Mercedes Vision EQXX

[Sunny]

You won't believe it, but I think sub 3 sec 0-100 times in a car like a Model S is idiotic. And frankly dangerous with all those soccer moms in them.

Thanks for the opportunity to quote myself -

BMW, Mercedes - announces 400 HP family sedans. GCF - fap, fap fap....
BMW, Mercedes - announces 500 HP family sedans. GCF - fap, fap fap....
BMW, Mercedes - announces 600 HP family sedans. GCF - fap, fap fap....
BMW, Mercedes - announces 700 HP family sedans. GCF - fap, fap fap....
Tesla - announces 1000 HP family sedan. GCF - No, no, no. We have to be responsible citizens of this world!

Of course we will also ignore the part where only <2% of the Teslas sold do sub 3 sec 0-100., And the rest of the 98% is just sane, practical efficient boring daily transportation devices.

 

[klier]

Thanks for the opportunity to quote myself -

Yeah, but a 400 hp BMW is made to drive well, not to only go fast in a straight line. Hence my "in a car like a Model S", which means a car that doesn't drive dynamic nor is fun to drive. A 400 hp BMW is both quick and engaging.
But don't worry I do get your drift.

Oh well, I don't even know why we're having this conversation. You're actively trying to provoke with one sided statements. You getting exceedingly good too at it so bravo there.

 

[Sunny]

You're actively trying to provoke with one sided statements.

Curious, what did I specifically say that was provocative?

Yeah, but a 400 hp BMW is made to drive well, not to only go fast in a straight line. Hence my "in a car like a Model S", which means a car that doesn't drive dynamic nor is fun to drive. A 400 hp BMW is both quick and engaging.

I think that is mis perception you have. I haven't driven in a 1000hp EV. But I have driven couple of different 600 and 700 HP ones. They are easier to drive and live with than a 400HP ICE BMW. And I honestly not saying that to provoke anyone. It is what it is.

 

[Merc1]

How is an EV easier to drive than a BMW? What's difficult about driving a BMW?

M

 

[Sunny]

How is an EV easier to drive than a BMW? What's difficult about driving a BMW?

M

Effortlessness, throttle response, traction.

 

[Merc1]

Effortlessness, throttle response, traction.

Yeah I don't agree that those things make it "easier" to drive. Just more appliance like, no soul. I don't every recall driving a BMW being a chore of difficult, provided you like to drive.

M

 

[Sunny]

Yeah I don't agree that those things make it "easier" to drive. Just more appliance like, no soul. I don't every recall driving a BMW being a chore of difficult, provided you like to drive.

M

Drive a good decent EV for a day and go back to a ICE, you will hate coming to a stop sign. At least I did.

On the flip side, drive on a good twisty road, EVs are not that fun. Will take a NA + manual any day for that.

But none of that is context here. I was responding to Klier's claims of powerful EVs being somehow more dangerous than powerful ICEV. They are really not.

 

[LaArtist]

Drive a good decent EV for a day and go back to a ICE, you will hate coming to a stop sign. At least I did.

On the flip side, drive on a good twisty road, EVs are not that fun. Will take a NA + manual any day for that.

But none of that is context here. I was responding to Klier's claims of powerful EVs being somehow more dangerous than powerful ICEV. They are really not.

The man is not lying, for anything under a proper sports car / M/AMG toy you are waaaay better off with an ev. All dailys, taxis busses trucks etc should be electric, there is no joy in a 320 or c200.. sorry to say

 

[Merc1]

The man is not lying, for anything under a proper sports car / M/AMG toy you are waaaay better off with an ev. All dailys, taxis busses trucks etc should be electric, there is no joy in a 320 or c200.. sorry to say

I would agree with this but we aren’t to be given a choice. I think everything you named, all workhorse vehicles should be forced to make the switch first as they pollute far more anyways. Thing is they’re going to wrench your ICE vehicle out your hands at some point. Either by force or taxes depending on where u live.

Owning an old EV is going to be the worst shit ever with its degraded battery that costs a fortune to replace.

M

 

[Deleted member 57437]

Owning an old EV is going to be the worst shit ever with its degraded battery that costs a fortune to replace.

M

Perhaps one of the most significant changes regarding automobiles will be the ownership model. Whether it be leasing, rental, sharing, rental subscription, et al, the concept of actually purchasing a car and genuinely owning it may be destined for absolute obsolescence. As is the dealership model that we've known for several generations. Online optioning/upgrading at will become an ever increasing source of income for manufacturers. Depreciation will no longer be a significant consideration for the customer. And the charm of genuine ownership will be confined to valuable classic automobiles. In that sense, automobiles will become increasingly readily disposable products.

 

[klier]

The man is not lying, for anything under a proper sports car / M/AMG toy you are waaaay better off with an ev. All dailys, taxis busses trucks etc should be electric, there is no joy in a 320 or c200.. sorry to say

The BMW I6 still gives joy but yeah, 100% agreed. A 320i is just sad. So much potential ruined by a lawnmower 4 pot.
M240i is the base for joy at BMW.

I think that is mis perception you have. I haven't driven in a 1000hp EV. But I have driven couple of different 600 and 700 HP ones. They are easier to drive and live with than a 400HP ICE BMW.

I would rephrase that to not more difficult to drive, or evenly matched. A BMW with automatic gearbox is something everyone with a license can easily drive in mere minutes.
And I still think having moronic soccermons driving 1000+ hp cars is dangerous

 

[LaArtist]

I would agree with this but we aren’t to be given a choice. I think everything you named, all workhorse vehicles should be forced to make the switch first as they pollute far more anyways. Thing is they’re going to wrench your ICE vehicle out your hands at some point. Either by force or taxes depending on where u live.

Owning an old EV is going to be the worst shit ever with its degraded battery that costs a fortune to replace.

M

I think it’s gonna be the other way around .. the majority will go electric and if you own a old ass ice car ( and I sure hope you guys are buying some NA manuals to last you until you meet the lord ) they won’t bother taxing it anyway cause they are few and old . Price of gas should drop to over time.
While the cost of operating a EV will soar , taxes and the price of a kw/h . The bastards can’t let you have a free ride.

As far as old EVs go , no one will own one, there is no passion in it to own it a long period. You can get a new one on lease for 2-400 euro pm .. so why keep the old piece of shit ?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I think it’s gonna be the other way around .. the majority will go electric and if you own a old ass ice car ( and I sure hope you guys are buying some NA manuals to last you until you meet the lord ) they won’t bother taxing it anyway cause they are few and old . Price of gas should drop to over time.
While the cost of operating a EV will soar , taxes and the price of a kw/h . The bastards can’t let you have a free ride.

As far as old EVs go , no one will own one, there is no passion in it to own it a long period. You can get a new one on lease for 2-400 euro pm .. so why keep the old piece of shit ?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[wallstbear]

The Sketch Monkey analysis:

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I like his design reviews. He get's it right quite frequently.

But this one is a bit off re his criticism of a shorter hood.

First of all, unlike an AMG GT that has a long hood for a massive V8, EV engines are next to the wheel. Therefore, a long hood (with the speedtail) will result in an excessively long vehicle, a mediocre wheelbase and dead weight.

That is neither practical, nor good for range. In fact Mercedes already has the 6-meter Maybach Cabriolet 6 Concept, w/ a long hood and a long tail. But the Maybach is meant for a big IC engine.

Truth is, it's much easier to design a long car. The tough part is working with real world dimensions, range, and practicality.

The insistence on a long hood has been shaped over the decades by IC cars. This WILL change in the EV age. Mercedes is ahead of the pack in that regard while many manufacturers are too chicken shit.

By adding 4-5 several inches to the design, you have added probably 20-25kg and reduced the range by 2%-4% (more in stop and go traffic).

This is the last thing the engineers want in the context of this 1000km range vehicle.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

But this one is a bit off re his criticism of a shorter hood.

First of all, unlike an AMG GT that has a long hood for a massive V8, EV engines are next to the wheel. Therefore, a long hood (with the speedtail) will result in an excessively long vehicle, a mediocre wheelbase and dead weight.

That is neither practical, nor good for range. In fact Mercedes already has the 6-meter Maybach Cabriolet 6 Concept, w/ a long hood and a long tail. But the Maybach is meant for a big IC engine.

Truth is, it's much easier to design a long car. The tough part is working with real world dimensions, range, and practicality.

The insistence on a long hood has been shaped over the decades by IC cars. This WILL change in the EV age. Mercedes is ahead of the pack in that regard while many manufacturers are too chicken shit.

By adding 4-5 several inches to the design, you have added probably 20-25kg and reduced the range by 2%-4% (more in stop and go traffic).

This is the last thing the engineers want in the context of this 1000km range vehicle.

And bigger footprint needs bigger roads and parking space. It's a waste of space, which is exactly the opposite of the environment-friedly mantra of the EVs.

 

[Matski]

That is neither practical, nor good for range. In fact Mercedes already has the 6-meter Maybach Cabriolet 6 Concept, w/ a long hood and a long tail. But the Maybach is meant for a big IC engine.

Maybach 6 was an EV.

 

[wallstbear]

Maybach 6 was an EV.

Ah... I just checked and you are right. My bad.

Now, that being said, the Maybach 6 apparently has a pathetic 200 mile range, and purely based on the looks, 65% of the internal space of that car is empty. Sure looks pretty though.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

And bigger footprint needs bigger roads and parking space. It's a waste of space, which is exactly the opposite of the environment-friedly mantra of the EVs.

It's the excessively large footprint of luxury segment SUV/SAC/Pickups that can irk me. Regardless of whether they are ICE-powered or electric. But when it comes to elegantly athletic lower ride height 4 door vehicles vehicles, 4750mm-to-5100mm in length is "sweet-spot terrain". Not necessarily in terms of efficient packaging or prudent usage of footprint space, but in terms of eye-appeal and aesthetics. Remember, eye appeal is often anchored in pleasant, exciting past experiences and what the contemporary perception of "what constitutes beauty" was. And remains for a very broad swathe of a more mature target audience. That perception usually encompasses a more pronounced hood length and somewhat set-back passenger compartments. The implementation of such in design may not offer the most optimal canvas for aerodynamic efficiency, but the sacrifice of, say 250 kms of range equating to 750 km realistic range in exchange for a far more desirable visual experience may be more than tolerable fo those in the target market. As the fast-charging networks expand in density, the "1000 km range" argument loses a substantial portion of its' significance.

 

[KiwiRob]

As the fast-charging networks expand in density, the "1000 km range" argument loses a substantial portion of its' significance.

I hate waiting around, I just like to get to where I'm going with the absolute minimum of stops. I have no desire to stop for 30 minutes every couple of hundred km or so for a top up.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

I hate waiting around, I just like to get to where I'm going with the absolute minimum of stops. I have no desire to stop for 30 minutes every couple of hundred km or so for a top up.

Exactly. That’s my reason as well to have cars with the biggest range possible.