Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
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LoL, Andreas, the Merc Fan boys always manage to keep you on your toes eh?
Well, at least Tarek makes me going. Its always him I argue with in C63 vs M3 threads because his posts adds fuel to the debate.
Vs EVO: M3 E90 vs C63 Performance Package
- Thread starter Zafiro
- Start date
Vehicle comparisons, matchups, debates, performance battles, and head-to-head discussions.
Well, at least Tarek makes me going. Its always him I argue with in C63 vs M3 threads because his posts adds fuel to the debate.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
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- 80% of the torque (340nm) is available already at 2000 rpm.
- 400 nm all they way from 3500 rpm to 6500 rpm.
- 370nm at 8000 rpm and 360 nm at 8300 rpm.
So EVO is correct, the M3 comes alive already at 2000 rpm, not 5500 rpm, and there are plenty of torque all the way up to redline in this 4.0 liters engine. M3 has better torque spread over the register than the M5.
Tarek
Cornering Kingpin
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Well of course u'll disagree with me and honestly i haven't driven either but all i said is from driving tests of both back to back,many said that the M3 needs to be revved hard to be really enjoyable and that's really the case with every high revvy engine.
And thank u for deciding to be nice lol
Really? Weird, I haven't seen anything suggesting the M3 wouldn't feel special compared to the regular 3er in normal driving or that it couldn't be enjoyed anywhere else than on a track.
Well as i already said that some reviews mentioned that,the M3 is inert and feels like a normal 3 unless it is revved hard,not my words but it's expected.
lol, Anytime.
I don't know where you got the 5500 rpm from. The evo test says the car comes alive above 2000. And actually unlike other M engines, the S65 has a very flat torque curve above 2500 rpm.
Yes it has a flat torque curve but as the reviews mentioned it only feels alive and hardcore above that RPM,below that it's just like a normal 3er.I didn't drive both but it doesn't take an engine freak to figure that low-torque high revvy engines requires to be worked hard to really build on speed compared to bigger high torque engines.
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I can't remeber any review where it says it feels like a normal 3er below 5.5k. May be you should post it.
Also, it is a delight to rev an engine that revs freely and it is not 'working hard' when it does it. You should try it some time. I drive my M3 regularly above 4k and it's redline is only 6500, my VW also has a 6k redline, but it is pain to rev it even beyond 3k cause it doesn't rev as freely.
D
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Sunny, Redline is a forbidden word in the Mercedes Benz world.
Weren't AMG going for pretty much the same clientele when they promised the C63 would challenge BMW’s new M3 for outright driver appeal?
AMG's Tobias Moers: "We have left no stone unturned in efforts to provide our new car the necessary qualities to lift it above the competition."
From Autocar:
"Merc AMGs have always had plenty of power, but they often lack the finesse of BMW M-division models. The new C63 is meant to change all that. New director of development Tobias Moers is promising that he’s left nothing to chance in tackling the new M3 head-on."
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If you look at the lap times, gap has actually gone up this time around compared to C55 vs E46 M3. At least in that case the C55 was more comfortable.
Tarek
Cornering Kingpin
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Well i know i should post but i can't remember which ones and there is tons of C63 vs M3 threads and vids
I know driving a high revvy engine is fun,i drive an italian engine with 7K red line and it's fun to drive but certainly u have to rev it to build up speeds very unlike the MB's engine when u get loads of torque down there which is more usable in normal public roads.
ALI
Autobahn Adventurer
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LoL, Andreas, the Merc Fan boys always manage to keep you on your toes eh?
LOL, so you guys are still in the fanboy phase, while these car manufacturers make tons of money... whats in it for you guys ???
PC Valkyrie
Headlight Hero
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I can't wait to read to entire Evo article!
There are plenty of head to head tests now which show the same thing.....the E90/92 M3 is faster than the C63 around a track (by around 2-4 seconds in most tests). The only thing left is Sport Auto's Supertest to see what time the C63 will have around the Ring.
As Sunny has mentioned earlier, the laptime results are disappointing to me, as the gap between the C63 and E90/92 M3 has INCREASED compared to the very small gap that was present between the C55 and E46 M3 coupe. Evo tested the C55 and E46 M3 CS (competition package) in a head to head test and there was only 0.3 seconds difference between them on the old Bedford Autodrome. (1 minute 30.1 seconds vs 1 minute 29.8 seconds). Another head to head test by a S. African mag around Zwartkops Raceway showed the C55 was 0.2 seconds slower than the E46 M3 (1 minute 18.0 seconds vs 1 minute 17.8 seconds). And unlike the C63 vs E90/92 M3 scenario, the C55 did not have much of an advantage in straight line acceleration over the E46 M3.
So even though the C63 is improved in everyway compared to the C55 (except in comfort), the problem is the E90/E92 M3 has improved EVEN MORE relative to the E46 M3 when it comes to pace around a track.
However, it's not all bad for the C63. The C63 FEELS much more exciting and involving to drive than the C55. Much more aggressive V8/exhaust sound, better steering feel, and much tighter/harsher suspension. And of course, the C63 simply outpowers the M3 much more than the C55 did.
There are plenty of head to head tests now which show the same thing.....the E90/92 M3 is faster than the C63 around a track (by around 2-4 seconds in most tests). The only thing left is Sport Auto's Supertest to see what time the C63 will have around the Ring.
As Sunny has mentioned earlier, the laptime results are disappointing to me, as the gap between the C63 and E90/92 M3 has INCREASED compared to the very small gap that was present between the C55 and E46 M3 coupe. Evo tested the C55 and E46 M3 CS (competition package) in a head to head test and there was only 0.3 seconds difference between them on the old Bedford Autodrome. (1 minute 30.1 seconds vs 1 minute 29.8 seconds). Another head to head test by a S. African mag around Zwartkops Raceway showed the C55 was 0.2 seconds slower than the E46 M3 (1 minute 18.0 seconds vs 1 minute 17.8 seconds). And unlike the C63 vs E90/92 M3 scenario, the C55 did not have much of an advantage in straight line acceleration over the E46 M3.
So even though the C63 is improved in everyway compared to the C55 (except in comfort), the problem is the E90/E92 M3 has improved EVEN MORE relative to the E46 M3 when it comes to pace around a track.
However, it's not all bad for the C63. The C63 FEELS much more exciting and involving to drive than the C55. Much more aggressive V8/exhaust sound, better steering feel, and much tighter/harsher suspension. And of course, the C63 simply outpowers the M3 much more than the C55 did.
ALI
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Good stuff, I see they've improved much more from the statistics of their V10 engine.. which doesnt come alive that soon, and doesnt even go as high in rpm .... I also notice that it has longer torque breath like in the 63AMG ....
ALI
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Ok, now thats a load of some, 2 to 4 seconds in each track they've texted the 2 cars ??? that is not true !!!
for one thing, Im convinced with the fact that the M3 is sharper on tracks with no long runs and high speeds, but there will be tracks where that changes, so lets just see, and please dont say the C63 results are disappointing, thats just lame, hating and rediculous of u to say ... (with all due respect
), and the C63 is a huge step forward from the C55 ...
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Ok, now thats a load of some, 2 to 4 seconds in each track they've texted the 2 cars ??? that is not true !!!
for one thing, Im convinced with the fact that the M3 is sharper on tracks with no long runs and high speeds, but there will be tracks where that changes, so lets just see, and please dont say the C63 results are disappointing, thats just lame, hating and rediculous of u to say ... (with all due respect
Not every test is between 2 and 4 secs. Some tests it is less than 2 secs and some more than 4 secs, but the gaps have definitively gone up compared to previous generation.
Evo test (from this thread)
M3: 1:26,2
C63 (PP): 1:28,8
Diff: 2.6 secs
TopGear
http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/21288-top-gear-m3-vs-c63-vs-rs4.html
M3: 2.38.9
C63: 2.43.5
RS4: 2.43.9
Diff: 4.6 secs
Motortrend
http://www.germancarforum.com/inter...s-2008-lexus-f-vs-2008-mercedes-benz-c63.html
M3: 2m 34.2
IS F: 2m 38.6
C63: 2m 39.0
Diff: 4.8 secs
AutoBild-Hockenheimring Grand-Prix-course:
http://www.germancarforum.com/inter...s]-autobild-sportscars-interesting-parts.html
M3: 2:02,71 min
IS-F: 2:04,45 min
C63: 2:04,59 min
Diff: 1.8 secs
Autozeitung
http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/22216-autozeitung-4-door-[e90]-m3-vs-c63-amg.html
1:38.7 min
1:40.0 min
Diff: 1.3 secs
Italain magazine Auto
http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/22480-italian-magazine-auto-m3-sedan-vs-c63.html
M3: 2'55''22
C63: 2'57''43
Diff: 2.2 secs
Motive Magazine:motivemagazine.com - Motive Versus: BMW M3 Sedan vs. Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG vs. Lexus IS-F
M3: 1:41.8
C63:1:42.6
Diff: .8 secs
Mr Robert
Kraftwagen König
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Ok, now thats a load of some, 2 to 4 seconds in each track they've texted the 2 cars ??? that is not true !!!
for one thing, Im convinced with the fact that the M3 is sharper on tracks with no long runs and high speeds, but there will be tracks where that changes, so lets just see, and please dont say the C63 results are disappointing, thats just lame, hating and rediculous of u to say ... (with all due respect
I agree, there must be a track where the C63 is faster. Make it straight enought and the C63 is a winner... wait a minute...
Regarding the C63 being a huge step forward comapred to the C55; no doubt about it! However, that does not stop the M3 from taking ever bigger ones.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
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Even if he read it in one review, its not true at all. The M3 engine comes alive already around 2000 rpm and around 3900 rpm you can enjoy 400 nm, period.
You only have to sit in the car to notice a M3 is different from a standard 3-series. The seats (which you guys unfortuanly dont have in US), the big fat steeringwheel is different.
When you drive you notice, traction, handling, steering, balance, brakes, throttle response, sound and the engine is different from a standard 3-series. The M3 doesnt share much with the rest of the models other than comfort which surprisingly the M3 now offer.
Yesterday I had a M3 E93 next to me and when he hit the throttle it gave me a big smile. Powerful and racing inspired sound
ALI
Autobahn Adventurer
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How about you drive the M3 and I drive the C63, from santa monica to long beach up on the 10 fwy down to the 5 onto the 710 south, then lets see who the f**K wins !!!!!!
Thats the same fwys I raced a murcielago in the CL65, that was the time I got busted at 170mph, now even the CL65 got the job done, even though the 10 and 5 fwys got ramps and they do get twisty and i smoked him ....
Its public streets that thrill me, even though I had to see bout 400 fresh dead bodies 4 months later in the morgue program ...
No video to prove it, but it was unexpected, December 24, 2004.. 12:30am
ALI
Autobahn Adventurer
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Hey Ali in April this year I spent some time in Santa Monica. You should have met up with me Ali
OHHHHHH, you should have told me man !! aww you are lame !!
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