Most Disliked Luxury Brand

[Bruce]

Hmmm. Honestly, It's a hard choice... And taking the entirety of the brand (history, line up, design, etc) into consideration makes it even harder.

BMW:

Ermm...BMW as a whole is a rocking brand. Though as I pretty much despise the entirety of their current line up, I just about voted for them...but then I rememered the Z8, the E39, the E46, the 8er and just couldn't...

Lexus:

Now, unlike many others in this thread, I am (rather obviously) a Lexus fan. I have a deep admiration for the the manufacturer's earlier models such as the first generation LS, the first generation SC amongst a few others. They are quite honestly, some of my favourite cars of all time. That being said, I am majorly unimpressed with newer Lexus models.

Starting in the late 1990's to be specific...Loved the second Generation GS, and liked the first Generation IS - but was offended (probably by the best word) by the RX and the following generation of LS' and ES'. And especially, the SC430. I hate that thing with a passion. Couldn't tell you how betrayed I felt about what the SC has turned into. Now-a-days, Lexus really only has two models that I really like; the LS and the IS.

Nevertheless, if I take the entirety of the Lexus brand into consideration, I just cannot vote for Lexus.

Acura:

Ummm.. Well, I loved early generation Acura's (NSX, RL, Legend, Vigor) but pretty much dislike everything they sell these days. This is a strong consideration for the vote...

Cadillac:

I will certainly acknowledge Cadillac's history, but can't seem to ignore many of their 80's and 90's blunders. My God did they have some awful vehicles. Today Cadillac is better than ever, but I don't find them to be appealing to be honest.

Infiniti:

Indifferent - not a great fan, but I don't really dislike them either. That being said, I am a great fan of the first generation FX.

Jaguar:

Again...taken as a whole, one cannot ignore the many greats that the brand has created. The XJ220...the XK120...the XKSS. Though, from the 80's and up (XJ220 excluded), I honestly cannot stand Jaguar models.

Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche:

Nothing to dislike.

So...I feel it would be impossible to vote for any of these brands as a whole. If we're taking about current line up, my vote would go to either Jaguar, Acura, BMW, or Cadillac.

 

[Merc1]

Honestly Bruce I feel pretty much the same way as you do about most of the brands you listed. Good post.

The first LS and SC were and still are Lexus' most memorable cars. The current IS is the only Lexus have any real liking for and to some degree the LS, the 460 that is, never the 600 which is a overhyped/waste IMO. I also liked the first generation GS, the GS300. Kinda slow, but I really liked that car back when.

First generation Acuras were the thing too and that last Legend GS sedan and coupe were favorites of mine.

We only differ greatly on Infiniti, Jaguar and BMW. Jaguar has now gotten rid of the dead weight, X and S-Types in the U.S. so now IMO have a worthy, gorgeous lineup.

M

 

[rev]

I was wondering why Volvo and Saab are not included in that list? Aren't they considered as luxury brands? I don't believe they're less luxurious than Acura, Infiniti etc.

 

[Bruce]

Honestly Bruce I feel pretty much the same way as you do about most of the brands you listed. Good post.

Thanks Marcus.

The first LS and SC were and still are Lexus' most memorable cars.

Most definitely. My dad owned both an LS400 and SC400 through the 90's and absolutely loved them (I'm biased you see )

...never the 600 which is a overhyped/waste IMO

Agreed.

I also liked the first generation GS, the GS300. Kinda slow, but I really liked that car back when.

Ditto!

First generation Acuras were the thing too and that last Legend GS sedan and coupe were favorites of mine.

Agreed yet again.


P.S - and thanks to those who left kinds words towards me.

 

[Gullwing]

I hate... dislike... have a deep seated loathing for Lexus the most.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Re: Most Hated Luxury Brand

Have you sat in or driven a new CTS?

It has come a long way, far better than any lexus I have sat in. Prime leather supple to the touch, handsome wood details, and a performance to match the Germans. Cadillac is by far one of my favourites now after the Germans.

Nope, to be honest the last cadillac i sat in was an SLS.

 

[Tumbo]

Very easy for me here:

Cadillac

The think they are something, but their handling, and especially the interior sucks big time.

 

[bmer]

I believe this song matches the ambiance in this thread very well

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[BMW///MPower]

Easy, Lexus is not even a real brand....

 

[Deleted member 182]

Easy, Lexus is not even a real brand....

And Acura and Infiniti are?

IMO, Lexus makes much more effort than these two to make their cars stand out. Acura's are really just debadged Hondas and Infiniti's are ... well just plain ugly.

 

[SDNR]

^ Of course Lexus is a real Brand. A brand is essentially a concept (intellectual property) -- otherwise we could argue that Smart, Maybach, Rolls-Royce, Audi, Lamborghini, etc., are not real brands either.

 

[Merc1]

I don't see how anyone could think Inifnitis are ugly. The G37 Coupe especially is likely the best looking car to come out of Japan in quite some time, IMO.

M

 

[Mr Robert]

I don't see how anyone could think Inifnitis are ugly. The G37 Coupe especially is likely the best looking car to come out of Japan in quite some time, IMO.

M

Well, I agree that it is one of the best looking cars to come out of Japan for some time, but still... the front end is adorable while the rear screams "I have come from the 90's to haunt you!".... and that simply does not cut it...

 

[Yperion]

I was between Lexus and Acura but after thinking for a while i voted for Acura.

I don't like Lexus as they are not even close to be considered true luxury automobiles in my book (for example some of the grey leather , wood and aluminium combinations in their interiors are horrible and kitch) , but i believe that Acura is even worse since the same models are sold as Hondas in European markets and that makes me rate them as wannabies.

 

[Choleric]

Well, I agree that it is one of the best looking cars to come out of Japan for some time, but still... the front end is adorable while the rear screams "I have come from the 90's to haunt you!".... and that simply does not cut it...

It's funny though... at least here more people dislike Audi than Infiniti.

 

[bum-man]

^ While I wouldn't rank an Infinity above an Audi one thing that has always annoyed me about them is that they still offer FWD. There is nothing luxurious about torque steer in a FWD A8, and that is one thing you will never experience in any modern Infinity.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

I think we know which way this poll is going to go, Lexus by a landslide.

Not suprising considering the voting pool on GCF is predominantly European.

There's a difference between an unappreciation of a brand, and an obvious blind-bias against one. Quite comical reading any discussion on here relating to a Japanese brand, especially when talking about Lexus and Toyota.

Comical on some occasions... and downright pathetic at other times. But each to his own I guess...

 

[modena_360stradale]

Lexus by far. I almost want to say they're worthless imitators.

• Mercedes came out with a 7 Speed transmission, Lexus came out with an 8.
• BMW has been working on self-parking for years, Lexus threw a system that was garbage into theirs.
• Mercedes has had auto-wipers for years, Lexus recently began advertising them as if they had invented them.
• Mercedes reintroduced the world to hardtop convertibles, Lexus jumped on board, advertising the SC as if it were a gift from the Lexus gods.
• And thanks to Lexus (Toyota), no one in the world knows what the word "Hybrid" means anymore.

As dogmatic and ridiculous as it may sound, they're not true luxury cars. And that's what kills it. Instead of presenting their products as merely 'desirable', they represent them as true competitors to Mercedes and BMW.

I never hated Lexus, and originally thought the LS and GS were handsome cars, until I sat in them. -- Unfortunately nothing seems to beat the fit and finish of a Mercedes or BMW. And no one quite gets the interior or exterior proportions of cars like they do either.

Lexus just seems, by and far, like a 2nd place runner in the luxury car world.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Lexus by far. They're worthless imitators.

• Mercedes came out with a 7 Speed transmission, Lexus came out with an 8.

• 
  
  So I guess going on that line of thinking Mercedes copied whoever debuted a 6 Speed transmission. Silly argument... it's called progression and competition. One company introduces something, and another company tries to better it. How is Lexus an 'imitator' here? If anything, they've outdone Mercedes and BMW and everyone by introducing the world's first 8 Speed tranny. I guess when MB does finally introduce an 8-speed of their own you'll be happy to admit MB are being 'imitators'.
  
  
  

  [*]BMW has been working on self-parking for years, Lexus threw a system that was garbage into theirs.

  
  So I guess by following that logic every other car company is a 'worthless imitator' because they copied MB in producing vehicles. And also, BMW's being 'working on' this technology, but have they yet brought this into production? Don't get me wrong, I'm a BMW fan, but I don't let that blind me to simple common-sense. It may be garbage, but it was developed and it does mostly work. Just like many still say that i-Drive is 'garbage', but BMW was still one of the first to bring the i-Drive concept into production..... but I don't hear you saying MB and Audi are 'worthless imitators'.
  
  
  

  [*]Mercedes has had auto-wipers for years, Lexus recently began advertising them as if they had invented them.

  
  Yeh, it's called marketing. Go do a quick wiki search on what marketing involves and you'll soon come to realise that in the world of marketing, it's not what you've done that matters, it's what you can make the consumer believe you've done. A couple of years ago I had that exact same fanboy/immature attitude about Lexus when one day I saw a billboard advertisement promoting how the Lexus RX now features headlights which 'look around the corner'. I kept on thinking how the E60 5er had debuted with that technology at least a year before the RX had it...... BUT... as I said, that's an immature way of thinking of it. If Lexus is clever enough to actually invest marketing dollars/euros into putting emphasis on these features, then it is the other company's fault for not doing the same thing earlier to let consumer's know who truely brought such a technology to the automotive world. If BMW didn't put enough effort to promote Adaptive Headlight Technology, then it's their fault because it's an opportunity missed. Lexus saw this opportunity....and used the right channels to make consumers aware of the technology. Let's get one thing straight, Lexus never actually claimed to have invented the technology, they've just marketed in such a way that you (and any ordinary consumer) would form the impression that they did invent it. Remember, it's not what you actually did, it's what you can make people believe you did. In other words, marketing at an advertising level is all about smokes and mirrors. Marketers and magicians.. they're one and the same. They make you believe things which aren't really there. All in the mind.....
  
  
  
  

  [*]Mercedes reintroduced the world to hardtop convertibles, Lexus jumped on board, advertising the SC as if it were a gift from the Lexus gods.

  
  Gotta love them marketers! David Copperfield eat your heart out...
  
  
  

  [*]And thanks to Lexus (Toyota), no one in the world knows what the word "Hybrid" means anymore.

Well I sure don't see the other manufacturers trying to convey the 'true' meaning of the 'Hybrid'. Which part of any of the Toyota & Lexus hybrid vehicles aren't actually hybrids? In it's simplest form, a hybrid is simply combining two or more things/technologies into something new. Petrol + Electric = Hybrid..... or have I missed something?
It's no suprise that many people in Europe have next to no appreciation for Toyota's hybrids, especially the Prius. But let's not beat a dead horse there...

... I'm guessing the only real problem you have with the Toyota/Lexus hybrids is how they've been marketed as a technology that will turn every road into a beautiful patch of green grass and yellow daisies. Again, refer to my point about marketing above and that should smoothen that chip on your shoulder that you have for Toyota/Lexus.
Toyota/Lexus put a lot of resources into marketing. Many might argue that Toyota/Lexus have to resort to marketing to mask their shortcomings, or to make the brand appear to be something which is truely isn't. If that's your real problem with Toyota/Lexus, then feel free to complain about it to any marketer...they'll smile and say 'well if the consumer is gullible enough to believe it, then why not?'..... and if you think that's not ethical... well, you just need to remember that this is the business world we're talking about. BMW and MB and Audi invest in new niche models to increase their profitability, others reduce their prices.. others do something else.. in this case Toyota/Lexus invest in marketing to get their cars out of their dealerships...because the company's reputation and long-existing reliability sell themselves.

Oh what a feeling some of you guys must get whenever you see a Toyota or Lexus in your sights. Makes me smile seeing so many people get so immaturely worked-up over the magic act that is Marketing...especially when the words Toyota or Lexus are the focal points of their frustrated minds.

 

[modena_360stradale]

Silly argument... it's called progression and competition. One company introduces something, and another company tries to better it. How is Lexus an 'imitator' here? If anything, they've outdone Mercedes and BMW and everyone by introducing the world's first 8 Speed tranny. I guess when MB does finally introduce an 8-speed of their own you'll be happy to admit MB are being 'imitators'.

Let's not start slinging mud. The contention is that the 8 speed was a response to the Mercedes 7 speed. It was unnecessary at best, and was less a technical innovation than a 'look, mine is bigger than yours.'

In regards to the 6 speed: Mercedes didn't come out with a 7 speed transmission as a response to another manufacturer coming out with a 6. Mercedes did, however, come out with the 7 speed because they thought it would be a 'green' innovation.

The 8 gear system wasn't made because it was 'better', it wasn't made because it was an 'advancement' in technology, it was made as a boasting point pure and simple.

BMW's being 'working on' this technology, but have they yet brought this into production? Don't get me wrong, I'm a BMW fan, but I don't let that blind me to simple common-sense

Two things:

1) The argument, again, was that Lexus' action/development was an "I got it first" response to what BMW was doing. No original thinking there.

2) They released a lousy system onto the market because of it. (See three quotes down)

many still say that i-Drive is 'garbage', but BMW was still one of the first to bring the i-Drive concept into production..... but I don't hear you saying MB and Audi are 'worthless imitators'.

I only have so much space in which to write. And I've always admitted to Mercedes' technical, stylistic, etc. shortcomings or 'bandwagon-ing' -- especially in the last 15 years.

Not to forget: whether or not I acknowledge Mercedes' imitation of i-Drive is irrelevant to whether or not Lexus imitates its competition.

Your point is moot.

Yeh, it's called marketing. Go do a quick wiki search on what marketing involves and you'll soon come to realise that in the world of marketing, it's not what you've done that matters, it's what you can make the consumer believe you've done.

This doesn't negate the fact that Lexus imitated them. And Lexus' marketing prowess hardly vindicates their duplicity.

A couple of years ago I had that exact same fanboy/immature attitude about Lexus when one day I saw a billboard advertisement promoting how the Lexus RX now features headlights which 'look around the corner'.

Do we really need to be this vile? Seems parts of your 'fanboy' attitude are still manifesting themselves; albeit from different causes.

But: This demonstrates again how Lexus imitated the competition: they saw an innovation, copied it and rushed it to market.

The only time where seeing and copying an idea are laudable is if what is 'copied' is an inspiration for 'something greater.' Copying and pasting an idea, however, is hardly 'something greater.' Hence my disapproval of Lexus.

Well I sure don't see the other manufacturers trying to convey the 'true' meaning of the 'Hybrid'. Which part of any of the Toyota & Lexus hybrid vehicles aren't actually hybrids?

As I recall, the argument was simply 'no one knows the meaning of "hybrid" anymore.'

The problem here is that soccer moms and environmental groups believe 'hybrid' to mean 'any car that gets 40+ miles per gallon' and is 'green'. Because of this, they consider the Escalade hybrid an 'oxymoron.'

Unfortunately for them, a hybrid is anything that joins two unlike things. A tank can be a hybrid, an SUV can be a hybrid, and oranges can be hybrids.

If that's your real problem with Toyota/Lexus, then feel free to complain about it to any marketer...they'll smile and say 'well if the consumer is gullible enough to believe it, then why not?'..... and if you think that's not ethical... well, you just need to remember that this is the business world we're talking about.

Not to quibble about the status of metaethics, but morality doesn't change as you move around the spheres of public and private life

Right is right and A is A, remember. Those are, after all, the basic axioms of ontology and life, aren't they?