911 (997) Fantastic post about the 911 & 997 Turbo

[Centurion]

I had a feeling that the options and product information aren't ready yet. Though I think it's a great idea to order this early since there will be lot's a people trying to get their hands on a 997TT. Hey, you might even be able to make a profit on it but I bet you will want to keep it . So how has your experience with the C4s been, anything you dislike about the car?

 

[jrlcarrera]

"Hey, you might even be able to make a profit on it but I bet you will want to keep it"...LOL I'm not sure if I will get rid of the 4s in trade!

The 4s is an inbeleivable ride, exact, fast and beautifull (black/tan interior). the all wheel drive system is as good as they tell you,you can really be agressive getting on or off the turnpike! but the most unbelievably helpful driving tool are the BREAKS...the most responsive i've ever seen, it feels like you are driving a go Kart! It makes all the difference between this ride and ANYTHING out there (stock).
I will change the rims for 20inch black techarts and add the spoilers and performance pkge,I thought the factory wheels are weak looking for this car.

 

[SDNR]

The guy who wrote that first post is one true fanatic - but I don't think Porsche will deliver his dream 997 Turbo with 520HP.

As for options, Porsche is no worse than Mercedes in that regard - if you want it, you have to pay extra.

The guy does make some great points though. Porsche fans are pretty intense though.




Oh yes, BTW, I know I probably don't deserve it Lu, but can I have some gingerbread too...............I really like gingerbread - LOL

 

[audi_rudy]

welcome jrlcarrera
congrats on the nice ride. seems like you are liking it very alot
so are you putting rims, and performance package on it?
sounds like a beast..could you give us some pics??

 

[Centurion]

The guy who wrote that first post is one true fanatic - but I don't think Porsche will deliver his dream 997 Turbo with 520HP.

As for options, Porsche is no worse than Mercedes in that regard - if you want it, you have to pay extra.

The guy does make some great points though. Porsche fans are pretty intense though.




Oh yes, BTW, I know I probably don't deserve it Lu, but can I have some gingerbread too...............I really like gingerbread - LOL

I think that he will be pleased with the 997TT if not the Turbo S which will likely be the one that offers power close to 520hp.
Sorry rob, I can't give you any gingerbread since our jar is more or less empty but I would give you some Swedish meatballs

 

[jrlcarrera]

What his guys said is fantastic. I want to send him a piece of ginger bread of something. This is really a true Porsche fan.

I guess Porsche did not listen...not yet anyway Sounds like the upcomming Turbo S will be the car to buy this new turbo release while good is in my oppinion not worth the money or the effort once one knows a better car is comming soon.

 

[drronh]

Idid put a deposit already although we do not know what the price will be yet...LOL.I dont mind since it seems these cars hold their value, especially when they are Maxed out in factory options.
:

Hold their value? You must be joking! Porsche makes too many turbos. They produced something like 6000 per year. Low mileage 2001 turbos can be had in the high $70's. Trade in value is in the mid 60's. It not much better for newer cars. All those expensive options mean nothing in resale value. 90% of them are a personal matter of taste and not worth anything to the second owner. There are no Porsches made now that hold their value. Carrera GTs are discounted from new- my local dealer has 4 sitting on the showroom. They still have a new 2004 turbo. They still have new 2004 Boxsters. That's why Porsche made 1250 CGT iinstead of 1500. Stuttgart cares about selling a lot of cars, no matter what is does to the resale market. I venture that they will make more 997 turbos per year than Chevy will make Z06's. In 1994 there were approx 1200 trubos made, only approx 440 were sold in the US. In 1997 only 800 turbos were made for the world. These cars sell for slightly less than 996 turbos (1994) or in some cases the same or more (993TT). Look at 996 GT2's and GT3's. A friend of mine owns a car dealership up north- they took in a low mileage 2004 GT3 in trade and did not feel they had the right customer base to sell the car, so they sold it at auction for $65k- and still made money! Another friend of mine here in Florida has a 1999 Boxster with 36K miles in very good shape and has not been able to sell it for over a year- he has the price down to $22K- the problem?... dealers have similar cars with 60-70K miles asking $14k and taking $12.5k for them

On the upside its good for those buying 2-3 year old nice low mileage Porsches and plan on keeing them a long time

 

[Centurion]

drronh: Well it's not suprising that some 996TTs are dusting in dealerships. A brand new model, the 997 is allready out which makes the old one less desirable and now they the 997TT is around the corner the 996TTs lose alot of their value. On the other hand the 993TT has been able to hold it's value pretty good but that's becasue it's a loved enthusiast car. You do have a point with Porsche producing too many cars but hey they want to survive. Although they produced too many CGTs and more or less anyone in the US can get their hand on one within a few days.
In general Porsche cars hold their value very good especially if you compare with AMG cars and such which drastically lose their value the first year.

 

[drronh]

drronh: Well it's not suprising that some 996TTs are dusting in dealerships. A brand new model, the 997 is allready out which makes the old one less desirable and now they the 997TT is around the corner the 996TTs lose alot of their value. On the other hand the 993TT has been able to hold it's value pretty good but that's becasue it's a loved enthusiast car. You do have a point with Porsche producing too many cars but hey they want to survive. Although they produced too many CGTs and more or less anyone in the US can get their hand on one within a few days.
In general Porsche cars hold their value very good especially if you compare with AMG cars and such which drastically lose their value the first year.

Even well before the 997, 996TT were languishing in dealerships. I bought a 996 C4S in 2002 for $91K. 8 months later there was a 2002 996TT with 4K miles on it and the dealer was asking $96K- I knew I'd lose some money on the C4S, but I asked anyway- trade in was $61K- a $30K loss in 8 months and 2000 miles of driving. I realize thats trade in versus retail, but still...
My point is that these cars are not a good investment, they all depreciate a lot. 10% on a $20K car is not a lot, 10% on a $200K car is. You will not get your money back if you buy a new one- its the law of supply and demand. Porsche makes a lot of cars- Good for Porsche AG, bad for the resale market. Ferrari's hold their value pretty well and if you can get a new "hot" car early and flip it quick you can do okay, but if you're buying cars like this it is for the enjoyment of owning/driving them and you can afford to lose the money if you do not keep the car for long.

 

[Centurion]

The 911 isn't really as exotic as a Lambo or Ferrari and the fact that lots of it are being produced does affect the resale value, hence what you mentioned before, supply and demand. The resale value of a Gallardo isn't exactly high either since Lambo is producing it at a fast pace. The only real investment car these days is the Ferrari F430 which is very hard to get hold of. Just look at cars out on ebay almost every F430 sells for atleast 20% more than factory price. Compared with the Gallardo and 911TT which can be found for around 200.

 

[jrlcarrera]

"....but if you're buying cars like this it is for the enjoyment of owning/driving them and you can afford to lose the money if you do not keep the car for long."

Well said

The advantage I see in the Porshe is that it is a great "daily driver", which can't be said about all these other cars in other people's garage . All these cars loose value over time , especially if you drive them. Ferrari holds value if you keep them under 5,000 miles forever, you have to keep them for a looooong time in order to make money.

The beauty of Porsche, which I didn't know until I bought one , is that you can daily drive a monster

 

[Carbon]

Ferrari holds value if you keep them under 5,000 miles forever, you have to keep them for a looooong time in order to make money.

Actually, if you were just high on the list and got say an F430 Spider, you could make a hefty profit by selling it immediately.

 

[martinbo]

It's a fine line isn't it, this dichotomy between exclusivity and profitability?

Porsche's beanies sometime ago ought to have worked out that model and product diversification was the key to better profits. So it's to be expected that a proliferation of models and the versions thereof was on the cards.

The concept of value retention is obviously a simple one of supply vs. demand economics. It's a well known fact that Porsche views left-hand drive markets - notably the US as a single country - as vital to sustainable sales volumes:

Sales Activity per Market - 2005
Europe: 58%
North America: 34%
Rest of the World: 8%

Given the intensly competitive automotive market in the States (one has to admit that there simply isn't another car market like it...) it's plausible that Porsche are over-supplying the US with models and that, in the current subdued economic climate, this supply is exceeding demand. To the detriment of resale value.

Then again...

This is a new age of motoring where car value appreciation is nigh unheard of save for highly exceptional cases involving in-fashion exotica for a finite period of time. Porsches depreciate just like every other car out there. Ferraris and Lambos depreciate too... drive a new F430 off the showroom floor and don't expect to sell it in six months for 75% of it's original price let alone what you bought it for.

In South Africa, Porsches hold their value pretty well from a second hand sticker price point of view but owners do take the knock on trade-in. But then, the market here is so small that typically supply and demand are evenly balanced and carefully regulated by Porsche SA.

Of course, a serious buyer for a mint GT3 RS is going to cough up.

This proves little though as car depreciation is incredibly difficult to measure scientifically when it comes to trade-in values.

Nevertheless, Porsche's share price is through the roof, headline earnings per share year on year are up 50% from 2001. I wonder if the same performance could be said of Ferrari or Lamborghini as they stand, peeping from behind mother companies Fiat and Audi's aprons. I sincerely doubt it.