winners in different markets. But globally? With the forthcoming new models all three have a chance to be a winner. It depends on category though: sales, profit, product image, brand image etc.

Bu still ... with strong MINI portfolio BMW AG will for sure stay the largest premium carmaker. Unless VAG acquires Alfa Romeo or / and expand Porsche models beyond limits. Then VAG will be #1. And I'm sure Piech is going for both titles: largest carmaker & largest premium carmaker.

 

[martinbo]

Right. Just to recap; we've all seen this:



So can we let the cat out the bag already?

 

[braaf]

^ Such a weird post. Like VAG's purchasing power has anything to do with BMW making the F30 lighter than E90. I know what you're getting at, but you're reaching now.

Purchasing power is a trending topic here on germancarforum.com, I know, but a lot of other factors come into play too. Like engineering skills, better machines for mass production of lightweight materials and new know-how. Just to name some random factors.

Well said Klier. I was also confused when I read that post.

 

[braaf]

IMO BMW would do much better with a HEALTHY mass car brand / maker in portfolio.

Which brand would you prefer Eni. I always felt that BMW should've bought Opel. They have alot of potential and with BMW know how they could have maybe achieved greatness again.

 

[bmer]

Alfa Romeo, just to piss Piech off. j/k

 

[EnI]

Which brand would you prefer Eni. I always felt that BMW should've bought Opel. They have alot of potential and with BMW know how they could have maybe achieved greatness again.

Opel sounds perfect. It's German - so there wont be any corporate cultural shocks. Although Opel is limited to Euro markets mainly. PSA can also be a viable option.

But that's just a hypothetical debate ... ... In a wrong thread.