Lucid Lucid Air Concept

[Sunny]

The video was nice (except the sustainability lady jesus who the hell gave her that job...) However, this brand has proven almost nothing so far. It's 90% Marketing right now. Let us judge this in two years when the first customers have driven it.

Agree. Like Tesla found, manufacturing at scale is hard and expensive. We have seen other promising prototypes to never see it make it to the market. I do hope they make it.

 

[martinbo]

It's easy to make a car. Much less so to produce it.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Agree. Like Tesla found, manufacturing at scale is hard and expensive. We have seen other promising prototypes to never see it make it to the market. I do hope they make it.

The forging of collaborations will be of utmost essence methinks. Newer, dedicated companies such as Tesla, Lucid, Rivian, Bollinger, Rimac, etc. have so much to offer in terms of cutting-edge innovative technologies-but often lack the resources to develope and produce high-volume applications (highly scalable mass-production platforms, for instance). This is where forward-thinking legacy manufacturers and suppliers come into the equation. We are witnessing the first blossoms of the process with both Elon Musk as well as Peter Rawlinson expressing their desire to collaborate with large established manufacturers with the objective of the rapid proliferation of BEVs'. VAGs' intentions of supplying its' assortment of BEV platforms to interested outside manufacturers (FoMoCo being the first) is commonly acknowledged, as is Porsches' 15.5% participation in Mate Rimacs' operation.

 

[asrapid1]

In this video from 9 min mark. The vehicle in the middle. It looks like smaller Lucid air?

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[Deleted member 1071]

In this video from 9 min mark. The vehicle in the middle. It looks like smaller Lucid air?

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Difficult to tell.

It does appear to me to be somewhat sleeker with a faster roofline. Then again, maybe nothing more than an optical illusion.

 

[TopspeedPT]

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[Ozy]

In this video from 9 min mark. The vehicle in the middle. It looks like smaller Lucid air?

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Yes and they said in the presentation that next year they will present a new, smaller and cheaper car than the Air. I think it will be like an E class competitor if the Air is at the top.

 

[Cashmere]

I agree that it is harder to manufacture the car. So long as their investors don't back out, I have more faith in Lucid building this car than I have in BMW delivering a compelling electric car in the next 12 months. Lucid has the right kind of people responsible for manufacturing and its certainly not their first rodeo:

 

[Mii]

In this video from 9 min mark. The vehicle in the middle. It looks like smaller Lucid air?

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From this video, Peter Rawlinson lifted the cover briefly prior to showcasing Project Gravity @ 15:30. It does look like a different model from Lucid Air (different front facia with spoiler, hood) could be a compact premium segment? If it's compact premium with technology/design/performance and type of interior layout and quality, it will be win for Lucid.

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[SCOTT27]

I agree that it is harder to manufacture the car. So long as their investors don't back out, I have more faith in Lucid building this car than I have in BMW delivering a compelling electric car in the next 12 months. Lucid has the right kind of people responsible for manufacturing and its certainly not their first rodeo:

Have faith. Because BMW will deliver two. The i4 and the iX(iNext).

 

[mini_cooper4]

Have faith. Because BMW will deliver two. The i4 and the iX(iNext).

But Cashmere said "compelling".

 

[Deleted member 1071]

But Cashmere said "compelling".

...and repeating what several industry figures have recently elaborated: "One cannot produce a compelling electric automobile without a dedicated BEV platform".

 

[AndreB]

"One cannot produce a compelling electric automobile without a dedicated BEV platform".

The current BEV's are already pretty good, just slightly expensive.

Without an extensive charging network BEV adoption is tiny. We need proper in city infrastructure, that's where majority of people live.
Then people will starting buying them in masses because ICE doesn't make sense anymore and the production cost will get lower.

We are waiting for retarded politicians to take the measures.
Air pollution and climate warming is an emergency but governments are more worried and pumping billions into coronavirus.

This world is f*cked!

 

[KiwiRob]

I agree that it is harder to manufacture the car. So long as their investors don't back out, I have more faith in Lucid building this car than I have in BMW delivering a compelling electric car in the next 12 months. Lucid has the right kind of people responsible for manufacturing and its certainly not their first rodeo:

When you look a the people they have working for them I don't believe they will have any problem productionising this car. Unlike Tesla they have also made a huge effort with the paint shop, pain I believe is critical for a high priced car, pain on Tesla's is always nasty, along with misfitting panels and generally poor reliability. I think just about everyone I know who has owned a Tesla has had motors replaced.

 

[Cashmere]

We are waiting for retarded politicians to take the measures.

This world is f*cked!

I see this to be a common narrative on this forum especially from some of the European members of blaming politicians (but never the car companies) and I disagree with it. Car companies don’t need to wait for politicians to build EV infrastructure. Every major car company owns thousands of car dealerships across the globe including locations in crowded city centres.

Every dealership has:
- land
- electricity
- workshop with technicians
- Free coffee
- Safe environment to charge your car

If every parking stall was turned into an EV charging station at every dealership, the infrastructure problem could be solved in less than a year. All the legacy carmakers have 99% of resources they need to solve the problem but they’re lacking the 1% desire to make the change.

 

[Matski]

and I disagree with it

Every dealership has:

You can disagree with it of course, but every town does not have a dealership. We have one, a Vauxhall dealership. If the choice is; buy an Ampera, or use one of the numerous fossil fuel stations to refuel the overwhelming majority of vehicle stock on the road, what do you think people are going to do?

Perhaps charging your EV works for you, but I wouldn't assume it will work as well for everybody.

I'd blame politicians because they are the ones mandating and legislating for increased costs of ICE ownership, whilst not also providing a cost effective alternative.

 

[AndreB]

Most dealerships are located on the outskirts of the city, no way I'm going to drive 20-30 minutes to my Lucid dealership and wait another half to charge the car, if a spot is available.

Gas stations are in every neighborhood, sometimes 2-3 within 500m distance.

Electricity is very easy to transport, the city administration can put charging points in every parking block and voila we have the infrastructure in place.

But we are governed by old folks with short term thinking or no thinking at all.

 

[Sunny]

every town does not have a dealership. We have one, a Vauxhall dealership.

That is a little bit reduction to absurdity, right? I doubt a town with one Vauxhall dealership was what he had in his mind...

And not to be disparaging, but given population distribution, I think it might be okay if those smaller towns are not in the forefront of any EV adoption push.

Also given smaller towns tend to have larger ratio of independent homes to high rise apartments, charging stations might not be as crucial there to compared to a larger city.

I think the larger point being made is just like Tesla didn't wait for any Government mandate to develop a charging network, others shouldn't either. If not for philanthropic reasons, out of greed and sense of self preservation.

I'd blame politicians because they are the ones mandating and legislating for increased costs of ICE ownership...

a. Has the cost of ICE ownership really been increasing where you are cause of legislations or mandates? That is definitely not the case here AFAIK. If anything, it has gone down cause the cars are more fuel efficient now cause of the efficiency mandates.

b. Are you including the cost of emissions - increased health care costs and catastrophic effects of climate change in your cost of ICE ownership? Guessing not. But that is the cost that is really increasing and what we should be concerned about.

 

[Matski]

That is a little bit reduction to absurdity, right? I doubt a town with one Vauxhall dealership was what he had in his mind...

I doubt Cashmere considers any situation that doesn't line up with his narrative.

And not to be disparaging, but given population distribution, I think it might be okay if those smaller towns are not in the forefront of any EV adoption push.

I made the point about being very average, because from a population point of view, this town is very much the average. For EV's to become mainstream they have to represent a better solution than we already have in these areas, simple as that.

Also given smaller towns tend to have larger ratio of independent homes to high rise apartments, charging stations might not be as crucial there to compared to a larger city.

Maybe. I've looked for stats one way or the other in the UK and not found anything useful. Our housing stock is varied, those buying a Model X will no doubt be fine - by virtue of their level of wealth and therefore housing type... at the poorer end of the spectrum the probability of useful home charging is less, and that's not because of high rise, it's because of on street parking, or parking 20-30m from the front door.

a. Really? Has the cost of ICE ownership really been increasing where you are cause of legislations or mandates? That is definitely not the case here AFAIK. If anything, it has gone down cause the cars are more fuel efficient now cause of the efficiency mandates.

It's case dependent of course, but we set tax levels based on economy and emissions. UK government gets around £40Bn in taxation of motorists and those in EV's dodge a fair portion of this. The government is actively looking for solutions to replace lost revenue in the future without dissuading people from EV's since EV's won't solve transport infrastructure issues but those solutions still need funding. We'll have to see how it ends up, but everytime you hear about a city "banning" diesel or combustion engines, or legislation passing in order to allow such action, or incentives for EV's, or tax breaks for EV's, I believe it's penalising the general public and the ICE driving motorist, moreso than the EV driving motorist.

b. Are you including the cost of emissions - increased health care costs and catastrophic effects of climate change in your cost of ICE ownership? Guessing not. But that is the cost that is really increasing and what we should be concerned about.

No... let's say I'm not, care to tell me what they are? I mean in £ value... buying a new EV versus me owning my shagged out old ICEV for another few years... what is that healthcare cost to me, what is that environmental cost to me?

 

[Sunny]

I doubt Cashmere considers any situation that doesn't line up with his narrative.

I think you are just projecting here. The notion that manufacturers could do more to improve the charging network is not some extreme narrative, so I don't know what warrants this bitter reaction?

I made the point about being very average, because from a population point of view, this town is very much the average. For EV's to become mainstream they have to represent a better solution than we already have in these areas, simple as that.

Sure, but the reasonable assumption would be real estate is not prohibitively expensive either in a town with one dealership, so setting up additional charging stations should not be too difficult when the time comes. Again, EVs are not going to go mainstream everywhere at once. It is okay if EVs don't go mainstream in every average town in next few years.

It's case dependent of course, but we set tax levels based on economy and emissions. UK government gets around £40Bn in taxation of motorists and those in EV's dodge a fair portion of this. The government is actively looking for solutions to replace lost revenue in the future without dissuading people from EV's since EV's won't solve transport infrastructure issues but those solutions still need funding. We'll have to see how it ends up, but everytime you hear about a city "banning" diesel or combustion engines, or legislation passing in order to allow such action, or incentives for EV's, or tax breaks for EV's, I believe it's penalising the general public and the ICE driving motorist, moreso than the EV driving motorist.

I read and re-read that, but missed any specific legislation that actually concretely increased your cost of ICE ownership. All I read is just general anxiety about the future and fear of being unfairly penalized. Understandable, people fear change, but not helpful either.

No... let's say I'm not, care to tell me what they are? I mean in £ value... buying a new EV versus me owning my shagged out old ICEV for another few years... what is that healthcare cost to me, what is that environmental cost to me?

Who is forcing you to give up your your "shagged out old ICEV" and get a new EV? If you are happy with it, you should continue to drive it. I am happy with my shagged old M3, and I continue to, instead of going on a bitter rant about how the world is out to screw me over.

As for the health care costs of continuing to use ICEV as a society, guessing that is a just a rhetorical question and you are not the kind who cares about another's health. If you genuinely cared you would have tried Googling. There is much research done and available on both the impact of emissions on health and cost of climate change. It is not as if scientists woke up one fine morning and decided to discourage the use of fossil fuels just to piss of few petrol heads.

And FWIW, in US - the economic value of health impacts associated with PM(2.5) and PM(2.5) precursors (NO(x) and SO(2)) on a per kilowatt hour basis for oil is estimated to be $.08 - $.19/kwh (1). Which, given an average of ~25 mpg in US for cars, light trucks and SUVs works out to be $.10 - 0.25/mile. And given a total ~3 trillion miles travelled annually in US by light vehicles gives a total of $300 - $750 billion annually. Per capita among the tax paying population that works out to $2000-$5000/year for US. It also causes about ~200,000 premature deaths in US annually (2). There is also the very unjust fact that pollution affects children's health disproportionately (3). I don't know what dollar figure to attach to that. I am sure similar research exists for UK/Europe too.

1. Economic value of U.S. fossil fuel electricity health impacts
2. Effects of fossil fuel and total anthropogenic emission removal on public health and climate
3. Pollution from Fossil-Fuel Combustion is the Leading Environmental Threat to Global Pediatric Health and Equity: Solutions Exist