Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
but if Im not misinformed' Sedan' version also comes with AMG kit.
Mercedes-Benz leads over BMW in January 2012 US sales
- Thread starter EMpower
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but if Im not misinformed' Sedan' version also comes with AMG kit.
-=Hot|Ice=-
High-Rev Hero
I don't believe it does.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
-=Hot|Ice=-
High-Rev Hero
As far as I know, the AMG pack is an optional extra. 
K-A may have more info.
K-A may have more info.
It does come with the AMG Package as standard guys (actually, it's a "FREE OPTION", but everybody orders them with the Package, so you barely see Luxury-Lined E's), and this is indeed one of the reasons that the E-Class has a disproportionately stronger presence on the roads than the blended-in F10. I asked an MBUSA rep why they did this, and they said since they had so much good feedback and strong momentum by providing it as Free on the W211 during its last year on the market ('09), they didn't want to curb the momentum. BMW, by the way, is lowering the price of the M-Pack this year, and they are taking out all the upgrades to the suspension and drivetrain/tech that it had last year, making it "Only a Body Kit", to obviously keep up with the E-Class.
These Forums are a great way to see how differently Americans and Europeans take to designs. If I'm not mistaken, while the E60 outsold the W211 in the States, the W211 outsold it worldwide? Another example is how I've heard that in Korea, the ultra conservative people there don't like the daring nature of Hyundai's new designs, but American's are buying it up.
On these Forums, the F10 is praised endlessly, but in the States, it seems that it hasn't made a big splash. Not saying that people don't like it, because it's obviously very popular as a 5er should be, but it seems the "impact" isn't there. It's rare that I've talked to someone I know about it who have a strong opinion about it, or who see it as anything remotely riveting, or as anything more than a relatively bland Sedan.
The E60 seemed more conformed to the U.S market.... it's lead Designer being an American who stated that he grew up loving the Classic American, showy cars, with chrome and presence abound. The F10 to me seems very European-centric, and the W212 seems to pander to the American's sense of "Pizzaz" more-so. Just a theory.
Americans are a bit weird
These Forums are a great way to see how differently Americans and Europeans take to designs. If I'm not mistaken, while the E60 outsold the W211 in the States, the W211 outsold it worldwide? Another example is how I've heard that in Korea, the ultra conservative people there don't like the daring nature of Hyundai's new designs, but American's are buying it up.
On these Forums, the F10 is praised endlessly, but in the States, it seems that it hasn't made a big splash. Not saying that people don't like it, because it's obviously very popular as a 5er should be, but it seems the "impact" isn't there. It's rare that I've talked to someone I know about it who have a strong opinion about it, or who see it as anything remotely riveting, or as anything more than a relatively bland Sedan.
The E60 seemed more conformed to the U.S market.... it's lead Designer being an American who stated that he grew up loving the Classic American, showy cars, with chrome and presence abound. The F10 to me seems very European-centric, and the W212 seems to pander to the American's sense of "Pizzaz" more-so. Just a theory.
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
K.A did you see the figures posted by Wolf in another thread? BMW is making MUCH more on every 5-series sold than MB is on every E-class. This is a pretty interesting point.
Mr. Mercedes
Premium
Don't think it really matters what the technical explanation is, just that It's a damn good car and BMW make a pretty penny on it too, regardless of whether the sales are ahead or behind the E. Don't doubt that MB are looking at BMW 5er margins enviably.
That's true, but I don't think it correlates with how they look at Sales volume. M-B following suit on Platform sharing on all upcoming models is probably them trying to catch up to BMW's potion on heavy profits per vehicle. If I'm not mistaken, the E being slightly based on the C-Class chassis was M-B's first experiment in platform sharing, and have since been green-lit for heavy use on future models.
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
The reason why the margins are so high for the F10 5er is because it shares the same platform as the F01 7 Series. A high proportion of the body materials, body architecture, electrical/electronics, suspension components and various miscellaneous trim are common between the two.
Did this entail a reduction in costs? Absolutely! the fundamental purpose of this parts/module sharing is to drive-down costs to improve margins. Does it compromise the product? Not necessarily. Parts sharing means that BMW would only have to develop and build 1 single high-quality component for 2 types of vehicles instead of 1. In the business world, we refer to this as efficiency - extracting more from a limited set of resources.
In terms of sales of the F10, yes it has been very successful. That's because the F10 is a dammn good product that many regard as the class benchmark. One major contributor to this success is the philosophical shift in the way BMW engineered the car: it's more comfort oriented. You all have to realise that the averge 5er customer is very conservative. They don't care about oversteer nor do they particularly want to know how quick the car will tackle the Nurburgring. On a daily basis, the average F10 will see itself leave it's owner's garage, take a 30 km trip to the office car park before going back home.
Has the shift towards comfort compromised the car's sportiness? Us enthusiasts along with motoring journos think it has. But for the people for who's opinion really matter, i.e. the customers, they wouldn't give a shit.
Did this entail a reduction in costs? Absolutely! the fundamental purpose of this parts/module sharing is to drive-down costs to improve margins. Does it compromise the product? Not necessarily. Parts sharing means that BMW would only have to develop and build 1 single high-quality component for 2 types of vehicles instead of 1. In the business world, we refer to this as efficiency - extracting more from a limited set of resources.
In terms of sales of the F10, yes it has been very successful. That's because the F10 is a dammn good product that many regard as the class benchmark. One major contributor to this success is the philosophical shift in the way BMW engineered the car: it's more comfort oriented. You all have to realise that the averge 5er customer is very conservative. They don't care about oversteer nor do they particularly want to know how quick the car will tackle the Nurburgring. On a daily basis, the average F10 will see itself leave it's owner's garage, take a 30 km trip to the office car park before going back home.
Has the shift towards comfort compromised the car's sportiness? Us enthusiasts along with motoring journos think it has. But for the people for who's opinion really matter, i.e. the customers, they wouldn't give a shit.
The last generation E stepped up it`s quality with the face/lift around 07-08.
The W211 E was actually was #1 beating all it`s compeditors, (even the Luxus GS) for top spot (---> JDPower.com | E-Class)
If I`m not mistaken the sport-package is a no cost option here in the US.
E-Class sedan seems to be very popular here in the US. Of 3-4 new E-Class sedans I see in my area.. I see 1 new 5-Series sedan. On top of that, I see more 5-series sedans than the coupe and convertible E-Class.
I believe we Americans are in love with sedans in general.
Yeah, it's a no-cost Option. The AMG Wheel Package is a $760 Option, the Spoiler Package is a $600 Option. To get an E-Class looking like mine, which is the most you can aesthetically equip it, you'd have to select the Sport Package, and then pay for the AMG Wheel Package, Spoiler Package, and P2 Package ($6,500, some aesthetic enhancements, and mostly Tech/Luxury enhancements), which adds about $7,900 to the bill (not include the mods 
).
I agree with the post by UGC and it all makes sense. However, how closely the F10 is tied to other BMW's, which is what gives it such high profit margins, makes it less "exclusive" and more generic than the E-Class to me, which is a more unique design within its corporate range, so I guess in this particular case (me), the consumer benefits from the lesser profit margins.
It's the same problem I face with the 6-Series, which stands alone far more than the F10, and which I'm sure has incredibly high profit margins: It still feels too close to all the other BMW's.... i.e, those profit margins make it less unique within its range and overall to me, the consumer.
M-B has been following suit, and these current cars are probably the last where they're built on more individualized platforms. We'll see if M-B puts "Design/Architecture" in the "Increase Profit Margin" business-model, in the future as well (hopefully not overly heavily).
).I agree with the post by UGC and it all makes sense. However, how closely the F10 is tied to other BMW's, which is what gives it such high profit margins, makes it less "exclusive" and more generic than the E-Class to me, which is a more unique design within its corporate range, so I guess in this particular case (me), the consumer benefits from the lesser profit margins.
It's the same problem I face with the 6-Series, which stands alone far more than the F10, and which I'm sure has incredibly high profit margins: It still feels too close to all the other BMW's.... i.e, those profit margins make it less unique within its range and overall to me, the consumer.
M-B has been following suit, and these current cars are probably the last where they're built on more individualized platforms. We'll see if M-B puts "Design/Architecture" in the "Increase Profit Margin" business-model, in the future as well (hopefully not overly heavily).
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Thanks vary much!
Now we have a direct comparison 5er vs E-class US sales (all derivates incl.!)
US sales
Year: E-class vs 5-Series
2001: 44,445 vs ???
2002: 42,598 vs ??? (W211 introduced)
2003: 55,683 vs 46,964 (E60 launched; first full year of W211 sales)
2004: 58,954 vs 45,584 (first full year of E60 sales)
2005: 50,383 vs 52,722
2006: 50,195 vs 56,757 (W211 LCI launched)
2007: 48,950 vs 54,142 (E60 LCI launched)
2008: 38,576 vs 45,915
2009: 43,072 vs 40,109 (W212 sedan, coupe & wagon launched; F07 5er GT launched in December)
2010: 60,922 vs 39,488 (F10 launched; first full year of 5er GT sales; first full year of W212 sedan & coupe sales; W212 cabrio launched )
2011: 62,736 vs 51,491 (first full year of F10 sales)
Morrison
Precision Pilot
Where is the new A6 ? Is that car so boring ? About the CL discussion. I like very very much the CL, but I sense that it looked better before the facelift and I must admit that if you ask me I really don`t know what to choose between the CL and the CLS. Both cars are looking very hot, with very good interiors. Cl looks more royal but it costs for that. I see these models competing with each other.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Audi A6 US sales:
2004: 14,905
2005: 18,074
2006: 16,216
2007: 12,001
2008: 11,956
2009: 6,786
2010: 8,675
2011: 11,124 (6,720 units of A7 sold in the same year in US market)
It's obvious A7 affects C7 A6 sales - since in 2004 when C6 A6 was launched 14,905 units were sold, while Audi managed to sell "only" 11,124 units of C7 A6 in the year it was launched. When A7 sales are added to A6 figures we get a total number of 17,844 units sold (A6 + A7). This makes much more sense. No doubt - A7 affects A6 sales!
Morrison
Precision Pilot
My brother as an Audi fan will be dissapointed to see that. He was so optimistic when he saw the new A6. I also admited that the A6 its looking very cool both interior and exterior but perhaps the many similarites with the other models in the Audi lineup works bad for it.
The BMW 3-Series sedan and coupe leads followed by the C-Class sedan. I just talked to my local MB dealer (Aristocrat Motors) briefly, about the C-Class coupe. The salesman said it was just introduced in Sept of 2011.
He said the sales have been tremendous and the orders are backed up 3-months. He said mostly singles ( around 40 and under) are buying the new C-Coupe. He also indicated that older folks steer away from it because it`s a two-door.
He said thay usually buy 4-door cars like the E and S-Class. The new C-Coupe will boost sales of the C-Class sharply and will close the gap with the 3-Series BMW.
He said the sales have been tremendous and the orders are backed up 3-months. He said mostly singles ( around 40 and under) are buying the new C-Coupe. He also indicated that older folks steer away from it because it`s a two-door.
He said thay usually buy 4-door cars like the E and S-Class. The new C-Coupe will boost sales of the C-Class sharply and will close the gap with the 3-Series BMW.
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