Vs EVO: RS4 vs M3 V8 (including C63 review)

[Mr Robert]

Going back to the EVO review I read that EVO tested the new Alpina B3 as well and they achieved a better 0-60mph time with the B3 than with the tested M3 and RS4

Wow! That must have been one healthy B3!

 

[Centurion]

I can name at least two people here in Sweden that dont mind using their M3 CSL on normal roads because they find the comfort to be acceptable.

And if you think 996 GT3 is a comfortable car think again. Personally I think 996 GT3 is too noisy, too much windnoise and roadnoise and you feel every bump in the seat. I wouldnt mind owning a 996 GT3 but as a second car.
CSL is just like GT3 and GT3 RS, doing great on a track but still acceptable for the road. Personally I wouldnt call M3 CSL and 996 GT3 comfortable cars but they do work for normal roads but I understand if someone don't agree with me.

PS
I hear the 997 GT3 has a lot better comfort and works a lot better for daily-use than the old 996 GT3.
It sounds like 997 GT3 got softer suspension than 996 GT3 and thanks to the semi-R-tires the 997 GT3 beats the 996 GT3 around N-ring. Mind the last part is only a speculation from me.

Those that find the M3 CSL interior to be livable are off course a tiny minority of hardcore purists. I never said that the GT3 is comfortable but it is more comfortable than the CSL and other sports cars. You're right the 997 GT3 is more comfortable than the 996 GT3 thanks to PASM. Further more it can be equipped with just about any option as a standard 997.

Here are a few quotes from various magazine reviews to prove my point that the GT3 isn't a harsh and "hard core" as some people perceive it to be. It's a quite friendly uber sports car.



"The ride is firm, but with the dampers left in the softer of the two settings, it only becomes troubled on badly broken B-roads."



"The GT3 doesn’t feel much more uncomfortable than a Carrera S, so although at times it is unyielding – telegraphing the surface you are passing over – because it deals with bumps and ridges in such a decisive manner you’re inclined to relax and let it do its thing."


"Track-worthy, but not track-bound
And with the PASM active damping in the normal range, the ride isn't overly abusive. Stiff, for sure. But we'd take it.
The GT3 produces world-class performance just a couple of short steps removed from that of legendary racing iron, and it does so in a package accessible to mere mortals."


"The big surprise is the ride quality. Body control is taut yet the suspension is remarkably absorbent, smoothing out finely rippled, pocked surfaces that you expect to induce fidget and fuss."


I'll rest my case if you find similar statements about the CSL.

 

[Zafiro]

I'll rest my case if you find similar statements about the CSL.

the CSL is so old, takes too much time to dig

but I dont care what carmags think, the buyers decide, not carmags. Notice, Im talking about 996 GT3, not the 997. Im certain the next M3 CSL will be more comfortable than the old M3 E46. Its called progress

 

[Centurion]

the CSL is so old, takes too much time to dig

but I dont care what carmags think, the buyers decide, not carmags. Notice, Im talking about 996 GT3, not the 997. Im certain the next M3 CSL will be more comfortable than the old M3 E46. Its called progress

1. Magazines are much more objective then buyers.
2. You do care what magazines say since you are Sport auto fanatic Nr1 one GCF.

 

[Zafiro]

1. Magazines are much more objective then buyers.
2. You do care what magazines say since you are Sport auto fanatic Nr1 one GCF.

I like to hear what a profesional driver thinks about a car when pushed to the limit becuase not many people around the globe can drive like a pro.
but I fail to see what that has to do with with comfort or easy-to-live-with since that is a matter of personal opinion.
Sometimes people should stop listen to others and instead create his or her own opinion.

Magazines more objective, where did you read that? wishful thinking They all have their favorites.

 

[Mr Robert]

I'll rest my case if you find similar statements about the CSL.

Swedish AMS on the CSL in 2004:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CSL är hårdare satt i fjädringen men är ändå inte omöjlig, inte GT3-hård. Lite studsande blir det på sämre vägar men det är nog snarare stolarna som manar till en bensträckare efter ett tag.

Translates something like: The CSL is harder sprung [than the ordinary M3] but still not impossible, not as hard as the GT3. It gets a bit bumpy on bad condition roads but its rather the seats that makes you want to stretch your legs after a while.

Tekinkensvärld on the CSL in 2003:
Konkurrenterna? Porsche 911 GT3 sällar sig till skaran som utmanar M3 CSL, liksom Ferrari Challenge Stradale. Porsche är ännu mer racinginriktad, där M3 CSL sväljer en ojämnhet känns den garanterat i GT3. Men när det går riktigt fort skiljer det inte så mycket - BMW väger upp sitt vikt och effekthandikapp med den fina väghållningen.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Translates something like: The competition? Porsche 911 GT3 is amongst the challengers of the M3 CSL, as is the Ferrari Challenge Stradale. The Porsche is even more focused on racing, where the M3 CSL swallows bumps in the road these would been felt in the GT3. But when in high pace the difference is not that big - the BMW compensates its weight and power handicap with its fine handling.

[/FONT]

 

[Zafiro]

Dr Dunkel, you are solid as a rock

 

[Centurion]

Hahaha, Good work mate, gotta give you credit for that. Hopefully the new CSL will absorb bumps as good as the 997GT3.

 

[Mr Robert]

Thanks guys!

I think the new CSL will follow the same evolution as the GT3 (hopefully at least ). With the new electronic suspension BMW has the opportunity to mimic the great work Porsche did on the 997 GT3 - maybe not to the fullest but something like it.

 

[Sunny]

Hahaha, Good work mate, gotta give you credit for that. Hopefully the new CSL will absorb bumps as good as the 997GT3.

I am sure next CSL will have some version of EDC that is in the new M3.

 

[RICHBOY]

Sorry but if this is what becomes of the M3's interior to achieve those kind of track times, then I honestly hope and pray Audi makes no attemped to create a M3 CSL competitor!
Who the hell wants a bare bones car like that? Certainly not someone who's only gonna have one car! I'll be happy long as the RS5's capable of outperforming the standard M3!
Something tells me the CSL wasn't sold in the US. BMW would have a hard time trying to off-load that thing in the states!

M3 coupe vs. RS5 vs. CLK63
M3 sedan vs. RS4 vs. C63
M3 CSL vs. ??? ( You can play alone!)

 

[Choleric]

Lol.

You guys are ridiculous. Id be happy to have either. Its obvious they are pretty much equal to each other.

Regarding the CSL, I think it was Eni, who said that M slighltly ≥ S and MCSL slightly ≥ RS. I think thats a fair observation.

Regardless I dont think you'd regret it by choosing one over the other.

 

[RICHBOY]

Lol.

You guys are ridiculous. Id be happy to have either. Its obvious they are pretty much equal to each other.

Regarding the CSL, I think it was Eni, who said that M slighltly ≥ S and MCSL slightly ≥ RS. I think thats a fair observation.

Regardless I dont think you'd regret it by choosing one over the other.

Choose what over the other, a standard M3 over the M3 CSL, or C63 over the RS4 and M3 or vice versa?

 

[NarutoRamen]

Something tells me the CSL wasn't sold in the US. BMW would have a hard time trying to off-load that thing in the states!

you're right, it wasn't sold in the US. Not because no one would buy it, but more because of emission standards and such. Believe me, more than enough people in the US complained.

 

[Merc1]

It wasn't sold here because of the low sales numbers of the previous M3 Lightweight or whatever it was called. Americans in general don't want a stripped down BMW for track use, they want the luxury to go with the performance.

M

 

[RICHBOY]

It wasn't sold here because of the low sales numbers of the previous M3 Lightweight or whatever it was called. Americans in general don't want a stripped down BMW for track use, they want the luxury to go with the performance.

M

You hit the nail on the head! Most Americans would of been shocked if they saw the M3 CSL's interior! They probably would of thought they were getting punked!

 

[Sunny]

CSL was not sold in the US cause of emission issues - they could have easily moved all the 1600 CSLs they produced here in States alone - especially considering how Lotus is selling Elise and Exiges here like hot cakes here with way more spartan interiors.

I find the CSL interior quite adequate especially with all that alcantra. Only things you can't get is Navigation and electric seats and that might change too with the next one.

 

[Merc1]

A Lotus and a BMW are 2 different things. We don't know how they would have sold, but I do know that they had a hard time getting rid of the previous M3 that was similar to it. People said the same thing about the Carrera GT, but even it had problems towards the end, it happens to the best of cars at times. Emissions is cop-out IMO. This is BMW we're talking about, they could have made it comply if they felt the market for it existed.

M

 

[RICHBOY]

CSL was not sold in the US cause of emission issues - they could have easily moved all the 1600 CSLs they produced here in States alone - especially considering how Lotus is selling Elise and Exiges here like hot cakes here with way more spartan interiors.

I find the CSL interior quite adequate especially with all that alcantra. Only things you can't get is Navigation and electric seats and that might change too with the next one.

Your first point is mute! How do you know how many units BMW would of moved in the US? Further more, the outrageous performance the CSL was able to achieve was due to the bare bones interior, if they try and give it a pleasant enviroment ( extra weight) it won't achieve anything special when compared to the previous model! And if it can't outperform the previous model what's the point in building it?

 

[warot]

Your first point is mute! How do you know how many units BMW would of moved in the US? Further more, the outrageous performance the CSL was able to achieve was due to the bare bones interior, if they try and give it a pleasant enviroment ( extra weight) it won't achieve anything special when compared to the previous model! And if it can't outperform the previous model what's the point in building it?

I think you have the wrong idea of the CSL. First of all, those pictures don't say everything. You can have a CSL with AC, radio and power windows. Problem is that you won't have back seats and you will always have to deal with the race bucket seats. What you fail to realize is that the CSL used CF roof (compared to the old M3) and other lighter body parts. The engine output was also increased. It's not like they removed the interior and voila... a car that can do the N-Ring in under 8 mins...