Joy is BMW.

[rollo]

In all honesty, if there is a lack of understanding it's due to the fact that you think we are on the same page as you.

I'm sorry, but BMW brand is not about their products? Really? Last time I checked BMW makes cars and that's about it. Even the brand as a whole, just makes cars. It would be different if BMW was like Honda where they do a ton of different things and they said something like "We are not just about our products" because ultimately they do robotics research and a whole lot more. So for them to say something like that makes sense, but for a company only known for one type of product, it doesn't make sense to bring in "the Brand as a whole" when all you do is make cars.

So, please be clear about what you are referring to when you say "Brand as a whole".

ps. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten Motorrad.



Dude, I have no idea how you came to this. When I see joy and having to do with a car it usually means sporty, because I enJOY sporty driving. When you get the average buyer, like my sis, cousins, uncles, parents, who know nothing about the "joys of driving", they are not connecting it to "joy" to comfort or any of the other things you listed. People who are not enthusiasts don't give a damn about "joys of driving". All they care about is two things, Image and how the car drives. So this one word "Joy" has absolutely nothing to do what the campaign is trying to get across. IMO.

I'm pretty sure that if any of my friends or family members see the ad of the people jumping, the first thing they all will think is "This is pretty dumb" and "why the F__k would you be jumping into your BMW, it's not the freakin General Lee (Dukes of Hazard Reference)."

Also NR, don't choose a collateral theme/message that erodes or is contrary to the brands major themes/strengths!

BMW could have appealed to the broader audience without alienating the base.

I can't believe this campaign was approved.

 

[NarutoRamen]

LOL...I just made my sister watch the jump for joy vid. Her response to it:

"OK.....so they are jumping into their cars?" I said that this is BMW's new campaign. Does this make sense to you? Does this connect with BMW? She said "No. They are jumping inside the cars. You can jump for joy for anything, not just a BMW."

BTW, she is a potential BMW buyer and she is currently looking at a new 3er and I'm trying to move her into the 335's direction.

 

[EnI]

I agree the "Jump for joy" ad is odd (if not stupid - I agree). I don't even know where it is aired. The brief says jumping people represents true BMW owners & drivers: dynamic, agile, flexible, sporty - just like BMW cars.

But regarding Joy campaign ... I'm talking about Story of Joy ad - which is aired worldwide.

@AdvEvo

Btw, here goes the attitude of BMW aficionados ... denying any other BMW car than hardcore ones (Ms & top-end engined BMWs).

I can assure you 320d & X1 xDrive20d are true BMWs as well. 320d completely satisfy my needs (for BMW).


@Naruto

Yes, brand is represented by the products. And the main aim when promoting brand is to promote products behind - to push the sales.
BUT ... Brand identity is much more than the products it represents. It also features other attributes - beyond products. Perhaps eg. connected to company itself (corporate level), or to activities marketing performs ... not to mention non-automotive design activities.

The joy campaign communicates car is not just a boring machine for A to B transportation but also a device / object that brings you joy - and BMW brand & cars are promoted & advertised in that way.

Let's say joy campaign is more sustainable. Since hardcore performance currently appeals to a very limited customer group. Sustainability is much more accepted. Therefore BMW packed core BMW values in sustainable package - and here you have the joy campaign as a result.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

And why are you being rude to Eni and asking him to go to another forum.

Yes, stop it...that's my job.


Only joking Tine.

 

[EnI]

Yes, stop it...that's my job.
Only joking Tine.

I thought you'd handed off the baton to the new guys.

 

[Yperion]

I agree the "Jump for joy" ad is odd (if not stupid - I agree). I don't even know where it is aired. The brief says jumping people represents true BMW owners & drivers: dynamic, agile, flexible, sporty - just like BMW cars.

Just like BMW cars used to be i would say , the 5 GT has already been criticized as being too heavy and too comfort oriented...

Now that BMWs are less sporty than even the commercials have to convince us of the opposite...

 

[klier]

Just like BMW cars used to be i would say , the 5 GT has already been criticized as being too heavy and too comfort oriented...

Now that BMWs are less sporty than even the commercials have to convince us of the opposite...

The 5er GT gets nothing but praise for what it is Yannis. Nice try. The regular F10 5er sedan will not be too heavy or too comfort orientated.

 

[SCOTT27]

But the 5er Gran Turismo has turned convention on it's head.
Although the question marks remain about the overall concept it has proved to be a car worthy of the BMW name in terms of dynamics and something new in the search for superior comfort.
BMW have a susbstantial interest in this car when it arrives on the market later this month.

Joy is BMW is the first step of seperating BMW from the COMPETITORS that mimic the BMW feel and image in their campaigns.
Which some have begun to do even more intentionally.
Even though the poor handling of their products does not match up to a BMW.

Joy is about spreading the core message of BMW to a wider audience.
In this day and age you cannot just pander to the enthusiasts only.
Whilst you might disagree with the advent of an M SAV . These cars are already finding customers.

Joy is also laying the ground work for our assault on the premium compact segment. Cars which will be smaller , but without compromising efficiency or dynamic ability , cars which will be aimed at the youthful demographic.
With a variety of forms which we have seen with the first of this assault the X1 , but there will be a range of variants with a range of sustainable powertrains , some will be lightweight and sporty and offer more dynamic ability , efficiency for cars that are higher priced.

Next year is equally significant for BMW for we begin with the new 5er and then we aim to upset the recent interpreters of the mid sized SAV segment with the all new X3 - A car that takes the best of the E83 and the worst and improves it to fit it's segment. X3 will be a surprise for many
And then there is the 6er which will share a lot in common with the 5er but offer more than just a country crossing 2dr Gran Turismo.
In 2010 there will be a lot more emphasis on Vision ideas under Project-i as sustainable concepts that will not just be full hybrid or mild hybrid but with regular petrol engine.

 

[EnI]

Just like BMW cars used to be i would say , the 5 GT has already been criticized as being too heavy and too comfort oriented..

5er GT is more a exception than a rule - it was created to retain a certain customer pool (elderly, fleet buyers etc) who usually shift to MB since being more comfortable ... And now BMW offers an alternative - in a bit different shape (with additional value: versatile space) not in sedan form (so not exactly a direct rival to MB E-class). And to lure in some MB buyers who didn't want a BMW in that segment due being not enough comfortable.

Regarding comfort ... as said many times: customer feedback has shown (for years now) they want more comfort in BMW cars. And BMW are delivering that - in small doses. Eg. in Adaptive Drive form - where suspension can be set to driver's / passenger's needs.

If a company has a significant customer pool who wants a certain feature in new products it's only logical to satisfy customer's demand - within brand core values of course: meaning there still have to be advantage over rivals in typical BMW manner eg. in agility, dynamism etc.

Why eg. Porsche can still offer extremely sporty cars (eg. over BMW)? Because they hae different customer pool with different demands.

And a marketing / customer driven company usually follows customer's needs - and address them.

So, before start to criticize BMW product & advertising policy mind that BMW customer pool increased by over 70% in last 10 years. Meaning the customer structure is now different than 10 years ago, and even more different than 20 years ago in 80s. And the needs & tastes are a bit different today then 10 or 20 years ago.

It's a bit irrational to expect a company won't address customer's demand. Do you expect company to eg. say "Go to MB. We are BMW ,we build stiff & sporty cars - and that's it. F..off!" Of course not.

And there is limited demand for sporty sedans in the world - and since BMW want to grow, they lure in new customers - and those new customers have some specific demands.

So the brand is slowely adapting to new customer pool. A dynamic process. Sure that means some hardcore aficionados (who are a minority now) can feel neglected. But that's life. Many new customers have come to BMW, and many have left. Customer pool is still dynamic (fluctuation going on) - despite high level of brand loyalty.




Sure thses adaptations & changes have to subtle & slow - and still staying within core brand values. Perhaps not at 99% level, but at eg. 75%.

So lesser sharpness (in general) is just an adaptation to customer demand.

Sure I understand the anger - since BMW fanatics are thinking they are left behind - which the find extremely unfair since they see themselves as basis for brand's success. But that's life. That's business. And gratitude is obviously not forever - ot at least not a constant priority. Sure there will be a BMW car available in the future for true aficionados as well - but they are sick & tired of waiting. But I'm sure the loyalty & patience will be awarded in the end!

 

[south]

But the 5er Gran Turismo has turned convention on it's head.
[...]
BMW have a susbstantial interest in this car when it arrives on the market later this month.

_____________________________________________

Whilst you might disagree with the advent of an M SAV . These cars are already finding customers.

Do you hear me Tine? How could Scott know that? Also, I love the difference in Scott's wording, finding customers sounds worse than substantial interest...


Best regards,
south

 

[gnx]

If you compare the sound that comes out of the N43 to the sound of the m54 you don't get joy, you get misery, ENI.

I don't know about yourself, but unfortunately I pay for my BMWs, quite a lot. At the moment I own three. The oldest is an e86 M. The JOY from that one made me buy the others.

 

[EnI]

Do you hear me Tine? How could Scott know that? Also, I love the difference in Scott's wording, finding customers sounds worse than substantial interest...

Very easy. 5er GT is a completely new car that was HEAVILY promoted - on special events, and EVERY event BMW (or BMW national branches) have sponsored. Meaning: they used every opportunity to show, present & promote the car. And therefore A LOT of targeted customers saw that car - and expresses interest.

While for X6M / X5M there were no special events - except dealer / representative presentations.

There are some pre-orders - I guess some marketing guys know the numbers, but such pre-orders are not obligatory. And everybody can change their minds.

Sure X5M / X6M cars cost a lot more than 5er GT - therefore it is expected the demand of such special product will be very limited compared to other bMW models. Even to 5er GT.

ALL M cars are selling very slowly in the last months due to recession ... So I guess X5M / X6M won't be an exceptions. But it is expected the demand will increase after the crisis is over.

Why did the BMW offer such cars in such times? Due the same reason any other carmaker is doing the same thing: such projects were greenlighted way before crisis started, and they werr too deep in development to be canceled. Therefore MB SLS, Lexus LF-A, Audi R8 V10 & Spyder etc.

And sure Scott usually knows more than me. He is a part of BMW every day. While I'm not. And I'm sure he has more sources than I do. But as said many times: M sales figures are very hard to get, since they are limited to only closed circuit within Sales department.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Regarding comfort ... as said many times: customer feedback has shown (for years now) they want more comfort in BMW cars. And BMW are delivering that - in small doses. Eg. in Adaptive Drive form - where suspension can be set to driver's / passenger's needs.

And a marketing / customer driven company usually follows customer's needs - and address them.

It's a bit irrational to expect a company won't address customer's demand. Do you expect company to eg. say "Go to MB. We are BMW ,we build stiff & sporty cars - and that's it. F..off!" Of course not.

I completely agree with you on this. If the customers demand it, then the company should follow suit. Because, after all, the company has to stay in business and customers' dollar votes count.

The 5erGT is comfy? I have no problems with that. It's an SUV-ish utility thingy, it should be comfy. The next 5er being comfy? I have no issues with that as long as we can still tell the difference between the 5er and the E-class. Neutering the M brand? That is something I don't agree with and MANY others on this forum. There is a reason people get the M cars and thats because they want an everyday sports car, whether it be in sedan or coupe form. If you guys neuter the M brand than that makes you no different than AMG, but at least AMG isn't neutering their brand because that's just how they have always been.

 

[south]

While for X6M / X5M there were no special events - except dealer / representative presentations.

Thanks for your reply Tine!

There is some kind of special event for the X6M, but a rather comical one. BMW "invited" current M owners to the M experience on the Nuerburgring where you'd drive an X6M. It was worded like "be part of an exclusive group and drive the new X6M on the Ring, even before its market launch". A little downturn was the price, 1.800 € They really know how to get M owners trying out the new one...


Best regards,
south

 

[EnI]

I completely agree with you on this. If the customers demand it, then the company should follow suit. Because, after all, the company has to stay in business and customers' dollar votes count.

Neutering the M brand? That is something I don't agree with and MANY others on this forum. There is a reason people get the M cars and thats because they want an everyday sports car, whether it be in sedan or coupe form. If you guys neuter the M brand than that makes you no different than AMG, but at least AMG isn't neutering their brand because that's just how they have always been.

Here you go ... the latest M philosophy:

"M vehicles must be able to be two vehicles in one — on one hand a pure sporting machine with the highest levels of performance, and on the other, like any BMW it can be used for every daily need with the same comfort and capability of any vehicle in the range."

It's what customers want - 2 vehicles in one: a sporty beast capable of comfortable daily driving.

 

[NarutoRamen]

"M vehicles must be able to be two vehicles in one — on one hand a pure sporting machine with the highest levels of performance, and on the other, like any BMW it can be used for every daily need with the same comfort and capability of any vehicle in the range."

Bro, that is a very generic statement. My E36 M3 was exactly what you highlighted. Back in its heyday it was the best handling car in America and personally it was one of the most comfortable cars I've owned. Hell, it was even more comfortable than my current A4. I used my M3 daily. I went to school in it, went to parties in it, raced in it, drove my GF around in it, drove my friends around in it, drove my family around in it, and even drove on 6 hour long trips in it. You have NO idea how much I miss my M3.

 

[EnI]

^

Yes, but customers demand more comfort with every new Mk ... And then it's up to BMW marketing to decide the right portion (of the comfort), and up to M engineers to engineer a car in a way that will also be a sporty beast.

But as said many times: it's all up to standard chassis - if it is capable, then M engineers have an easy work to do. If it is not - then heavy modifications / re-engineering has to be done (like in eg. E61 M5 Touring rear axle) - which is very costly, and usually way out of budget limits ... making the car less profitable. And still the main goal is to sell cars with certain profit - otherwise it makes no sense to run a business, selling cars without a profit - making then just for the fun of it. Such romantic times are over in serious companies.

Brands & products evolve & adapt to new needs & demands by customers over the years / decades.

The barnd essence can be interpreted in many ways. Eg. what has A-class to do with MB luxurious status? Or Porsche Cayenne with Porsche racing-car status? Absolutely nothing. But it can be interpreted as such with a magic help of propaganda: making A-class the most luxurious hatch / mini-minivan, and Cayenne the most racin-SUV ever. etc And therefore eg. BMW X1 can also be interpreted as "the most dynamic & agile SUV in its class". So ...

It's nothing wrong with brand evolving & maturing. I would call that "neutering" or "diluting" - let's call it refinement. Making it less raw ... but more fine & mature. Every brand goes that way.

Sure some brands have more troubles - since having many imitators & direct rivals. Therefore it's very hard to retain a benchmark status & the competitive advantage over rivals - the gap is closing, there is more choices / alternatives for customers than ever. Fight for customers is fierce.

Therefore new segments are created, new customer pools & niches are found, new tech & innovations are being used etc.

It's a dynamic process of constant adaptations. Just like in every person's life. You live, you adapt, you change. Nobody is the same as eg. 10 or 20 years ago. Maturing progressively. Loosing "sharpness". You bet your granny was "sharper" 50 years ago than today. It's the same with brands / products - constantly reacting & adapting to new challenges. Sure - like any individual - they try hard to remain same core character as they have ever been ... yet projected into new / contemporary times.

Marketing - and so the (strategic) brand management & steering is not that simple as you may think.




PS:
I do not understand the fact some people are now thinking that the existence of X5M / X6M, and non-existence of eg. Z4M or M3 CSL will make current or even more the new M3 worse. Or eg. even diluting the brand image ....
Just like the presence of Cayenne & Panamera, and absence of Carrera GT DOES NOT make 911 worse, and Porsche brand less appealing - even more: due to the new products the prand is even more appealing: to the completely new customers who else would have never bought a Porsche. Eg. Cayenne driver woud never buy a 911 - since he / she prefers an SUV - but now he can have a Porsche.
Same goes with BMW and X5M / X6M, 5er GT, X1 etc ...

 

[Mr Robert]

It is all a matter of numbers. If the comfort junkies are more profitable as a customer group, their needs will be catered to, at the cost of those who liked the original product. All we can do is hope that the latter group is not a loyal one.

 

[EnI]

It is all a matter of numbers. If the comfort junkies are more profitable as a customer group, their needs will be catered to, at the cost of those who liked the original product. All we can do is hope that the latter group is not a loyal one.

Customer loyalty depends on particular segment, and particular market - in some cases it's very high, and in some cases not very much.

But until migration is positive (more customers coming in than leaving) there will be no change.

Yet be sure even the hardcore BMW aficionados will be catered as well in the future - but not in every segment & every market. But that was also the case in the past (eg. with M3 CSL - only available in this segment, and not in all markets around the globe).


*****

Imagine eg. the Audi case: when they've got a lot of new customers unsatisfied with MB & BMW quality & reliability (and also design in BMW case). But now when new BMW & MB models have addressed those issues it is expected by MB & BMW many former customers will come back (from Audi). That could hurt Audi sales in some markets - not in nominal number (since markets are growing) but in market share figure.

It's different when you chose a particular product based on that product per se, or choosing it just because you are (currently) unsatisfied with your usual choice (the rival product).

Mind in most markets MB & BMW brands still have very high customer loyalty index.

 

[Mr Robert]

Yet be sure even the hardcore BMW aficionados will be catered as well in the future - but not in every segment & every market. But that was also the case in the past (eg. with M3 CSL - only available in this segment, and not in all markets around the globe).

I think this is a very good and sound approach. All segments and markets are not suitable for something like the CSL, or whatever concept might emerge. Not all segments are suitable, not all markets are receptive.

The CSL is a great example of what can be done and at the same time I think the market was not ready for it. There were actually quite a few buyers who thaught they were buying the image, not the product behind the image. These people were the ones that sold their cars with 1,000 kms on the clock. Maybe next time they will know.

I think this is a risk that has to be taken.