Vs EVO: M3 E90 vs C63 Performance Package

[Zafiro]

Final words.

Indeed, both cars successfully balance hardcore horsepower with a tastefull palette of home comforts. As modern Teutonic interpretations of the classic American muscle car, they make the case. If what you crave in your four-door saloon, for instance, is colossal perfrormance delivered with the demeanour of an insouciant dragster, the C63 is almost certainly what you are looking for.

The depth of the M3's talent, however, is telling. For point-to-point pace it easily matches the Merc but, more than that, it feels special doing it - accurate, agile, finely balanced, biddable - where the Merc is merely accomplished. In short, the M3 saloon is sharper, cuts deeper and will keep you hooked for longer.

Bedford laptimes:
BMW M3: 1:26,2
Merc C63: 1:28,8

Source: Dr Dunkel

 

[Sunny]

Long live the king .

 

[Merc1]

Insouciant

Unconcerned, undisturbed; carefree and nonchalant

Hmmmm.....

M

 

[PanterroR]

I'd love to see a full article of this one...

 

[Wunderkind]

In the words of an AMG engineer, the average driver could explore the upper limits of the C63 with ease and more safely than he could in a M3.

The M3's maximum performance plateau is very narrow and the average driver will find it very challenging to drive the M3 at the maximum for prolonged periods.

It's not that the C63's chassis is inferior to the M3, it's just that they have been tuned differently to the taste of their respective clientele.

 

[PanterroR]

The M3's maximum performance plateau is very narrow and the average driver will find it very challenging to drive the M3 at the maximum for prolonged periods.

That's true, but these are high performance cars, so if i owned one, i for sure wouldn't drive it 365 days just to go to work and back; twisty roads, highways, sometimes on the track too... I'd use and explore it to the maximum.

And in the end, if i'd need every day, comfortable car, an M3 would serve me good in that way too.

 

[Sunny]

In the words of an AMG engineer, the average driver could explore the upper limits of the C63 with ease and more safely than he could in a M3.

The M3's maximum performance plateau is very narrow and the average driver will find it very challenging to drive the M3 at the maximum for prolonged periods.

It's not that the C63's chassis is inferior to the M3, it's just that they have been tuned differently to the taste of their respective clientele.

Looking at all the test videos and reviews we have seen I say it is the other way around with the C63 being the difficult car to handle at the limit and M3 being the more easily exploited. Of course it is normal the the AMG engineer thinks otherwise. And yes, the C63's chassis is inferior. AMG might or might not have deliberately made it that way, I have no clue but if it can't handle as well and is not as comfortable - that makes it inferior.

 

[Merc1]

Scathing.....

M

 

[Sunny]

Truth sometimes is....

But I don't for a sec mean to imply C63 is a bad car or does not handle well. It is all relative I guess..

 

[Wunderkind]

The AMG engineer made an example with the handling and grip of the two cars. The C63 is tuned to have a high level of grip and is designed to "let go" gradually even with the ASR switched to 'OFF' so the driver can drift a little (or a lot) and can control the drift with the throttle and catch it quite easily. Go to Youtube and you'll see countless videos with the C63 drifting like the tyres don't cost a cent.

The M3 on the other hand, is designed for maximum adhesion (grip) and even professional drivers find the M3 difficult to drift and once the threshold is breached and it let's go, it really let's go.

One point the AMG engineer did concede is that they need to work on the suspensions to give the C63 better ride comfort and they may improve the level of grip. It's not easy to achieve when you have an angry 6.2L V8 engine under the bonnet.

 

[Mr Robert]

The article is a great read. I wish I had a scanner so you all could get it today, but I guess it will be out soon enough.

 

[Merc1]

Truth sometimes is....

But I don't for a sec mean to imply C63 is a bad car or does not handle well. It is all relative I guess..

I actually agree with you here. It seems to me that the C63 as with any Mercedes when rung out on a track suffers from too much roll. Springs, dampers, etc. they're doing something different or differently for some reason. I know full well they can produce an equal chassis because they've proven it with other cars like the CLK BS and even SL63, but here there is something amiss. Even the CLS55 AMG that Top Gear wrung out around their track a few years ago suffered from less roll. Hmmm....


M

 

[Zafiro]

Aargh, here we go again....



You dont need to drive on a track to notice these two cars are different to drive, that this are cars with different characters. Drive them on the streets and you'll notice they are different animals.

I can't drive my babybimmer to the limit on the streets either, neither can you do it with a Ferrari or a Porsche but you can still feel its different cars you are driving.

Personally, I've driven M3 and C63 and my choice is the M3.
Highreeving engine, manual gearbox (or DCT), bodycontrol, grip and design are the reasons why I prefer M3 to a C63.
And the comfort/ride, C 63 AMG dont have the comfort advantage the C55 had over M3 E46 anymore.
Both are excellent cars but as a complete package, M3 V8 is more attractive.

In the end I dont care what carmags or pro drivers says. I trust my own impressions and feelings.

 

[martinbo]

Some of my full-time instructor cronies have told me that this new M3 is just about the most willing and predictable RWD performance car they have ever driven. In fact the one guy (happens to be an Aston Martin instructor down here) said the M3 was the most docile, controllable and obiding car he'd ever taken around the test track.

So, I guess, in a way the M3 does operate in narrower, more stratified envelope than the C63. The difference is, the M3 is more engaging than the faster, more instantly accessible C63. And let's face it; there are above-average, discerning and passionate drivers out there who will prefer the challenges and rewards offered by the M3.

 

[Wunderkind]

The MCT transmission will be available to the CL63 and C63 by late 2009. The problem is Mercedes is only making enough of the MCT transmission to satisfy the number of SL63's being produced. They are waiting for the demand for the SL63 to fall a little and then make the MCT transmission available to other AMG 63 models.

 

[Wunderkind]

Some of my full-time instructor cronies have told me that this new M3 is just about the most willing and predictable RWD performance car they have ever driven. In fact the one guy (happens to be an Aston Martin instructor down here) said the M3 was the most docile, controllable and obiding car he'd ever taken around the test track.

So, I guess, in a way the M3 does operate in narrower, more stratified envelope than the C63. The difference is, the M3 is more engaging than the faster, more instantly accessible C63. And let's face it; there are above-average, discerning and passionate drivers out there who will prefer the challenges and rewards offered by the M3.

Yes, to summarise it.

The M3 is a devastating weapon in the hands of a skillful driver who can get the most out of it.

Whereas for the C63, it's a case of POWER TO THE PEOPLE! Well, to those who could afford it anyway.

 

[Merc1]

To tide you guys over until the article posts online.

M

 

[Sunny]

The AMG engineer made an example with the handling and grip of the two cars. The C63 is tuned to have a high level of grip and is designed to "let go" gradually even with the ASR switched to 'OFF' so the driver can drift a little (or a lot) and can control the drift with the throttle and catch it quite easily. Go to Youtube and you'll see countless videos with the C63 drifting like the tyres don't cost a cent.

The M3 on the other hand, is designed for maximum adhesion (grip) and even professional drivers find the M3 difficult to drift and once the threshold is breached and it let's go, it really let's go.

One point the AMG engineer did concede is that they need to work on the suspensions to give the C63 better ride comfort and they may improve the level of grip. It's not easy to achieve when you have an angry 6.2L V8 engine under the bonnet.

If you are talking about drifting, 5th gear tested exactly that and they found that while the C63 is more dramatic and produced more tire smoke, the M3 is more controlled and predictable to drift.

Check the 5th gear and Top gear videos. The C63 is a handful and very untidy even in the hands of seasoned drivers like Tiff and Stig, I doubt it will do any better in the hands of a normal driver. The only performance criteria that I can imagine that is more accessible in the C63 than M3 is straight line acceleration.

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[Merc1]

EVO Video has posted online.....!

M3 v C63 AMG | Planet evo | Videos | evo


M

 

[Zafiro]

95% of the owners will never race another M3 or a C63 or even drive like maniacs with their cars. Nor will they drift or go to the track very often.
You dont buy these kind of cars and hope that you one day will meet a M3 owner and race him.
On the streets both these cars are faster than you will ever need and if you drive fast, watch out for the police and try not to hurt innocent people.

That the average driver will enjoy the C63 more than a M3 is nonsense. I can use the power of the M3 just as much as I can use the power from C63.
I'm an average driver but still I can notice its two different cars to drive and I dont have to drive to the limit to appreciate the M3 more.