RikfromBelgium
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as expected, I hope dennis can't sleep the next 50 years or so
F1 FIA versus McLaren Fiasco Thread
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Formula 1 news, races, teams, drivers, technology, strategy, and discussion.
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Formula 1 : News MCLAREN - F1-Live.com
This year has come and gone and they are the absolute laughing stocks of the F1 Paddock - both on the track and off it. I mean they had the fastest car, best reliability, two outstandingly fast drivers - yet no WCC or WDC. On top of that their reputation went down the gurgler over this spy row and the various controvesial things they did, and now officially they are hypocrites.
Oh and their 22 year old driver of one F1 season has a biographyThats hilarious.
The Ferrari QC had a great line. Hypocrites devoid of any integrity!
What annoys me more is the constant double-talk. Ever since this scandal broke, the team has been tellings F1 fans it is not trying to win the title in court, yet the headlines from day-one of the hearing were pretty clear - "Lawyer seeks title on appeal".
They had told fans that the team was not involved in the spying scandal and alleged it was the doing of a rogue employee. Oops. They told fans the team gives drivers equal status, but in China the team boss says they weren't racing Kimi, but rather racing their own driver Alonso! Let's see, what else? The go f**ken swivel incident, which now the team says never happened. The rookie driver who leaves for Switzerland, telling fans it's about getting away from publicity, then says there's a tax consideration.
F1 is not for wimps and sissies. No rational F1 fans expect their driver and team to be saints. I don't see the necessity in having PR people running around spinning everything in a positive light to make the team and its driver look whiter than white. I don't mind drivers trying to win WDC by crashing into his opponent at the last race, as long as they don't pretend to be a great guy of unmatched integrity afterwards.
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Formula 1 : News MCLAREN - F1-Live.com
I feel sorry for McLaren fans. Prior to the 2007 season, McLaren Mercedes were regarded as a respectable team. Admittedly I never liked them, but still you had to respect them as previous WCC Champions.
This year has come and gone and they are the absolute laughing stocks of the F1 Paddock - both on the track and off it. I mean they had the fastest car, best reliability, two outstandingly fast drivers - yet no WCC or WDC. On top of that their reputation went down the gurgler over this spy row and the various controvesial things they did, and now officially they are hypocrites.
Oh and their 22 year old driver of one F1 season has a biography
Hahaha funny post but real at the same time. Mclaren has lost a good season. Both their drivers and the team did a terrific job on the track, but at the same time the season has failed like the Bush administration.
I'm still a fan and stand behind the team 110% wishing for a drama and scandal free 2008 season. Dennis must be devastated but at least he has something good to remember from this season which is his rookie gamble that paid off huge.
As for Hamilton it's a little amusing that in all of this mess Hamilton is on a publicity roll with his autobiography, awards, migration to $wissy land and public appearances. It's as if he's won 3 championships in a row or something.
Now that the BMW/Williams investigation is over I want Dennis to move on and focus on the next season. Can't wait to buy MClaren team merchandise when I move to London in January.
Hahaha funny post but real at the same time. Mclaren has lost a good season. Both their drivers and the team did a terrific job on the track, but at the same time the season has failed like the Bush administration.
I'm still a fan and stand behind the team 110% wishing for a drama and scandal free 2008 season. Dennis must be devastated but at least he has something good to remember from this season which is his rookie gamble that paid off huge.
As for Hamilton it's a little amusing that in all of this mess Hamilton is on a publicity roll with his autobiography, awards, migration to $wissy land and public appearances. It's as if he's won 3 championships in a row or something.
Now that the BMW/Williams investigation is over I want Dennis to move on and focus on the next season. Can't wait to buy MClaren team merchandise when I move to London in January.
Sad thing is that I should support McLaren because the founding father of McLaren - Bruce McLaren - is a New Zealander. Ron Dennis and the McLaren team have tarnished the McLaren name this year, and Bruce McLaren will be turning in his grave.
As a side note there's a tiny little Garage tucked in somewhere in Remuera, Auckland that you can visit. It was where Bruce Mclaren started it all.
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McLaren propose freeze to halt spy secrets
McLaren has proposed to freeze development of certain aspects of its 2008 car, after acknowledging that Ferrari secrets penetrated more deeply into the British team than was previously thought.
With the FIA still to rule on the legality of the MP4-23 following the 'Stepneygate' scandal, a McLaren statement on Thursday revealed that the governing body's recent investigation did indeed uncover that "Ferrari information was more widely disseminated... than was previously communicated."
"McLaren greatly regrets that its own investigations did not identify this material and has written to the World Motor Sport Council to apologise for this," the team said.
The letter, to FIA President Max Mosley, acknowledged that the Ferrari secrets spread within McLaren further than its chief designer and drivers Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso, contrary to the team's argument at the September hearing.
Click here to find out more!
The World Motor Sport Council is due to meet again on 14 February, where further sanctions could be added to McLaren's $100m fine and 2007 constructors' championship exclusion.
In a bid to avoid additional penalties, the team has offered to "impose a moratorium on development" of three separate systems that may have been infected by the Ferrari secrets.
The letter to Mosley seeks discussions "as to a moratorium of an appropriate length" on the use of "quickshift, fast fill and CO2 as a tyre gas."
f1live.com
McLaren has proposed to freeze development of certain aspects of its 2008 car, after acknowledging that Ferrari secrets penetrated more deeply into the British team than was previously thought.
With the FIA still to rule on the legality of the MP4-23 following the 'Stepneygate' scandal, a McLaren statement on Thursday revealed that the governing body's recent investigation did indeed uncover that "Ferrari information was more widely disseminated... than was previously communicated."
"McLaren greatly regrets that its own investigations did not identify this material and has written to the World Motor Sport Council to apologise for this," the team said.
The letter, to FIA President Max Mosley, acknowledged that the Ferrari secrets spread within McLaren further than its chief designer and drivers Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso, contrary to the team's argument at the September hearing.
Click here to find out more!
The World Motor Sport Council is due to meet again on 14 February, where further sanctions could be added to McLaren's $100m fine and 2007 constructors' championship exclusion.
In a bid to avoid additional penalties, the team has offered to "impose a moratorium on development" of three separate systems that may have been infected by the Ferrari secrets.
The letter to Mosley seeks discussions "as to a moratorium of an appropriate length" on the use of "quickshift, fast fill and CO2 as a tyre gas."
f1live.com
And the final nail in the coffin for McLaren in the 2007 season - they admit, by official statement no less, that they lied in the initial spygate hearing to the FIA and their fans. Worse still - they were still planning on incorporating Ferrari intellectual property into their 2008 car, despite their $100 million fine and ejection from the 2007 World Championship.
You have to wonder, how will McLaren fare for next year? Will their 2008 car be as good as it was this year? In my opinion there isn't much going for them in 2008:
- Its an even year, and for some reason McLaren have an even year curse, with their even year cars being crap.
- They are $100 million poorer. $100 million is alot of car.
- They have admitted they are cheaters and liars in 2007
- They are less an outstanding driver in the form of Alonso.
- They most probably will have two rookie drivers, which can't be very good for the development and setup of a car.
- Team moral must be at its lowest point.
- There is still civil action against McLaren in Britain and Italy.
- They self-imposed a development ban on three (presumably) key parts of the car.
Hrm. We shall see.
You have to wonder, how will McLaren fare for next year? Will their 2008 car be as good as it was this year? In my opinion there isn't much going for them in 2008:
- Its an even year, and for some reason McLaren have an even year curse, with their even year cars being crap.
- They are $100 million poorer. $100 million is alot of car.
- They have admitted they are cheaters and liars in 2007
- They are less an outstanding driver in the form of Alonso.
- They most probably will have two rookie drivers, which can't be very good for the development and setup of a car.
- Team moral must be at its lowest point.
- There is still civil action against McLaren in Britain and Italy.
- They self-imposed a development ban on three (presumably) key parts of the car.
Hrm. We shall see.
And it gets worse:
News - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com
With these money troubles, if your a McLaren fan, I think its about time you bought that McLaren mechandise.
News - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com
With these money troubles, if your a McLaren fan, I think its about time you bought that McLaren mechandise.
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Well, well, well, look who's come clean! The anti-Mosley and anti-FIA and anti-Ferrari crowd, which included several respected retired British drivers, have been crying about a witch hunt or months! Maybe they should come clean too! It's their turn to admit there was no witch hunt! It's time to pucker up and admit that the inquiries were necessitated by the repeated dishonest behavior of one team.
Max and the FIA was pretty generous to Mclaren and they still took all sorts of sh*t for being anti-Mclaren. I'm glad they're suing so-called journalists for accusing them of witch hunts. Max had said that he doesn't think Mclaren told the truth during the first hearing and he doubted whether they were honest at the second hearing. He got slammed in the press for it. Looks like some GCF members also owe him an apology.
Max and the FIA was pretty generous to Mclaren and they still took all sorts of sh*t for being anti-Mclaren. I'm glad they're suing so-called journalists for accusing them of witch hunts. Max had said that he doesn't think Mclaren told the truth during the first hearing and he doubted whether they were honest at the second hearing. He got slammed in the press for it. Looks like some GCF members also owe him an apology.
Imhotep Evil
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FIA report shows Ferrari data on McLaren's 08 car
Friday 14th December 2007
The FIA report into McLaren's 2008 car reveals why the team to chose to come clean over the spy scandal.
Although McLaren's apology is likely to see them granted entry into the 2008 season, the FIA report is damning.
The Report by the FIA Technical Department to the World Motor Sport Council claims negligence on the part of the British team. It reads "The prior investigations by McLarne into the use of the confidential Ferrari information do not appear to have been very thorough."
It was found that the team were not honest over Mike Coughlan's role within the team and also discovered that senior figures at Woking were willing to use Ferrari's technical information on their 2008 challenger.
"The [senior McLaren engineers] on the 2007 and 2008 McLaren cars appear to have known that confidential Ferrari information was available from a "mole" and had prepared to use it to McLaren's advantage in the development of the 2007 and 2008 cars," reads the report.
Furthermore, the report uncovered that contrary to McLaren's evidence at the WMSC hearings, Coughlan did play an active role in the design of spurious systems, especially the brake balance system.
"McLaren's insistence before the WMSC that Coughlan had only a functional design role at McLaren is not backed up by the documents and interviews. He played a leadership role in the development of brake strategy for McLaren on their 2007 and 2008 cars...McLaren were previously keen to downplay his contribution."
The governing body's investigation found that McLaren had intended to run certain Ferrari systems on their 2008 car. "McLaren's installation of a [confidential] in the braking system of its 2008 car had been influenced by the receipt of Ferrari information."
McLaren were also looking into the possibility of using CO2 gas to inflate their tyres - a concept that was passed from Nigel Stepney onto Coughlan.
Friday 14th December 2007
The FIA report into McLaren's 2008 car reveals why the team to chose to come clean over the spy scandal.
Although McLaren's apology is likely to see them granted entry into the 2008 season, the FIA report is damning.
The Report by the FIA Technical Department to the World Motor Sport Council claims negligence on the part of the British team. It reads "The prior investigations by McLarne into the use of the confidential Ferrari information do not appear to have been very thorough."
It was found that the team were not honest over Mike Coughlan's role within the team and also discovered that senior figures at Woking were willing to use Ferrari's technical information on their 2008 challenger.
"The [senior McLaren engineers] on the 2007 and 2008 McLaren cars appear to have known that confidential Ferrari information was available from a "mole" and had prepared to use it to McLaren's advantage in the development of the 2007 and 2008 cars," reads the report.
Furthermore, the report uncovered that contrary to McLaren's evidence at the WMSC hearings, Coughlan did play an active role in the design of spurious systems, especially the brake balance system.
"McLaren's insistence before the WMSC that Coughlan had only a functional design role at McLaren is not backed up by the documents and interviews. He played a leadership role in the development of brake strategy for McLaren on their 2007 and 2008 cars...McLaren were previously keen to downplay his contribution."
The governing body's investigation found that McLaren had intended to run certain Ferrari systems on their 2008 car. "McLaren's installation of a [confidential] in the braking system of its 2008 car had been influenced by the receipt of Ferrari information."
McLaren were also looking into the possibility of using CO2 gas to inflate their tyres - a concept that was passed from Nigel Stepney onto Coughlan.
Imhotep Evil
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McLaren are out of contention for 2008. If Renault and/or BMW don't step up their games it will be a red wash.
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For the sake of F1, I hope the Mac car is not good for 2008. If they are fast again in '08, how long will it take before other teams start questioning their legitimacy (again)? Oh yeah, everyone will be running Mclaren ECUs in 2008. If Mclaren are very fast again, you'd better cover your ears before a new round of accusations! You've got to admit that would be one juicy target! After all the dishonest actions this year and the admission, I can't see anyone giving them the benefit of any doubt.
The development ban is a little too generous for me. If those key parts were built using ripped off ideas, what would the development ban do? You wouldn't be allowed to keep improving those dodgy parts, but they are still dodgy parts!
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I guess it's time to change the name of this scandal to Dennisgate. It has been a deception and Dennis, the team principal who should have best integrity, he has deceived us all. Although I'm a Mclaren fan I am very disappointed and feel a bit betrayed. This whole coming clean thing is an apology rather than an admittance of guilt, but this is how all cooperations do it.
Either way I have to take back all the hatred I have expressed against Ferrari and FIA, because FIA has been nice to Hamilton on the track.
Either way I have to take back all the hatred I have expressed against Ferrari and FIA, because FIA has been nice to Hamilton on the track.
Imhotep Evil
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The ECU was criticised by more than one team. I think someone from Renault said it seems particularly optimised for a certain car.
Now I just want an investigation to see where Alonso's 0.6 second went. With some Bridgestone technicians present checking telemetry data, and truth serum and polygraph "interviews".
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Italian investigation continues
McLaren Racing has today continued its co-operation with enquiries instigated by the Modena Magistrate.
The Surrey Police accompanied Italian investigators to the homes of a number of McLaren executives as part of their ongoing investigation.
A similar process has been performed at the McLaren Technology Centre.
The police are completely satisfied with the co-operation they have received.
These actions are part of a normal judicial process in connection with the ongoing investigation, and are supported by McLaren Racing.
F1live
McLaren Racing has today continued its co-operation with enquiries instigated by the Modena Magistrate.
The Surrey Police accompanied Italian investigators to the homes of a number of McLaren executives as part of their ongoing investigation.
A similar process has been performed at the McLaren Technology Centre.
The police are completely satisfied with the co-operation they have received.
These actions are part of a normal judicial process in connection with the ongoing investigation, and are supported by McLaren Racing.
F1live
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^^ More material for the teams to use after they get beaten by Mclaren this year. Spygate is not forgotten, not when this Italian investigation is going on.
Imhotep Evil
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Latest on the Spygate:
Italians collect evidence in McLaren raids
McLaren happy to co-operate with investigation
29/02/08 09:33
F1-Live.com
Modena magistrate Giuseppe Tibis
continues to investigate espionage scandal
Italian police have contradicted reports that no useful evidence was collected in the raids on the British homes and office of senior McLaren chiefs earlier this week.
A statement issued by the authorities said the searches, believed to have involved the cooperation of up to fifty Surrey police officers, resulted in evidence from which "clearly emerges the responsibilities of the management and some technicians at a high level in McLaren."
It also emerges that the Italians took copies of a number of storage devices relating to the senior McLaren personnel, including Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh, and copied computer directories and email mailboxes.
McLaren said after the raids on Wednesday that the police were "completely satisfied with the co-operation they have received.
"These actions are part of a normal judicial process in connection with the ongoing investigation, and are supported by McLaren Racing," the team added.
Italians collect evidence in McLaren raids
McLaren happy to co-operate with investigation
29/02/08 09:33
F1-Live.com
Modena magistrate Giuseppe Tibis
continues to investigate espionage scandal
Italian police have contradicted reports that no useful evidence was collected in the raids on the British homes and office of senior McLaren chiefs earlier this week.
A statement issued by the authorities said the searches, believed to have involved the cooperation of up to fifty Surrey police officers, resulted in evidence from which "clearly emerges the responsibilities of the management and some technicians at a high level in McLaren."
It also emerges that the Italians took copies of a number of storage devices relating to the senior McLaren personnel, including Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh, and copied computer directories and email mailboxes.
McLaren said after the raids on Wednesday that the police were "completely satisfied with the co-operation they have received.
"These actions are part of a normal judicial process in connection with the ongoing investigation, and are supported by McLaren Racing," the team added.
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