F1 FIA versus McLaren Fiasco Thread

[Centurion]

Now that Alonso has been involved with ruining this years championship for Mclaren, I seriously hope that he doesn't win the drivers championship. He's a snake, fake and all. There is no Mclaren spirit in him and he's probably ditch the team after this season.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Now that Alonso has been involved with ruining this years championship for Mclaren, I seriously hope that he doesn't win the drivers championship. He's a snake, fake and all. There is no Mclaren spirit in him and he's probably ditch the team after this season.

If it's true I hope Hamilton SHAMES him on the track. As you said...such a snake!

I do fear however that Alonso's development input has been integral to Mclaren's success this year. How will they cope if he leaves, and which TOP SHELF driver will replace him?

 

[Centurion]

If it's true I hope Hamilton SHAMES him on the track. As you said...such a snake!

I do fear however that Alonso's development input has been integral to Mclaren's success this year. How will they cope if he leaves, and which TOP SHELF driver will replace him?

Well now when Mclaren has been robbed of their potential 2008 victory all Alonso has done for the team can only be used to his own advantage in winning the drivers championship.

This is the worst possible scenario:

-Mclaren has lost all their gained points this season.
-Alonso wins drivers championship.
-Leaves Mclaren
-Mclaren participates in the 2008 with an amazing driver(Hamilton) but doesn't have a driver with expertise in developing and setting up a champion's car.
-2008 season turn out to be a fiasco for Mclaren.


I'm so freaking pissed right now.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Well now when Mclaren has been robbed of their potential 2008 victory all Alonso has done for the team can only be used to his own advantage in winning the drivers championship.

This is the worst possible scenario:

-Mclaren has lost all their gained points this season.
-Alonso wins drivers championship.
-Leaves Mclaren
-Mclaren participates in the 2008 with an amazing driver(Hamilton) but doesn't have a driver with expertise in developing and setting up a champion's car.
-2008 season turn out to be a fiasco for Mclaren.


I'm so freaking pissed right now.

Same here!

I thought Mclaren was just stripped of the 2007 constructors title, but will be able to compete for the 2008 one?

 

[NarutoRamen]

Wow...so looks like Alonso's genius-ness in setting up a car has come to light as taking other's strategy. I wonder how Alonso fans are going to defend this?

Mr.Mercedes: I think they have only been stripped of '07 but will be allowed to participate in '08. Remember, they have F1's cash cow, Hamilton.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Well it seems that Ron didn't beat Pedro and Alonso to the punch. check this out.

All three drivers responded. Mr. Hamilton responded that he had no information responsive to the FIA’s request. Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa both submitted e- mails to the FIA which the WMSC finds highly relevant. Subsequently (at McLaren’s request) both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa made written statements to the WMSC verifying that these e-mails were sent and received and offering context and explanations regarding the e-mails. The e-mails show unequivocally that both Mr. Alonso and Mr. de la Rosa received confidential Ferrari information via Coughlan; that both drivers knew that this information was confidential Ferrari information and that both knew that the information was being received by Coughlan from Stepney.

- Section 3.4 of FIA report.

So with this, it seems that Pedro and Alonso got scared that they might get caught and decided to hand over the information that they had.

 

[Bartek S.]

McLaren will not pay full penalty

McLaren will not have to pay the full amount of their $100 million penalty, according to team boss Ron Dennis.
The British squad were fined the money and thrown out of this year's constructors' championship at a hearing of the FIA World Motorsport Council in Paris over their role in Formula One's spying scandal.
But one line in the statement from the WMSC read: "The team will pay a fine equal to $100m, less the FOM income lost as a result of the points deduction.
And Dennis believes this means that the team's penalty has effectively been halved.
Dennis said: "Firstly, we will effectively still have as an offset the revenue from the points earned to date," McLaren boss Dennis said.
"That, about $70 million, will effectively half the size of the cheque we have to sign, if we ultimately accept this fine.
Dennis shrugged off any doubts about the team being unable to afford the financial penalty, claiming that drivers and staff would continue to be paid as normal.
"As you can see if you read our accounts, we turn over roughly 450-500 million dollars a year, and we are debt-free, so obviously we are a very strong company with phenomenal growth."
"I jokingly asked [Mercedes-Benz motorsport chief] Norbert [Haug] if he wanted to chip in half. I can't remember him answering."
Jamie O'Leary / Eurosport.

 

[bmwownage]

Replying back a few pages regarding whether Ferrari should be penalised. If Stephney was acting on his own as an individual without Ferrari approving it, if you accept that this is his 'own' actions and that Ferrari takes no responsibilities of it, then Mclaren has got an employee that was unapproved to take illegal actions on his own, the only difference is Mclaren as a team gained from it, but the employer has no idea, but whether or not the team gained is an issue, it's about the practice of those individuals. Afterall, assuming what the team bosses said were believable, this event started because of two employees not sticking to the rules, and now one is punished while one isn't. I reckon ripping them off their 2007 constructor's championship points is reasonable, afterall they did gain, but what is the $100million for?
And probably Ferrari will launch everything legal actions at Stephney just to keep themsevles protected..
Also I did not say that Ferrari bosses were the mastermind behind the scandal, all i was saying was, it COULD be.

Good news is Mclaren is fastest after the Friday practice at Spa.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Replying back a few pages regarding whether Ferrari should be penalised. If Stephney was acting on his own as an individual without Ferrari approving it, if you accept that this is his 'own' actions and that Ferrari takes no responsibilities of it, then Mclaren has got an employee that was unapproved to take illegal actions on his own, the only difference is Mclaren as a team gained from it, but the employer has no idea, but whether or not the team gained is an issue, it's about the practice of those individuals. Afterall, assuming what the team bosses said were believable, this event started because of two employees not sticking to the rules, and now one is punished while one isn't. I reckon ripping them off their 2007 constructor's championship points is reasonable, afterall they did gain, but what is the $100million for?
And probably Ferrari will launch everything legal actions at Stephney just to keep themsevles protected..
Also I did not say that Ferrari bosses were the mastermind behind the scandal, all i was saying was, it COULD be.

Good news is Mclaren is fastest after the Friday practice at Spa.

I read the whole report (almost) and in it, it states that Mike went to a higher up McLaren person, in this case Mr. Neale. And instead of taking harsh action against Mike, Neale simply told him to never talk to Nigel again.

Then again Mike went to Neale and showed him pictures (didn't state of what) and again Neale said not to talk to Nigel and burn those pictures. The reason McLaren was fined heavily is because instead of taking action against Mike they simply let him do his thing. So it wasn't just one employee who went out of line, it was a few employees doing something illegal while the managers simply said "don't do it" and turned the other way.

 

[merve_extreme]

Replying back a few pages regarding whether Ferrari should be penalised. If Stephney was acting on his own as an individual without Ferrari approving it, if you accept that this is his 'own' actions and that Ferrari takes no responsibilities of it, then Mclaren has got an employee that was unapproved to take illegal actions on his own,

My dear friend,the problem with this argument is that there was only one person at ferrari and more than 5-6(min) that knew it at Mclaren.Also the persons involved are responsible for development of the car and not the managing staff or Ron Dennis.

 

[450SEL6.9]

Replying back a few pages regarding whether Ferrari should be penalised. If Stephney was acting on his own as an individual without Ferrari approving it. . .

Without Ferrari approving Stepney's actions? But of course he did it without Ferrari's approval. Can you tell me why on earth Ferrari would approve him or any other employee giving 780-pages of their secrets away to a bitter rival? How would Stepney have asked his bosses to sign off on his actions?

I just don't understand why you want Ferrari punished. Coughlan and Stepney will both be punished. I think they will be banned for life. Mclaren was punished because someone in the team tried to or intended to use the stolen Ferrari data. Why would Ferrari be punished when it was the other team trying to use their stolen property?

bmwownage, I'd like to add to your example of the graduate student giving an active student his essay to explain why it is illogical to punish Ferrari.
Graduated student - Lefern Hamso
Active student - Ferlew Alonton
2nd graduated student - Kimfel Raissa

- Graduated Lefern Hamso gives his essay to Ferlew Alonton, who uses it immediately to his advantage to pass his class.
- Say Lefern also stole fellow graduate Kimfel Raissa's essay by breaking into his house and passes it to Ferlew, again Ferlew uses parts of Kimfel's essay to his advantage, Kimfel's essay was stolen without him knowing
- As punishment, Lefern gets his degree withdraw and Ferlew is expelled immediately, but what about Kimfel Raissa (who had nothing to do with his essay being given away)?

bmwownage, do you think Kimfel Raissa needs to be punished and have his degree withdraw too? I tried to make it as close to your initial example.

 

[450SEL6.9]

This is the worst possible scenario:

-Mclaren has lost all their gained points this season.
-Alonso wins drivers championship.
-Leaves Mclaren
-Mclaren participates in the 2008 with an amazing driver(Hamilton) but doesn't have a driver with expertise in developing and setting up a champion's car.
-2008 season turn out to be a fiasco for Mclaren.

I don't think that will happen. I bet Alonso runs into some convenient bad luck in the remaining races.

Actually, what you say is not a bad thing. In fact, if TOUI gets a shitty car next year and Hamilton stays with them, I might even respect the guy more, if he can get results with inferior car.

My whole "disrespect" of Hamilton stems from the fact that he gets so much outlandish and premature praise from the media (remember Peter Windsor's absurd statement about Lewis being better than both Senna and Prost) despite him having the benefit of the fastest car and perhaps the benefit of Ferrari's intellectual property. I also hate how Brits like to praise Lewis by knocking down other retired/dead drivers and devaluing their achievements. If he can prove himself in an inferior car, he'll certainly earn my respect and the respect of many more Lewis-disbelievers.

Sure, Hamilton is outperforming Alonso this year, but IMO that is not saying much. I have always said Alonso is an overrated driver, much like Kimi. I like Fernando as a car developer and I like him for defending himself against perceived bias, but I don't think Alonso is up there among the great drivers. The scary thing is that he could win his third title this year and his name would go beside Senna. Also, he would be the third driver after Fangio and Schu to win three WDC in a row. Alonso's name beside Fangio's . . . now that would truly be scary.

 

[PanterroR]

Now that Alonso has been involved with ruining this years championship for Mclaren, I seriously hope that he doesn't win the drivers championship. He's a snake, fake and all. There is no Mclaren spirit in him and he's probably ditch the team after this season.

Just another reason to hate that SOB...

 

[Centurion]

I don't think that will happen. I bet Alonso runs into some convenient bad luck in the remaining races.

Actually, what you say is not a bad thing. In fact, if TOUI gets a shitty car next year and Hamilton stays with them, I might even respect the guy more, if he can get results with inferior car.

My whole "disrespect" of Hamilton stems from the fact that he gets so much outlandish and premature praise from the media (remember Peter Windsor's absurd statement about Lewis being better than both Senna and Prost) despite him having the benefit of the fastest car and perhaps the benefit of Ferrari's intellectual property. I also hate how Brits like to praise Lewis by knocking down other retired/dead drivers and devaluing their achievements. If he can prove himself in an inferior car, he'll certainly earn my respect and the respect of many more Lewis-disbelievers.

Sure, Hamilton is outperforming Alonso this year, but IMO that is not saying much. I have always said Alonso is an overrated driver, much like Kimi. I like Fernando as a car developer and I like him for defending himself against perceived bias, but I don't think Alonso is up there among the great drivers. The scary thing is that he could win his third title this year and his name would go beside Senna. Also, he would be the third driver after Fangio and Schu to win three WDC in a row. Alonso's name beside Fangio's . . . now that would truly be scary.

Like I have said before I find it unfair and ridiculous to discredit Hamilton for what is said about him in the media. Further more let the people enjoy their moment. Jenson Button and David Coulthard aren't doing much good on the track lately. Off course Britain will cheer and praise a young man who comes from nowhere and represent their country in F1 with wicked performance.

BTW do you guys think that Mclaren would have been punished if Alonso and Del a Roso didn't use the "illegal" information from Ferrari? My spider man senses are telling me that what they did was very decisive in the matter.

 

[Monster]

wow I was out for a day and all these information were released. I haven't read through all the discussion but all I can say is Alonso is a little b*tch. Tycoon get your STIHL. F1 is still a team sport, without a good team the driver will go nowhere and end up being kicked out of the sport. For Fernando Alonso to threaten Ron unless the team install him as their number one driver is just childish, selfish, unsporting and retarded. Unlike Michael, he did not build the team around him, he did not pick the engineers or the designers for the team, Alonso does not deserve an automatic first preference.

As a Ferrari supporter, any chance of Kimi or Massa winning the title is gone, so Lewis please win the drivers title, don't let this bastard win it.

 

[coolraoul]

Agree, Alonso is a f**** little bastard. Never like him.
Trying to pressure Dennis, what a stupid boy... You can't pressure a man like Dennis like that.

Lewis, please win!

Wonder if McLaren will continue seriously to develop their car. Surely, to venge themselves against Ferrari...

 

[PanterroR]

wow I was out for a day and all these information were released. I haven't read through all the discussion but all I can say is Alonso is a little b*tch. Tycoon get your STIHL. F1 is still a team sport, without a good team the driver will go nowhere and end up being kicked out of the sport. For Fernando Alonso to threaten Ron unless the team install him as their number one driver is just childish, selfish, unsporting and retarded. Unlike Michael, he did not build the team around him, he did not pick the engineers or the designers for the team, Alonso does not deserve an automatic first preference.

As a Ferrari supporter, any chance of Kimi or Massa winning the title is gone, so Lewis please win the drivers title, don't let this bastard win it.

For this post, my friend, you're getting $h!tloads of karma from me!

 

[Imhotep Evil]

>



^ From Gazzetta dello Sport

Mosley difende Alonso

Fernando Alonso ha detto che qualcuno dovrebbe ringraziarlo. Si riferiva a qualche suo collega pilota, ma intanto ha ricevuto i complimenti ben più importanti del presidente della Fia Max Mosley. "Senza Alonso non avremmo saputo quello che è successo - spiega Mosley - è l'unico della sua squadra ad aver fatto la cosa giusta. Solitamente quando un pilota entra in un team, viene assorbito anche dal modo di comportarsi di quella squadra, ma lui ha capito che non era la cosa giusta. Fino a quel momento avevamo avuto solo le comunicazioni forniteci dalla polizia italiana, ma nessuna certezza che invece abbiamo ottenuto con le e-mail di Alonso. Se ad Alonso sarà consentito alla Mclaren di lavorare tranquillamente? Se faranno qualcosa di sbagliato contro Alonso ne risponderanno a noi a Parigi e faremo quello che è necessario".

This is like a comedy know:
Mosley defends Alonso
Mosley says thank you to Alonso, claiming they would have never know what happened without him.

"è l'unico della sua squadra ad aver fatto la cosa giusta"
meaning "he's the only one from the team to do the right thing"

But the pearl:
"Se faranno qualcosa di sbagliato contro Alonso ne risponderanno a noi a Parigi e faremo quello che è necessario"
meaning
"If they (McLaren) will do something wrong against Alonso they will answer to us in Paris and will do what is necessary.


So much smooching between an FIA president and a driver hasn't happened since Prost and Balestre.

 

[PanterroR]

Luca, Max and Bernie can suck my beautiful ....! That's all i have to say on those 3 morons!

 

[NarutoRamen]

None of you guys have read the report have you or my posts...

It says that Fernando and Pedro turned their emails in to FIA themselves...Ron isn't the one who did this. So to keep on going about how Fernando was pressuring Ron and then Ron gave FIA the info is just wrong.

I'm not saying that Alonso isn't a little bitch but the fact is him and pedro turned in the emails and gave explanations themselves...Jeez read the damn report and not rumors from websited.