Mercedes-Benz leads over BMW in January 2012 US sales

[Merc1]

Way too much speculation for me K/A. Until some numbers are presented I think its just best to leave that one where it is. There is no proof of any of that. You can't go by how many cars you see on the street. If that were the case, I could assume a whole lot about sales of all kinds of high end cars here in Dallas, but that isn't representative of the rest of the country. Its all guesswork is all I'm saying.

Sales don't change in one month based on anything you've stated. BMW shipped a lot of cars and now they're cutting back on shipments is all this is. All these "sales" numbers we talk about every month aren't even true sales, its just the number of cars shipped/sold to the dealers. A great mass of buyers don't just realize this month that the E is more reliable the 5-Series, lol. That is just plain silly. That sort of thing happens over times and model cycles. Until the E's sales numbers are broke about between sedan/coupe/convertible/wagon there is nothing to prove that it outsells the 5 based on sedans alone. The E convertible and coupe happen to be in demand also, ask any dealer.

He would pick the CL over the CLS because he wanted something better looking and more exclusive IMO. They did sell like 1K of them last year didn't they? That isn't shabby at all for a car that prices from 115-200K.


M

 

[SKY]

Somehow I view logical that MB leads the sales, as it has always been. I wouldn´t like to see Audi leading, for example.

 

[klier]

Hahaa, K-A's theories are getting more out of control each time...

Also, Artist, my previous post wasn't exactly about the E coupe being a C coupe at all......it was about the topic at hand: meaning it's impossible to see how many E sedan cars are sold vs 5er sedan, without an actual breakdown.
I know you believe all K-A's wild stories, but it's better not to.

 

[K-A]

Why are you so jealous of my intellect and logic, Klier? When you read my posts, do you see red, and start yelling rabidly, because the truth hurts?

Ohh, it must hurt so bad.

Are you just in a bad mood because your precious F10 is selling softly, and can't outsell an older E-Class, who has lower HP and MPG figures? Hard to accept that the E is just that much hotter?

 

[GTA45E]

Until the E's sales numbers are broke about between sedan/coupe/convertible/wagon there is nothing to prove that it outsells the 5 based on sedans alone. The E convertible and coupe happen to be in demand also, ask any dealer.
M

Points taken, but why separate the coupe and convertible E-Class from the line. Thay are still E-Class cars and should be included in the sales figures just like the wagons (or GTs).
It just so happens Mercedes-Benz has two (sport) versions of the E-Class that BMW does not include with the 5-Series. This is a clear reason for the sales growth of the E.

If the 5-Series came as a coupe and convertible, it would (or should) also be included in the 5-series sales figures as a whole.

 

[K-A]

We also don't know what the 5GT sells, but it's probable that its even low number brings the 5 Sedans actual sales under 3,000.

Who can post us E60 Sales figures? I'd be very interested to know. I know it was a monster seller.... for some odd reason.

 

[EnI]

BMW 5-series US sales:

2003: 46,964 (E60 launched in ...?)
2004: 45,584 (first full year of E60 sales)
2005: 52,722 (E61 & M5 E60 launched) - best selling year for E61 (2,351 units)
2006: 56,757
2007: 54,142 (E60 & E61 LCI launched)
2008: 45,915
2009: 40,109 (F07 launched in December)
2010: 39,488 (F10 launched in June / July (528i) + full year of F07 sales = 2,848 units)
2011: 51,491 (first full year of F10 sales)
2012: ????? (M5 F10 launched)

Source: BMW

 

[K-A]

E60's sales will be hard to top, especially if you were to discount natural inflation, this being almost a decade later!

 

[EnI]

Taking away F07 sales figures brings us to the F10 sales 2011 figures of about 49,000 units.
And that's about 7-8% more compared to E60 result in its full year sales after launch.

I guess price does matter, so does discounts, and the financing, and inventories, and $ vs € exchange rates - I have no info to compare with E60 situation. But sure some things are different here. Competition is stiffer, for sure. Etc.

It's sure that German car makers are rather allocating sales to the markets where profit is higher. So, it's also hard to tell whether the demand is slower due slow delivery, or due lesser desirability of the car.

What's for sure is in general (worldwide) F10/F11 is selling better than E60/E61 ever did. So, the factory is running at fully production capacity.

Really hard to tell why US sales are not as good compared to W212 E-class - while E60 was clearly outselling the W211. I have no detailed info on US market to make right claims.

 

[K-A]

Really hard to tell why US sales are not as good compared to W212 E-class - while E60 was clearly outselling the W211. I have no detailed info on US market to make right claims.

This is interesting to me as well. If you follow the charts, the E60 was killing the W211, and the W212 instantly not only caught up, but raced past and has stayed ahead. Like I said before, regardless of how close the F10 and W212 Sedans are, it's clear that the W212 has brought major market share back to M-B. Also, the E60's sales increasing rapidly after a couple-few years on the market was interesting. The F10 should very well outsell the E60 off of general inflation alone, but I feel that the E60's numbers may have been more impressive for its time? Idk.

Regarding Americans, I think the E60 and W212 being so similar in styling ideals (extroverted vs introverted F10 and 211) may be somewhat of an indicator. Not to mention how fickle American's are when it comes to quality reports regarding foreign manufacturers. The W212 is an incredibly popular car out here, so much so that as a driver of one I would like to see Sales calm down to be honest, and it seems like its buyers range from the usual older conservative folk that buy these cars, to young'ins who mod them up and are attracted to the very aggressive character lying in that design.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

This is interesting to me as well. If you follow the charts, the E60 was killing the W211, and the W212 instantly not only caught up, but raced past and has stayed ahead. Like I said before, regardless of how close the F10 and W212 Sedans are, it's clear that the W212 has brought major market share back to M-B. Also, the E60's sales increasing rapidly after a couple-few years on the market was interesting. The F10 should very well outsell the E60 off of general inflation alone, but I feel that the E60's numbers may have been more impressive for its time? Idk.

Regarding Americans, I think the E60 and W212 being so similar in styling ideals (extroverted vs introverted F10 and 211) may be somewhat of an indicator. Not to mention how fickle American's are when it comes to quality reports regarding foreign manufacturers. The W212 is an incredibly popular car out here, so much so that as a driver of one I would like to see Sales calm down to be honest, and it seems like its buyers range from the usual older conservative folk that buy these cars, to young'ins who mod them up and are attracted to the very aggressive character lying in that design.

The last E generation of BMW's was a real disappointment in terms of quality. MB stepped it's game up with the W212 and therefore won that race. My 08' e92 was a rattle fest and the '11 X5 in the garage isn't that far off which is why I think the new ML's may sell significantly more until we see the quality improvement that's been spreading across the line with the introduction of the Fxx model.

 

[Merc1]

I still don't see how you guys think the E "caught up" with the 5 when you don't know what portion of the E is coupes, wagons and convertibles...... The E didn't have those coupe/convertible numbers included before. I don't see why that is so hard to grasp. The current E should outsell the 5 in the U.S. since the sedan is on the only thing the 5 has compared to the coupe, convertible and wagon of the E. The 5GT doesn't sell at all. Its a flop. All of this just guesswork until someone provides the breakout for what type of E Mercedes sells and how many of them.


M

 

[K-A]

Hypothesizing, I'd say that it would make sense that the E Sedan outsells the 5 Sedan, taking into account what I'd *guess* the E-Coupe sells, and what I guess the 5 GT sells. Also, there's no way to really qualify just how many 5 GT's account for 5er Sales as well.

What is also to be noted is how the F10 was just in its introductory year, which usually should be a models best selling year, and also how BMW outsold M-B, but M-B keeping a lead in the E/5 category.... taking into account we don't know exact Sedan VS Sedan numbers, also it's impressive to the E considering how the E60 had a big lead over the W211.

We won't know, so all we can do is hypothesize at this point. Mine is that the logistics say the E Sedan should be ahead of the 5 Sedan. Also, I remember Scott saying that the E Sedan was outselling the 5 Sedan just a few months ago.... for what it's worth.

 

[Merc1]

Scott rarely knows what he's talking about when it comes to sales, especially in the U.S. Again, K/A all guesswork. What I don't get is why you and others try to pass it off as fact. Bottom line is that no one knows because the E's sales breakout data isn't available.


M

 

[EnI]

Perhaps in the US market the sales advantage of F10 over E60 isn't as big as elsewhere. And perhaps 5er sedan is selling worse than E-class sedan. Who knows why.

Yet globally the F10/F11 5er is the best selling 5er EVER! By far!

It's been outselling the E-class & A6 with ease (2011 global sales - sedan & wagon only: 310,050 units of 5er vs 244,341 units of E-class vs 229,200 units of A6) .


Also as a family (sedan + wagon + GT) the 5er is more successful than E-class family (sedan + wagon + coupe + cabrio):
Est 334,000 of 5er badged vehicles were sold in 2011 worldwide vs 305,835 of E-class badged vehicles.

In the 2011 sales report MB also includeed CLS sales figures in the so-called "E-Class segment" - reporting total global sales of 338,368 vehicles in this "E-class segment" (32,533 of them being the CLS cars).



BMW 5-Series (sedan + wagon) global sales:

1999: 201,350
2000: 193,303
2001: 193,948
2002: 172,323
2003: 185,481
2004: 229,589
2005: 228,389
2006: 232,192
2007: 230,845
2008: 202,287
2009: 172,931 (175,983 incl. F07 5er GT)
2010: 211,968 (238,454 incl. F07 5er GT)
2011: 310,050 (est. 334,000 incl. F07 5er GT)


The 2011 sales figure is a huge increase - not even compared to the last year (+46.3%), or to the 2004 (+35%) - the first full year of E60/E61 sales ... but even compared to the 5er & E60 all-time-high record sales in the blooming 2006 (+33.5%), when economy was at its peak.

IMHO that's very impressive what F10/F11 is doing!

Eg. E60 was able to make "only" 24% jump in its first full year compared to introduction year sales. While F10's result was a 46.3%% increase over its introduction year sales. Globally, of course.

The figures show F10/F11 is much better selling model than E60/E61.

 

[Sunny]

Figures for for E sales in the US include - E sedan, E coupe, E convertible, E wagon and AMG E sedan (and I think even AMG wagon starting sometime end of last year).

5 series sales figures (till now) includes 5 sedan and 5GT. Period.

If someone thinks the 5GT sales in the US is anywhere close to as E coupe, E convertible, E wagon and AMG E combined together, please pass on whatever you are smoking, cause it is some fukin good shit.

 

[Zafiro]

E-class comes equipped with AMG kit in the base price in US. I really wonder why, whats the reason behind it?

 

[Ham8]

Perhaps in the US market the sales advantage of F10 over E60 isn't as big as elsewhere. And perhaps 5er sedan is selling worse than E-class sedan. Who knows why.

Yet globally the F10/F11 5er is the best selling 5er EVER! By far!

It's been outselling the E-class & A6 with ease (2011 global sales - sedan & wagon only: ~286,000 units of 5er vs 244,341 units of E-class vs 229,200 units of A6) .


Also as a family (sedan + wagon + GT) the 5er is more successful than E-class family (sedan + wagon + coupe + cabrio):
310,055 of 5er badged vehicles were sold in 2011 worldwide vs 305,835 of E-class badged vehicles.

MB also include CLS sales figures in the so-called "E-Class segment" - reporting total global sales of 338,368 vehicles (32,533 of them being the CLS cars).



BMW 5-Series (sedan + wagon) global sales:

1999: 201,350
2000: 193,303
2001: 193,948
2002: 172,323
2003: 185,481
2004: 229,589
2005: 228,389
2006: 232,192
2007: 230,845
2008: 202,287
2009: 172,931 (175,983 incl. F07 5er GT)
2010: 211,968 (238,454 incl. F07 5er GT)
2011: 286,000 est. (310,050 incl. F07 5er GT)

The 2011 figure is a huge increase - not even compared to last year (+35%) or 2004 (+25%) - the first full year of E60/E61 sales ... but even compared to to the 5er & E60 all-time-high record in the blooming 2006 (+23%), when economy was at its peak. IMHO that's very impressive.
Eg. E60 was able to make "only" 24% jump in its first full year compared to introduction year sales. F10's result was 35% increase. Globally, of course.

BMW 5-series figure 310050 its f10 and f11!
Proof:in the news they write for six months 5 series sold 158,562 units
BMW Group
but in Quarterly Report we see that they meant only f10 and f11
http://www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_prod/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/investor_relations/finanzberichte/zwischenberichte/2011/0611/_pdf/Q2_2011_BMW_Group_engl_Online.pdf

 

[EnI]

BMW 5-series figure 310050 its f10 and f11!
Proof:in the news they write for six months 5 series sold 158,562 units
http://www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_prod/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/investor_relations/corporate_news/news/2011/vertriebsmeldung_juli_2011.html]BMW Group[/url]
but in Quarterly Report we see that they meant only f10 and f11
http://www.bmwgroup.com/bmwgroup_prod/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/investor_relations/finanzberichte/zwischenberichte/2011/0611/_pdf/Q2_2011_BMW_Group_engl_Online.pdf

Yes, I recheked the figures. You are right!

310,050 number include F10 & F11 sales only! So that makes about 334,000 units of all 5er branded cars sold in 2011 - incl. 5er GT F07.

Detailed report for 2011 sales hasn't been published yet. Yet as by the end of September 2011 (figure form Q3 BMW AG Financial Report) BMW sold 187,362 5er sedans & 45,725 5er tourings (total: 233.087 units - meaning in average 77,696 per quarter - so adding another quarterly result to the Q3 figure, and we get the annual sales figure around 310k units).

So, the right 2011 sales figures for 5er sedan & wagon are:

2011: 310,050 (334,000 est. - incl. F07 5er GT)

The 2011 sales figure is a huge increase - not even compared to the last year (+46.3%), or to the 2004 (+35%) - the first full year of E60/E61 sales ... but even compared to the 5er & E60 all-time-high record sales in the blooming 2006 (+33.5%), when economy was at its peak.

IMHO that's very impressive what F10/F11 is doing!

Eg. E60 was able to make "only" 24% jump in its first full year compared to introduction year sales. While F10's result was a 46.3%% increase over its introduction year sales. Globally, of course.

The figures show F10/F11 is much better selling model than E60/E61.


Americans are a bit weird ... not going crazy for F10/F11. Everybody else does. While it was vice versa in E60 case.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

E-class comes equipped with AMG kit in the base price in US. I really wonder why, whats the reason behind it?

People in the U.S don't take we'll to wagons. MBZ has to sweeten the deal to attract buyers.