New M DCT dual clutch transmission by BMW

[Zafiro]

shifter lights?

 

[Merc1]

Reading BMW's technical briefs are always fun. Anyway once you remove all the fluffy boasts you're left with an impressive piece of technology. I gotta give it to BMW in engines/transmissions setups they're leading the industry in the luxury sector IMO. Audi has the same technolgy and yet won't put it in anything bigger than a 4-cylinder and one 6-cylinder, at least in the U.S. market. Lexus and Mercedes seem content on perfecting the traditional automatic transmission. Now the question becomes where is Porsche's version of a DCT gearbox?


M

 

[PanterroR]

Now the question becomes where is Porsche's version of a DCT gearbox?

Coming with Panamera afaik...

 

[Zafiro]

Car & Driver has tested both M5 with SMG and Manual. Not in same conditions though. But this numbers might give us a hint how much more effective DCT will be during acceleration than a Manual M3.

Here you can see how much faster a M5 is with SMG than with a standard gearbox:

 

[Merc1]

The manual M5 is one of the few instances where BMW just half-arsed did something. We asked for it and we got it.

M

 

[CorpusCallosum]

The manual M5 is one of the few instances where BMW just half-arsed did something. We asked for it and we got it.

M

Goes to show, if your going to a job do it the right way not the half/a$$ way!!!!

 

[Mr Robert]

shifter lights?

Or a lowered rev. limiter for when the engine is cold?

 

[Sunny]

Or a lowered rev. limiter for when the engine is cold?

I think that function is served by the red line marker itself, which I believe actually moves as the engine warms up. Also that would have been relevant in the MT version, but I don't think the cars with the MT has those lights.

 

[klier]

The manual M5 is one of the few instances where BMW just half-arsed did something. We asked for it and we got it.

M

Yes you did. If we in Europe would have been asking for a true 6-speed M5, we would have gotten a real new perfect gearbox for that V10.

BMW doesn't care enough about the U.S.

 

[Merc1]

Yes you did. If we in Europe would have been asking for a true 6-speed M5, we would have gotten a real new perfect gearbox for that V10.

BMW doesn't care enough about the U.S.

Well I wouldn't say that with all the sales they have here. I always figured it was rushed for 2 reasons, the V10 wasn't design to be paired with a manual and secondly they didn't plan on selling it anywhere else so the volume was too small to warrant an all-out development program for a manual.

You could say that because they even tried to put this combo together means they hear the U.S. BMW enthusiast and cared enough to at least try to appease.

M

 

[bmer]

Yes you did. If we in Europe would have been asking for a true 6-speed M5, we would have gotten a real new perfect gearbox for that V10.

BMW doesn't care enough about the U.S.

I don't think that's the case. The US is biggest market for M-cars AFAIK. The S85 just wasn't engineered to be matched to a manual so I don't think they could've done any better work even if European customers demanded a manual. Just look at the manual in the new M3, it has been criticized a lot even the engine was designed to work with it.

 

[Zafiro]

Regarding M5, the problem that DCS couldnt be deactivated with Manual has now been solved.

 

[Sunny]

M3 and M5 and even 550 uses the same 6 speed afaik. The problem is the V10 is much more peakeir than the V8 - probably cause it was always intended to work with the 7 speed SMG. Nothing to do with Europe or US.

 

[Porsche Guy]

I understand why SMG has shift speeds in manual mode but I don't see the need for it with this DCT transmission. I've driven an A3 with DSG and it was much faster than an M5 in S6 (i've driven an M5 on numerous occasions). It was so smooth I had to double check the RPM gauge to make sure I had actually shifted. I don't see the point of having different shift speeds if the system is similar to VW's DSG.

 

[Alwing]

I wonder if this new BMW "M DCT" transmission is the same as the new Mercedes' "AMG MCT" transmission, available in the new facelifted SL63 and SL65 AMG.

The reason why I'm wondering about this is because BMW co-developed the transmission with a German manufacturer/supplier named Getrag GmbH.
As far as I know, Mercedes was also seeking a supplier/partnership for a dual clutch transmission. The two potential company/supplier was named back then, it was Getrag and ZF.

And since BMW called their dual clutch transmission "M DCT" and Mercedes their new transmission "AMG MCT". I figured those names sounded very familiar, it could be coincidence though. Aside of that both "M DCT" and "AMG MCT" transmissions have 7 gears. Both are for their top of the line perfomance models, the BMW M-series and the Mercedes AMG-series.
Though the Mercedes MCT is not yet confirmed as a dual clutch transmission yet officially but according to the website (which is taken offline by the way), it will have the sportyness and directness comparable to a manual transmission.

Another interesting thing is that Getrag named their new dual clutch transmission "Powershift" on their website. And Mercedes is calling their new transmission "AMG Speedshift MCT". Names with similarities once again.

And wasn't also a thing going on between BMW and Mercedes concerning a possible collaboration concerning R&D to save costs?
Any possible relations, just wondering.

 

[bmer]

I wonder if this new BMW "M DCT" transmission is the same as the new Mercedes' "AMG MCT" transmission, available in the new facelifted SL63 and SL65 AMG.

The reason why I'm wondering about this is because BMW co-developed the transmission with a German manufacturer/supplier named Getrag GmbH.
As far as I know, Mercedes was also seeking a supplier/partnership for a dual clutch transmission. The two potential company/supplier was named back then, it was Getrag and ZF.

And since BMW called their dual clutch transmission "M DCT" and Mercedes their new transmission "AMG MCT". I figured those names sounded very familiar, it could be coincidence though. Aside of that both "M DCT" and "AMG MCT" transmissions have 7 gears. Both are for their top of the line perfomance models, the BMW M-series and the Mercedes AMG-series.
Though the Mercedes MCT is not yet confirmed as a dual clutch transmission yet officially but according to the website (which is taken offline by the way), it will have the sportyness and directness comparable to a manual transmission.

Another interesting thing is that Getrag named their new dual clutch transmission "Powershift" on their website. And Mercedes is calling their new transmission "AMG Speedshift MCT". Names with similarities once again.

And wasn't also a thing going on between BMW and Mercedes concerning a possible collaboration concerning R&D to save costs?
Any possible relations, just wondering.

You can't conclude much from the names. Similarities don't automatically mean they actually have something in common (eg. Steptronic, Autotronic). I'm not even sure what's the official name for BMW's new transmission. Some sources say "M DKG" which is dual-clutch transmission in German, others "M DCT" (DCT = Dual-Clutch Transmission). Maybe EnI or Scott can tell us which company developed this transmission. It may have been Getrag or ZF or perhaps even some other transmission specialist (LuK, BorgWarner etc.)
I think we will have to wait until we now for sure if the AMG MCT is indeed a DCT and if it's MB's own transmission or made by an outside company.

 

[Zafiro]

Reading the pressrelese its DCT.

The M Double-Clutch Transmission with Drivelogic.

 

[bmer]

Reading the pressrelese its DCT.

The M Double-Clutch Transmission with Drivelogic.

So they did choose the general term as the name for the transmission. If they had used the same logic for automatic transmissions, they would be called "Automatic Transmission" instead of "Steptronic"

Is it called "M DCT" in all markets or do they use "M DKG" in German-speaking countries?

 

[Cashmere]

Yes it's true that SMG tansmissions are very good. Im quite fond of them too, but there's certain things which the SMG will never do for me which I enjoy doing whenver Im driving e.g. Rev match downshifting and heel 'n toe. I know the SMG can do the rev match down shift at the gently pull of the paddle but I just love doing it myself. That is all I meant by the joys of manual being irreplaceable.

btw, I think I have missed all the articles with the manual transmission criticisms. Can anyone post some links?

Thanks

 

[bmer]

I just checked the German and Spanish press releases. In the German press release they call it "M Doppelkupplungsgetriebe mit Drivelogic" without using abbreviation like "M DKG" even once. In the Spanish press release it's called "Caja de cambios M con doble embrague y Drivelogic". They don't use any abbreviation either.