mini_cooper4
Autotechnik Ace
It's only the US market. The A6 sells good worldwide 
Mercedes-Benz leads over BMW in January 2012 US sales
- Thread starter EMpower
- Start date
EnI
Piston Pioneer
It's only the US market. The A6 sells good worldwide
Sure it does, but 5er & E-class still (again?) sell much better:
2011 global sales:
5er sedan & wagon: 310,050 (+46.3%)
E-class sedan & wagon: 244,341 (-3.3%)
A6 sedan & wagon: 229,200 (+12.2%)
5er family (incl. GT): est. ~334,000 (+40.1%)
E-class family (incl. E-coupe, E-cabrio): 305,835 (+4.7%)
5er GT: est ~24,000
CLS: 32,533
A7: 31,300
EnI
Piston Pioneer
MB do count CLS sales in the total MB sales in the "E-class segment" (as they call it) - so, yes: the total 2011 sales figure reaches 338,368.
Yet CLS does not wear E-Class badge, while 5er GT does wear the 5er badge.
Technically E-class = sedan, wagon, coupe, cabrio; 5er = sedan, wagon, GT crossover.
Otherwise ... why not include 6er family sales in the "5er segment" as well?
But if you compare "segment" 2011 global sales, then the result is:
5er (sedan, wagon, Gran Turismo): est. 334,000 (est. 342,000 when 6er sales are also included in the "segment" sales)
E (sedan, wagon, coupe, cabrio, CLS): 338,368
A6 (sedan, wagon, A7 sportback): 260,500
Sedan & wagon sales only:
5er: 310,050 (+46.3%)
E-class: 244,341 (-3.3%)
A6: 229,200 (+12.2%)
5er badged cars (incl. GT): est. ~334,000 (+40.1%)
E-class badged cars (incl. E-coupe, E-cabrio): 305,835 (+4.7%)
A6 badged cars: 229,200 (+12.2%)
5er GT: est ~24,000
CLS: 32,533
A7: 31,300
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
I agree with the post by UGC and it all makes sense. However, how closely the F10 is tied to other BMW's, which is what gives it such high profit margins, makes it less "exclusive" and more generic than the E-Class to me, which is a more unique design within its corporate range, so I guess in this particular case (me), the consumer benefits from the lesser profit margins.
It's the same problem I face with the 6-Series, which stands alone far more than the F10, and which I'm sure has incredibly high profit margins: It still feels too close to all the other BMW's.... i.e, those profit margins make it less unique within its range and overall to me, the consumer.
M-B has been following suit, and these current cars are probably the last where they're built on more individualized platforms. We'll see if M-B puts "Design/Architecture" in the "Increase Profit Margin" business-model, in the future as well (hopefully not overly heavily).
I don't quite follow what you're saying. Frankly, it makes no sense at all.
So you're saying that you, as an owner of a Mercedes Benz E-Klasse, has an advantage over your BMW 5er counterpart because their product has strong commonality with a 7er and 6er?
When an average customer makes the purchase decision between an E-Klasse or a 5er, they make their decision on a "stand-alone" basis i.e. they compare an E-Klasse directly with a 5er. They wouldn't care less, let alone have knowledge of, the fact that the 5er has a lot in common with a 7er or 6er.
Take me for example: when i made the decision to buy the E90 3er, i didn't consider the fact that the car had a lot in common with the 1er. To me, the 3er was a better car than the equivalent C-Klasse and A4. And i made that purchasing decision based on that feeling. It wouldn't of mattered as to the level of commonality between the 1er and 3er becasue i was making my decision based on what i viewed as the best car amongst its competitors.
As for your assertion that MB in future would have to adopt a stronger platform-sharing strategy? It has to! They are already behind!
Mercedes Benz has the lowest profit margins amongst BMW and Audi. And their Chairman (Dieter Zetsche) has publicly stated their goal of being number 1 in sales and margins by 2020. In order to achive that target, they would seriously have to engage in some major platform and module sharing so as to catch-up with BMW and Audi. If they seriously want to be number 1 in profit margins, then they need to consider adopting a single platform strategy similar to Audi's MQB platform (that underpins the A4 to A8).
Speaking for myself, yes. It will always depend on the individual. The E/5 are such common cars already, IMO the E having a unique-to-the-range design keeps it having a stronger presence. I will say that putting the 5 aside, I would love a 6-Series, I was seriously thinking of getting one. But honestly, spending all that extra cash for a car that even with its stunningly elegant Coupe proportions and grace, looks so similar to other BMW's, just doesn't make sense to me.
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
And K-A, with all due respect, if you were to bring your car to Germany, an average person would mistake it for a taxi. How can you feel "exclusive" about that?
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
That's where you an me differ. To me, i have no problems with my manufacturer sharing platforms and cutting costs when:
1. There is no compromise to the product
2. There is no disadvantage to the customer
To me, the F10 5er is still a brilliant product despite the strong level of commonality with the 7er and 6er. The outstanding sales figures will attest to that.
Ultimately, it's a win-win for both BMW and it's 5er customers. And that is how you conduct good business.
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
I would feel great
The car in that photo is a joke, but sadly, it's not funny.
And Daimler wonders why people are buying Rolls Royces and Bentleys over Maybachs.
And K-A, with all due respect, if you were to bring your car to Germany, an average person would mistake it for a taxi. How can you feel "exclusive" about that?
That's an interesting/good question. If I lived in Germany, I wouldn't buy an E-Class.
In the U.S, I wouldn't (or at least, haven't yet) buy an F10.
As a car enthusiast, I don't care about good business. I care about a product that inspires me. I want no evidence of platform sharing. Just like the Entertainment business: You don't want to see your favorite artists's ugly antics and demands backstage.... you want to see the magic on the stage. Let the business directors hash out how to make money and keep me buying a quality product with proper R&D into it.... however, just convince me with the smoke and mirrors.
The F10 is a great car and great design, but I find it boring and tiring to my eyes to see it constantly.... even when I'm not literally seeing it, I'm seeing it. The W212 and all M-B's do the "Design Language" thing better than BMW. Sure, BMW has found a great balance and they're damn well sticking to it. M-B is more experimental currently, which is a hit or miss, but I find their products to look tied together very strongly, YET have exclusive variations from each other. The W212 especially has unique treatments not seen on other M-B's, especially the pre-2012's with the Hockey Stick LED's.
I see so many E's, as they're extremely popular in the U.S. That's all fine as a car that costs $60K and sells well is a great testament.... and that's what mods are for.... however, I personally draw the line at "I can't tell them apart from other models in the range".
Nicks
Quattro Commander
Damn! Everything's a Taxi somewhere!
I will also slightly reiterate my answer:
Sure, the E is a popular Taxi (a testament to the car, not a downside, as Taxi Drivers, like normal drivers, choose it over the competition), however, it still only looks just like other E-Classes, not other Merc's. The point is, the Design is exclusive to the E-Class.
I will also slightly reiterate my answer:
Sure, the E is a popular Taxi (a testament to the car, not a downside, as Taxi Drivers, like normal drivers, choose it over the competition), however, it still only looks just like other E-Classes, not other Merc's.
The point is, the Design is exclusive to the E-Class.
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
That's an interesting/good question. If I lived in Germany, I wouldn't buy an E-Class.
In the U.S, I wouldn't (or at least, haven't yet) buy an F10.
As a car enthusiast, I don't care about good business. I care about a product that inspires me. I want no evidence of platform sharing. Just like the Entertainment business: You don't want to see your favorite artists's ugly antics and demands backstage.... you want to see the magic on the stage. Let the business directors hash out how to make money and keep me buying a quality product with proper R&D into it.... however, just convince me with the smoke and mirrors.
The F10 is a great car and great design, but I find it boring and tiring to my eyes to see it constantly.... even when I'm not literally seeing it, I'm seeing it. The W212 and all M-B's do the "Design Language" thing better than BMW. Sure, BMW has found a great balance and they're damn well sticking to it. M-B is more experimental currently, which is a hit or miss, but I find their products to look tied together very strongly, YET have exclusive variations from each other. The W212 especially has unique treatments not seen on other M-B's, especially the pre-2012's with the Hockey Stick LED's.
I see so many E's, as they're extremely popular in the U.S. That's all fine as a car that costs $60K and sells well is a great testament.... and that's what mods are for.... however, I personally draw the line at "I can't tell them apart from other models in the range".
I understand what you mean. You want your product to be "perfect" i.e. only the very best of engineering and materials all exclusively applied to your car/product line.
But you have to realise that Mercedes Benz and BMW are businesses - they make cars TO make money.
Mercedes can't sustain this exclusive platform strategy any longer; if it wants to make serious inroads to being number 1 in sales and profitability, then it must consolidate all of it's vehicle platforms and/or start sharing them with Renault/Nissan.
I can assure you that BMW and Audi (both ahead of MB on both counts) are still continuously finding ways to further expoit platform sharing to maintain (or attain) the coveted number 1 status.
Tarek
Cornering Kingpin
And K-A, with all due respect, if you were to bring your car to Germany, an average person would mistake it for a taxi. How can you feel "exclusive" about that?
Haha..so all the rich people driving Es in EU are average too?
I'm sorry but if you think that the average people can't see the difference between basic E/5er and sport packed siblings then you should get your eyes checked.
Of course. I feel that in this new era of "same car, different smell" that BMW really spawned (and have made insane $$$$ off of), Designers/Engineers will have to start focusing on the "cheap ways" to differentiate their cars a bit. I basically will accept having a popular car.... I mean, if a car is good, and unless I'm able to afford $200+K cars, then I have to accept that a good choice of car will be a very popular choice to many others as well, then I will gladly buy it. I'll buy it with Options that put it above the "standard fare" to me, and mod it a little bit, and be happy to see my beautiful car on the road in all its different elements (I always found it boring to have a car that nobody else does in the sense that you can never see how glorious it looks in motion and in all its different elements!), however, considering how much it will sell/be popularized already, I just prefer that it looks slightly bespoke next to its brothers/sisters.
Ultimate Car Guy
Porsche Perfektionist
Damn! Everything's a Taxi somewhere!
I will also slightly reiterate my answer:
Sure, the E is a popular Taxi (a testament to the car, not a downside, as Taxi Drivers, like normal drivers, choose it over the competition), however, it still only looks just like other E-Classes, not other Merc's.
Again, i don't follow. The 7er, 6er, 5er all have their own unique designs. They all have their own exclusive body works, head lights, tail lights, day light openings, doors, wings etc.
Yes, but they do so at such subtle lengths. If I have to squint and take a second to see what I'm looking at (5/7/presumingly F30), then I just feel like I'm seeing the same car over and over again, in different sizes. The E-Class has a unique taillight design, unique headlights, a grille that only 1 other Merc resembles (S-Class), lines that are pretty much unique to it (though, the pattern is shared with some other M-B's.... healthily), and a unique interior. I feel that the E is designed as its own car, and the 3/5/7 are designed as the same car, just slightly tweaked and sized. Which probably is one of the playing factors into their profitability.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Guys, platform sharing is THE future.
Mind BMW Group will only have 4 different modular platforms for ALL its products:
- FWD platform (MINI + BMW FWD cars + FWD-based SUVs & crossovers)
- RWD platform (all BMW RWD cars + RWD-based SUVs & crossovers + RR Ghost family),
- RR Phantom ASF platform
- BMW i LifeDrive CF-alu platform
Supermini MINI (the Rocketman) will most probably share platform with Toyota & Peugeot-Citroen superminis (Aygo, C1, 10x). More info on this subject coming later this year.
Same case with Audi - using a few modular platforms only (MQB, MLB etc) also shared with other VAG brands.
And expect MB to go the same way - otherwise they won't be able to keep the costs down as much as BMW AG & Audi AG - meaning MB profit margins will be much thiner.
Regarding design similarities:
Pre-Bangle BMWs were very alike - and were selling great.
So are Audis of today - all very similar to each other, selling extremely well.
And BMW don't have any problems with selling current 7er, 6er, 5er, new 3er - despite all similarities.
And so are MB cars - with more design differences ... selling very well.
I'm not sure the majority of customers bother much about interclass design similarities.
The major on "too similar interclass design" criticism comes from the press & design community, not from the customers!
Mind BMW Group will only have 4 different modular platforms for ALL its products:
- FWD platform (MINI + BMW FWD cars + FWD-based SUVs & crossovers)
- RWD platform (all BMW RWD cars + RWD-based SUVs & crossovers + RR Ghost family),
- RR Phantom ASF platform
- BMW i LifeDrive CF-alu platform
Supermini MINI (the Rocketman) will most probably share platform with Toyota & Peugeot-Citroen superminis (Aygo, C1, 10x). More info on this subject coming later this year.
Same case with Audi - using a few modular platforms only (MQB, MLB etc) also shared with other VAG brands.
And expect MB to go the same way - otherwise they won't be able to keep the costs down as much as BMW AG & Audi AG - meaning MB profit margins will be much thiner.
Regarding design similarities:
Pre-Bangle BMWs were very alike - and were selling great.
So are Audis of today - all very similar to each other, selling extremely well.
And BMW don't have any problems with selling current 7er, 6er, 5er, new 3er - despite all similarities.
And so are MB cars - with more design differences ... selling very well.
I'm not sure the majority of customers bother much about interclass design similarities.
The major on "too similar interclass design" criticism comes from the press & design community, not from the customers!
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