C-Class (W204) Mercedes Confirms Return of 4-cyl. C-Class

[K-A]

True, A6 is brand new. I guess I should know how this works, I payed A LOT more to Lease my $57K 2010 than I did my $58K (before discounts.... which the 2011 got much more) 2011 E350. Still, the price slashing on the E-Class is embarrassing, and it bugs me to see it because as an enthusiast of the car, it lowers the cars literal "value". Price slashing is common and necessary, but we're talking over 20% on a pretty new and really popular car, that just means bad business and product management somewhere.

 

[DexterMorgan]

@Merc1: Over producing cars is something Detroit is famous for, not Germany. Daimler may have picked up some bad business practices during their marriage with Chrysler. Fact remains, a luxury product is only a luxury product if it's hard to attain. When you're discounting your product by 20% of its value, it's a hard case to make that you trust what you're selling.

If MB has the liquid capital (and it appears they do), I would rather they spend it on making the E a better value. Why not use the factory incentives towards vehicle content. I'd love to see an E class where basic necessities that are currently optional come standard. ie, nav, memory seats, heated seats, bi-xenon's etc. Heck, the cost of the Driver's Assistance Package in the US is only $ 2900. Imagine buying an E350 that came with DISTRONIC PLUS, lane keep assist and blind spot assist as standard equipment!

 

[Merc1]

Fact remains, a luxury product is only a luxury product if it's hard to attain. When you're discounting your product by 20% of its value, it's a hard case to make that you trust what you're selling.

If thats the case then there are very few luxury cars on the market today. Only Bentley, Aston, Maserati, Rolls are left. There is not a hard to attain product from Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, Cadillac, Audi or Volvo. Outside of a few select specialty models from Porsche, BMW and Mercedes like M and AMG models and only certain ones at that, anything else they have is attainable by walking in a buying it and it won't be selling for sticker price either. Been to an Audi dealer lately, the 2 here have R8s sitting all over the showroom, at least 4-5 at each dealer.

Trusting what you sell? If they didn't these cars would have warranties. Just because a dealer is trying to move a product by taking something off the top doesn't mean the company doesn't trust the product. You're reading way too much into something that has been going on for years now. Since the economy first tanked in 2008 discounts can be had on anything that isn't brand new or truly limited in production.


M

 

[K-A]

True, they are, but my own argument here is the extent in the case of some of their models. It's just sloppy, and showing negatively toward the cars (antithesis of "Premium") when they have to slash 20+% on a car before it sells. I mean, a few grand off, maybe 10% if the going is rough, but 20%? That's just wrong.

M-B better get it in order, because as they get cheaper cars on the lots, it's gonna be a mess with base E's being discounted $10K to sell for $42K, while they're trying to keep much cheaper and lower-end C-Coupes at $3K under sticker.... Making it just a few grand shy of the initially $10K more expensive E-Class.

Speaking for myself, if a salesman tells me that he can get me into an E for $45K, I'm not gonna pay near that for a C or A/B (when they come out, and you know M-B's gonna want to stay close to sticker on those, as there is less wiggle room). It's just bad shopping otherwise.

Last year, AMG's were the best showing of this oversupply problem. There was over $20K trunk money on them from M-B, and people were able to further negotiate off that with the Dealers. Some guys got E63's touching the $60's. M-B messed up and they corrected it this year, as AMG supply has been much quieter. They seem to be struggling with their more expensive models as to how to control this issue. With more cheaper models showing up, I doubt they'll be able to sell E-Classes in the mid $40's so easily, if they want to make good enough margins on the A/B/C/CLC and all the other mass-entry models that are taking the brand over. Something's gotta give.

Maybe the entry models will allow them the ability to keep the E/S/etc. at their proper premiums, on the other hand? Maybe now, since they depend on the E-Class to be so volume, they have to sacrifice some profit on it, while if they have all these new cheapo cars out, maybe they can go back to keeping the E/S/Etc. more commanding of their worth. That would be a nice twist to their new "more cars for kids" motif.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If thats the case then there are very few luxury cars on the market today. Only Bentley, Aston, Maserati, Rolls are left. There is not a hard to attain product from Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, Cadillac, Audi or Volvo.
M

I can't speak for your neck of the woods, but here in the North East try going to a Porsche or Audi store to buy a Q5, Q7, A6, Cayenne, Panamera, heck even an A5. Chances are you're looking at a factory order. With the same token, visit a MB dealer here and they're stocked to the gills in E, C, ML, GL, and GLK inventories. So yes, there are Audi's and Porsche's out there that are hard to attain.

 

[Merc1]

What you're not getting is that Mercedes is a much higher volume seller than Porsche or Audi. Please stop kidding yourself about Audi and Porsche being so hard to obtain. If a Mercedes dealer is "stocked to the gills" in ML's he just got them like every other dealer around the country did. Again, much ado about nothing. There ain't nothing hard to obtain at an Audi dealer. Just because you have to order one doesn't make it some exclusive, hard to get item like a Ferrari or Aston. The dealer here has plenty of brand new 2012 A6s so again, matterless point. Ditto for the A7 and A8 and the R8, which supposed to be so hard to get. Nonsense. There is nothing exclusive about a Audi. They weren't selling good just a few years ago and now they are, but their production hasn't caught up, very simple. Audi isn't pondering building a factory here in the U.S. so their dealers can NOT have cars on their lots.


M

 

[DexterMorgan]

What you're not getting is that Mercedes is a much higher volume seller than Porsche or Audi. Please stop kidding yourself about Audi and Porsche being so hard to obtain. If a Mercedes dealer is "stocked to the gills" in ML's he just got them like every other dealer around the country did. Again, much ado about nothing. There ain't nothing hard to obtain at an Audi dealer. Just because you have to order one doesn't make it some exclusive, hard to get item like a Ferrari or Aston. The dealer here has plenty of brand new 2012 A6s so again, matterless point. Ditto for the A7 and A8 and the R8, which supposed to be so hard to get. Nonsense. There is nothing exclusive about a Audi. They weren't selling good just a few years ago and now they are, but their production hasn't caught up, very simple. Audi isn't pondering building a factory here in the U.S. so their dealers can NOT have cars on their lots.


M

Again, YMMV based on where you live. In the interest of getting this thread back on topic, I'd like to leave you with this little tid-bit from ALG:

2012 AUDI A6

https://www.alg.com/images/SO11_IR_US/nl_large_2012auda6.jpgAs Mercedes and BMW have continued to consolidate their hold on the Luxury segment (sharing roughly 60% of sales), Audi looks to regain the glory of its 2nd generation A6, which made a big sales splash with its curvy aesthetic. The brand again sets the segment design standard, and takes elements from its upscale A7 and A8 brethren, such as available full-LED headlights, textured wood trim and Audi's touch-pad MMI interface. It even offers an in-car Wi-Fi hotspot. Audi has managed to make the car lighter with aluminum despite more size and features. Powertrains carry over, but a hybrid debuts later in the year.

ALG OUTLOOK - The new A6 should help Audi once again challenge the segment leaders.

September/October 2011 24 Month 36 Month 48 Month 60 Month Audi A6 64% 54% 45% 37% Audi Avg. 63% 53% 44% 37% Luxury Car Avg. 59% 49% 40% 33%

https://www.alg.com/pdf/SO11_IR_US.pdf

Pay close attention to the residual values as compared. 20% dip in a car's value at delivery does not bode well for any manufacturer. And as K-A as mentioned, why would an informed consumer even consider a C250/300/350 in the mid $ 40's range when you can buy an E for the same price.

 

[Merc1]

Again, YMMV based on where you live. In the interest of getting this thread back on topic, I'd like to leave you with this little tid-bit from ALG:

2012 AUDI A6

https://www.alg.com/images/SO11_IR_US/nl_large_2012auda6.jpgAs Mercedes and BMW have continued to consolidate their hold on the Luxury segment (sharing roughly 60% of sales), Audi looks to regain the glory of its 2nd generation A6, which made a big sales splash with its curvy aesthetic. The brand again sets the segment design standard, and takes elements from its upscale A7 and A8 brethren, such as available full-LED headlights, textured wood trim and Audi's touch-pad MMI interface. It even offers an in-car Wi-Fi hotspot. Audi has managed to make the car lighter with aluminum despite more size and features. Powertrains carry over, but a hybrid debuts later in the year.

ALG OUTLOOK - The new A6 should help Audi once again challenge the segment leaders.

September/October 2011 24 Month 36 Month 48 Month 60 Month Audi A6 64% 54% 45% 37% Audi Avg. 63% 53% 44% 37% Luxury Car Avg. 59% 49% 40% 33%

https://www.alg.com/pdf/SO11_IR_US.pdf

Pay close attention to the residual values as compared. 20% dip in a car's value at delivery does not bode well for any manufacturer. And as K-A as mentioned, why would an informed consumer even consider a C250/300/350 in the mid $ 40's range when you can buy an E for the same price.

The C-Class sells because it isn't going for sticker price. You can't sit here and claim that the E is a better buy with a discount when the same discont can be had on the C-Class. You're pretending that the C sells for sticker and the E doesn't. Truth is, neither do otherwise they BOTH wouldn't be some of the best sellers in their respective classes.

The ALG parargraph means what? Nothing. No one here is going to say that the A6 isn't a good car. I'm saying it isn't some hard to get, exclusive item as you try to imply by looking at your local dealer.


There is nothing exclusive or hard to get about an Audi. The factory will build as many as they can sell. They aren't Ferrari or Aston where production is capped, or supposed to be. Do you think people don't have to order Mercedes models? Just because the dealer has some around doesn't mean that is what every customer wants.


Projecting resale value is a fools game IMO especially with Audi, because Audis are notorious for having more problems than Mercedes or BMWs down the road. You don't wanna go there about Audi, trust me. Mercedes quality has rebounded and Audi's has plummeted. Look at the dependability surveys, not that 90-day nonsense, the 3-year assessment tells the real story. So much for projected resale. I would have a hard time picking a used Audi over a used Benz post 2007.


M

 

[Wolfgang]

The Mercedes-Benz E350 BlueTEC is an ALG Residual Value Award winner 2011.

Pics from the ALG award ceremony:









https://www.alg.com/ResidualValueAwards

 

[Wolfgang]

Look at the dependability surveys, not that 90-day nonsense, the 3-year assessment tells the real story.

Here we go

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

As always...Wolf has the facts all sorted!

 

[Wolfgang]

pics above no longer work? Some from cache:

 

[Merc1]

Already I'm seeing the C250 more and more. Someone in my complex has one also. I didn't know we also get a C250 "Luxury" model here in the U.S. They're flying off the dealer lots. Have yet to see the coupe on the road yet, but I will soon I'm sure.

M

 

[K-A]

I saw and rode in a Coupe. Not a fan. Hideous greenhouse for Benz standards, akin to a 90's Accord, just very not sexy in its shapes, etc. The big fat singular door frame just isn't elegant in the least. The rear side glass looks waaaay too long from inside, the interior is a big improvement, but it still tells you that it's "entry level" (it is, so you can't really knock it on that, lol, but it's at least acceptable, unlike the pre-faclift Sedan) and has quite a few weak spots. The engine feels smooth for a 4-Banger, but it still has that unmistakable 4-Banger sound and isn't quite as smooth as a 6.

Someone in my complex has a new C250 Sedan as well, and I'm sure we'll see more and more.

Honestly, if I ever decided to get a Sports Car or something a little less functional than my E-Class (something that would require a second car for me, as a necessity more-so than a luxury), and it wasn't a Benz, I'd get a C250 Sedan as my DD/beater.

 

[Yaz]

Did you also notice some don't even have projector headlights? That made me cringe, and I had started to like the FL C.

 

[K-A]

Did you also notice some don't even have projector headlights? That made me cringe, and I had started to like the FL C.

Yup, noticed that indeed. Just a projector with a Benz "Star " on the tip to try and mend it. I'm very surprised that they'd regress all the way back to the reflector days on a Mercedes! It's fine for other people to get it (hey, my HID's feel so new again.... Like it's 1999! ), but I couldn't bare with it.

 

[tennmb]

yes, removing the projectors in the base lighting is disappointing. Overall, i love the shape of the coupe. Have no problem with it. The coupe is much better than sedan on interior, because it has a completely new interior door. The sedan was unchanged in the facelift. The door handle trim continually tears in the sedan. You coupe has higher quality materials, stiching and presentation.

 

[K-A]

Whoops, I meant "reflector", as the non HID W204's come with no projectors now.

Interesting that the Coupe has a nicer interior. I was somewhat impressed with the C Coupes interior, considering how tragic the pre-facelift is, but I didn't think it was all that refined considering what I expect from M-B. Not an upset, but nothing that goes out of its way to impress IMO. The stitching and little bits like that are indeed nice.

 

[klier]

What's HID? And what exactly are projector/reflector headlights?

 

[K-A]

Xenons (HID = High Intensity Discharge), and Projectors are the headlights that look like "Xenons" but now are used to gussy up the looks of regular halogen bulbs (the "Black Eye" look). Reflectors are the most standard, old school type of light, with just that shiny "reflective" mirror material behind a bulb, and the bulb being exposed in all its ugly glory (with a little "shield" in front of it, which M-B put a little "Star" symbol on).