Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[hannaz]

Not sure how much authentic this is.. but sounds interesting. Especially when it’s reported that Mercedes will bring ‘niche models’ according to recent article by motor1

Mercedes CEO: 'We Eat, Sleep, and Drink Cars'

Mercedes CEO Ola Källenius says the German luxury brand is thinking about cars all the time, and despite having about 40 models, new products are possible.

www.motor1.com

 

[Design FIRST]

Not sure how much authentic this is.. but sounds interesting. Especially when it’s reported that Mercedes will bring ‘niche models’ according to recent article by motor1

Mercedes CEO: 'We Eat, Sleep, and Drink Cars'

Mercedes CEO Ola Källenius says the German luxury brand is thinking about cars all the time, and despite having about 40 models, new products are possible.

www.motor1.com

Could it possibly be that these allude to kW outputs of future top-end electric E-and S Class models ?

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Not sure how much authentic this is.. but sounds interesting. Especially when it’s reported that Mercedes will bring ‘niche models’ according to recent article by motor1

Mercedes CEO: 'We Eat, Sleep, and Drink Cars'

Mercedes CEO Ola Källenius says the German luxury brand is thinking about cars all the time, and despite having about 40 models, new products are possible.

www.motor1.com

I wouldn't take too much stock in them for now. Sometimes these types of trademarks are filed just for brand protection purposes.
Much as I'd love a V8 E600 and a V12 S700... Just don't see it happening.

Maybe high power EV variants for the MB.EA-L specs. But they're definitely not representing kW outputs - especially for non-AMG
Nobody needs close to a megawatt (1200+ hp) of power from a non-AMG S class.

 

[Jonathan19]

Not sure how much authentic this is.. but sounds interesting. Especially when it’s reported that Mercedes will bring ‘niche models’ according to recent article by motor1

Mercedes CEO: 'We Eat, Sleep, and Drink Cars'

Mercedes CEO Ola Källenius says the German luxury brand is thinking about cars all the time, and despite having about 40 models, new products are possible.

www.motor1.com

"S900" is maybe the coupe style Maybach that the patents leak months ago?

 

[Design FIRST]

Nobody needs close to a megawatt (1200+ hp) of power from a non-AMG S class.

Things that promote "bragging rights" are seldom rational. But they can sure "sell".

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Things that promote "bragging rights" are seldom rational. But they can sure "sell".

At which point it would just be an S90 AMG no?
1200 hp from a standard, non-AMG S class is ridiculous.

 

[Design FIRST]

At which point it would just be an S90 AMG no?
1200 hp from a standard, non-AMG S class is ridiculous.

In this age of BEVs, exorbitantly high powertrain outputs are becoming a more common byproduct accompanying massive torque and highest possible refinement (when the comfort mode settings are clicked and soundscapes are switched off) . After all, we have 475kW (646PS) SMART (BRABUS) #5s. A midsized SUV. And should a possible electric S700 ever come to fruition, we're talking some 945PS. Not to forget the eventual axial-flux e-motor trickle down into non AMG M-Bs. Single axial flux e-motors are producing anywhere between 370kW to 550kw-genuinely crazy 500-to-742PS. And moving away from M-B (AMG), the upcoming top-end electric Porsche Cayenne Turbo S is said to produce some 741kW (1000PS). And this in a larger SUV. We are also seeing 965kW (over 1300PS) quad-DeepDrive e-motor BMW i3M sedan prototypes. It all gets mind-boggling indeed.

I suppose that M-B will also offer some more pedestrian non-AMG electric S-Class models as well. Perhaps an S400 model as a base model with some 540PS.

 

[Rolf]

It would be interesting to see the power outputs of the German premium brands moving forward, as lately many of them have been looking suddenly very pedestrian compared to some EV and PHEV Chinese brand models. For example the Xiaomi SU7 (sports saloon with over 1500hp) and the Yangwang U7 (luxury saloon with 1305HP EV) are at least 500hp more powerful than equivalent German saloons. Mercedes new AMG EV GT looks set to recover some of the loss with its over 1300hp powertrain, but then the new Yangwang U9 is set to get a 3020hp version which is ultra ridiculous power for a road car.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

It would be interesting to see the power outputs of the German premium brands moving forward, as lately many of them have been looking suddenly very pedestrian compared to some EV and PHEV Chinese brand models. For example the Xiaomi SU7 (sports saloon with over 1500hp) and the Yangwang U7 (luxury saloon with 1305HP EV) are at least 500hp more powerful than equivalent German saloons. Mercedes new AMG EV GT looks set to recover some of the loss with its over 1300hp powertrain, but then the new Yangwang U9 is set to get a 3020hp version which is ultra ridiculous power for a road car.

Ultimately it's a futile arms race.
Eventually there will be some regulation on how much power a road car can have. 3000HP is so pointlessly insane. E motors can produce an almost arbitrary amount of power - that's why they're used for most high speed traction engines on trains.

The difference will ultimately be on a combination of how a car drives, rides and feels. This is a moment in history where drivetrains are now democratised. The luxury manufacturers have less space to operate, and will need to differentiate on the overall package. I think lightness will be key.

We've seen some examples of BYDs that have really really poor braking performance.

 

[Design FIRST]

The brand Mercedes-Benz has perhaps never presented a vehicle that encapsulated identity, innovation, forward oriented exterior/interior design and that engineered to a standard quality more than...:

While some very small hints of it's W108/109 predecessor could be detected, the W116 was a whole new ballgame in so many aspects. And almost universally recognized in the realms of the automotive community as "The Best Car In The World" in the sum of it's attributes. This was not necessarily the case with the W108/109, that was unable to distance itself from it's competitors so convincingly.

M-B desparately needs a vehicle of the caliber. Not necessarily in this particular 3-Box sedan category. Also not necessarily exclusively in ICE/Hybrid form. But MOST necessarily in the form of a statement successfully conveyed.

 

[klier]

It is definitely time for the GLS to be reimagined. It needs to go the true S-Class route, not related to the GLE in any obvious areas.

M

Very much the same can be said for the BMW X7, btw. Both are elongated cousins of the GLE/X5.

Regarding V12s - I love a V12 as much as the next guy, but we need to be real that MB won’t invest R&D into a new large displacement engine as a singular trim level. Unfortunately those days are over… as long as MB keeps trying to shove terrible looking EVs down our throats. The current V12’s bones are 30 years old and is barely meeting emissions standards in EU markets.

They should very much invest in it. There is not a single other brand that has so many models that could use this engine (GLS, S, SL, AMG GT, G Wagon, all the Maybach cars), not to mention the possibility to outsource this engine to all the hypercar makers who lack the skill/money/know-how to develop their own engine (eg Pagani, GMA, Aston Martin, etc.)

We need to get real indeed.
Offering a V12 makes the whole model range just that more special and desirable: "Is that a V12 GLS?? Oh no sorry, it's just a 450d. But it has the V12 rims!!"

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Very much the same can be said for the BMW X7, btw. Both are elongated cousins of the GLE/X5.




They should very much invest in it. There is not a single other brand that has so many models that could use this engine (GLS, S, SL, AMG GT, G Wagon, all the Maybach cars), not to mention the possibility to outsource this engine to all the hypercar makers who lack the skill/money/know-how to develop their own engine (eg Pagani, GMA, Aston Martin, etc.)

We need to get real indeed.
Offering a V12 makes the whole model range just that more special and desirable: "Is that a V12 GLS?? Oh no sorry, it's just a 450d. But it has the V12 rims!!"

I agree with this.
But I only really think this is possible once combustion has died a death completely at the low-end. I'm sure affalterbach would love to improve on the M279, but regulations means they cannot. I mean that motor has been producing 600 horsepower and over 1000Nm since 2004. Imagine what it could do with a more modern turbocharging set-up.
At least until their average fleet emissions are heavily reduced because more of their lower-end/base model cars are sold as EVs.

Unfortunately this will mean the specials with V8s and V12s will be rarer and less affordable, but this is just reality.

 

[Rolf]

I agree with this.
But I only really think this is possible once combustion has died a death completely at the low-end. I'm sure affalterbach would love to improve on the M279, but regulations means they cannot. I mean that motor has been producing 600 horsepower and over 1000Nm since 2004. Imagine what it could do with a more modern turbocharging set-up.
At least until their average fleet emissions are heavily reduced because more of their lower-end/base model cars are sold as EVs.

Unfortunately this will mean the specials with V8s and V12s will be rarer and less affordable, but this is just reality.

The engine they sourcing to Pagani for the Utopia shows the potential of that magnificent powerplant. It could probably crack the 1000hp barrier if fettled a little more.

 

[GTA45E]

They should very much invest in it. There is not a single other brand that has so many models that could use this engine (GLS, S, SL, AMG GT, G Wagon, all the Maybach cars), not to mention the possibility to outsource this engine to all the hypercar makers who lack the skill/money/know-how to develop their own engine (eg Pagani, GMA, Aston Martin, etc.)

We need to get real indeed.
Offering a V12 makes the whole model range just that more special and desirable: "Is that a V12 GLS?? Oh no sorry, it's just a 450d. But it has the V12 rims!!"

Agreed.
The M279 V12 with its 3-valve, SOHC architecture is old and outdated. The M120 V12 used in the W140 S600 was a better engine and was used in a number of high-performance applications. Mercedes might have discontinued it because of emission regulations.

If Mercedes wants to move forward with the V12, it would do very well to join its excellent M256 inline 6 engines together, with a new mild-hybrid set-up for V12 application. Meeting Euro 7 emission is the question. The new flat-plane V8 is said to meet Euro 7.
If this emission control can be developed for a V8, it could be enhanced for V12 use.

 

[Design FIRST]

AMG GT XX production prototype captured in autobahn footage:

ᴡɪʟᴄᴏ ʙʟᴏᴋ on Instagram: "Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4 door spotted on the road! 📷 @carveerbv #electric #Mercedes #amg #gt #amggt #amggt4door #ev #prototype #Erlkönig #spyshot #carspy #dasbesteodernichts #thebestornothing"

283 likes, 12 comments - wilcoblok on August 10, 2025: "Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4 door spotted on the road! 📷 @carveerbv #electric #Mercedes #amg #gt #amggt #amggt4door #ev #prototype #Erlkönig #spyshot #carspy #dasbesteodernichts #thebestornothing".

www.instagram.com

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Agreed.
The M279 V12 with its 3-valve, SOHC architecture is old and outdated. The M120 V12 used in the W140 S600 was a better engine and was used in a number of high-performance applications. Mercedes might have discontinued it because of emission regulations.

Outdated perhaps, but it's power and performance are nothing to laugh at. The M158 which is based on the M275/9 used by Pagani produces something like 1200Nm and 820PS.

And the motor is supposed to be very reliable, because it's simpler.

If Mercedes wants to move forward with the V12, it would do very well to join its excellent M256 inline 6 engines together, with a new mild-hybrid set-up for V12 application. Meeting Euro 7 emission is the question. The new flat-plane V8 is said to meet Euro 7.
If this emission control can be developed for a V8, it could be enhanced for V12 use.

I think they'd need to develop a newer online 6. The M256 is a lovely motor, but apparently it's not suited to higher power because it can't handle higher boost pressure.
Would make more sense to make an inline 6 based on the M139L and then doubling that up.

 

[Merc1]

However they need to do it, they should. The GLS Maybach should have been offered a V12 variant. Mercedes spits out engines like it’s nothing. Would be easy for them to do. They’re just being incredibly tight with the money.

M

 

[klier]

BMW has to update the RR V12 to be compliant with Euro 7 emissions (somewhere next year!), otherwise Rolls Royce will have to downsize too.....which I doubt will happen.

A Spectre update next year with EU7 compliant V12 would just be lovely.

I think they'd need to develop a newer online 6.

Is that the virtual version of an imaginary engine (the I6 is still brand new)? And I will not believe it's not suited for high power unless I see a proper source telling me that. Mercedes is not in the business of building weak engines AFAIK. They can always handle way more than the given specs.

 

[GTA45E]

I think they'd need to develop a newer online 6. The M256 is a lovely motor, but apparently it's not suited to higher power because it can't handle higher boost pressure.
Would make more sense to make an inline 6 based on the M139L and then doubling that up.

I just did a quick AI search for the piston pressure levels of the M256 inline 6.
If this info is correct, its piston pressure levels surpass the pressure levels of the supercharged 717hp Hemi V8 in the Dodge Hellcat, which is insane!
With some modifications, the M256 would be a great candidate to join together for a 6.0-liter V12 engine.

 

[Rolf]

I think they'd need to develop a newer online 6. The M256 is a lovely motor, but apparently it's not suited to higher power because it can't handle higher boost pressure.
Would make more sense to make an inline 6 based on the M139L and then doubling that up.

Brabus have some mods just to the CPU and they are extracting up to 65kw more power with the M256. The CLS 53 can be boosted up to 368kw (500PS) while the new E53 can be pumped up to 515kw (700PS). So there is still alot of life in this engine but I think Mercedes still are keeping it in low tune.

BRABUS extra power for your vehicle: The BRABUS PowerXtra B53-500 performance kit based on the AMG CLS 53 consists of a processor-driven auxiliary control module for the engine control unit. In addition to a bump in peak torque from 520 Nm to 590 Nm, the rated output jumps by 48 kW/65 hp from 320 kW/435 hp to 368 kW/500 hp. The plug-and-play control unit is adapted to the standard engine management.

The kit is available for delivery.

Acceleration 0-100 km/h:

• 4.3 s (stock 4.5 s)

Performance increase:

• 590 Nm (stock 520 Nm)
• 368 kW/500 hp (stock 320 kW/435 hp)

Top speed:

• Vmax: 250 km/h / 155 mph (stock 250 km/h / 155 mph)

BRABUS extra power for your vehicle: The B53-700 performance kit consists of a processor-controlled additional control unit for the engine electronics. In addition to the maximum torque from 750 Nm to 850 Nm, the maximum power is increased by 65 kW/88 hp from 450 kW/612 hp to 515 kW/700 hp. The control units are supplied with a plug & play wiring harness that can be used to adapt the BRABUS PowerXtra control units to the standard engine electronics.

The kit is available for delivery and very easy to install due to the plug & play system.

Acceleration 0-100 km/h:

W 214: 3.6 s (stock 3.8 s) S 214: 3.7 s (stock 3.9 s)

Performance increase:

850 Nm (stock 750 Nm) 515 KW/700 hp (stock 450 kW/612 hp)

Top speed:

Vmax: 250 km/h / 155 mph (stock 250 km/h / 155 mph)

Vmax: 280 km/h / 174 mph (stock 280 km/h / 174 mph) - W 214 with Code 250 (AMG Drivers Package)

Vmax: 275 km/h / 171 mph (stock 275 km/h / 171 mph) - S 214 with Code 250 (AMG Drivers Package)

All given performance figures are approximate values and depend on specific details such as vehicle type, equipment, tare weight, final gear reduction in the rear axle, wheel/ tyre combinations, gearbox and aerodynamic add-ons of the vehicle.