Daimler & BMW Partnership Talk Thread
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bmer
Tire Trailblazer
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You're happy that it's possible that there won't be V12 engines available for Mercedes models in the future?
justanthony
Highway Hunter
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You're happy that it's possible that there won't be V12 engines available for Mercedes models in the future?
I think he's just happy MB aint cooeperating with BMW on that
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Go read the Business Week report posted by Deutsch guys, and then quit your bitching about sharing six cylinder and eight cylinder engines. 
I don't think we're actually comprehending the magnitude of the problems these companies are facing.
BMW and MB MUST cooperate extensively. They do not have the economies of scale and protection Audi has because of VW.
I don't think we're actually comprehending the magnitude of the problems these companies are facing.
BMW and MB MUST cooperate extensively. They do not have the economies of scale and protection Audi has because of VW.
bmer
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UPDATE:
BMW and Mercedes Pool Resources in Face of Economic Downturn
16.02.2009
DW
Premium brands have been hard hit by the global recession, which is pushing Germany's two luxury automakers to put aside their rivalry and join forces in development and production.
BMW and Daimler's Mercedes-Benz are sharing their research and production facilities as the auto industry looks to streamline costs during what is expected to be the worst economic slump in decades, according to the weekly Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.
The two prestigious German archrivals have talked about pooling their resources for years, but engineers at both companies have been protective about proprietary technology.
Now with premium sedans suffering a sharp dive in worldwide sales and mounting pressure to cut costs, combining production to cut costs has become a practical option.
A Daimler spokesman declined to comment on the newspaper report on Sunday, but said that an announcement would be made by top executives at the company's annual financial meeting in Stuttgart on Tuesday.
Sharing components, but no cross-shareholdings
At BMW's Munich headquarters, a spokesman told reporters that both luxury automakers were already working on a joint project in developing hybrid powered vehicles that partly run on electrical power.
Both companies said in a statement on Monday that they do not foresee cross shareholdings in each other's companies and talks about creating a common vehicle platform have been abandoned, but the daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported that the two automakers plan to jointly design, buy and produce components such as air-conditioning systems and seatbelts for new models.
Full article: BMW and Mercedes Pool Resources in Face of Economic Downturn | Business | Deutsche Welle | 16.02.2009
BMW and Mercedes Pool Resources in Face of Economic Downturn
16.02.2009
DW
Premium brands have been hard hit by the global recession, which is pushing Germany's two luxury automakers to put aside their rivalry and join forces in development and production.
BMW and Daimler's Mercedes-Benz are sharing their research and production facilities as the auto industry looks to streamline costs during what is expected to be the worst economic slump in decades, according to the weekly Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.
The two prestigious German archrivals have talked about pooling their resources for years, but engineers at both companies have been protective about proprietary technology.
Now with premium sedans suffering a sharp dive in worldwide sales and mounting pressure to cut costs, combining production to cut costs has become a practical option.
A Daimler spokesman declined to comment on the newspaper report on Sunday, but said that an announcement would be made by top executives at the company's annual financial meeting in Stuttgart on Tuesday.
Sharing components, but no cross-shareholdings
At BMW's Munich headquarters, a spokesman told reporters that both luxury automakers were already working on a joint project in developing hybrid powered vehicles that partly run on electrical power.
Both companies said in a statement on Monday that they do not foresee cross shareholdings in each other's companies and talks about creating a common vehicle platform have been abandoned, but the daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported that the two automakers plan to jointly design, buy and produce components such as air-conditioning systems and seatbelts for new models.
Full article: BMW and Mercedes Pool Resources in Face of Economic Downturn | Business | Deutsche Welle | 16.02.2009
coolraoul
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It just doesn't make sense to spend so much developping V8s, V12s if you can cooperate to make them. With such low numbers.
It's such an easy task today to tune the motor to exactly what you want with exhaust, engine mapping, turbo management and gearbox fine-tuning...
Take the same motor, tune it to either comfort or more sporty, and voilà!
Same can be said to many thing. Development work in common, fine-tuning to fit your philosophy, and you have enormous scale-savings at no cost.
It's just perfect for Daimler and BMW, as they have the same needs: high quality materials, high-technology equipments.
The only thing is that what is common has to be hidden.
It's such an easy task today to tune the motor to exactly what you want with exhaust, engine mapping, turbo management and gearbox fine-tuning...
Take the same motor, tune it to either comfort or more sporty, and voilà!
Same can be said to many thing. Development work in common, fine-tuning to fit your philosophy, and you have enormous scale-savings at no cost.
It's just perfect for Daimler and BMW, as they have the same needs: high quality materials, high-technology equipments.
The only thing is that what is common has to be hidden.
bmer
Tire Trailblazer
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Exactly.
BMW & Mercedes have both tried to merge with a large-scale production brand (Rover & Chrysler) and both times it ended with disastrous results.
BMW already has good experience with their co-operation with PSA regarding Mini. It was also reported that BMW & Fiat were studying co-operation with small cars but I don't know how Fiat's new projects (Chrysler, Tata etc.) have effected that possibility.
There isn't a larger manufacturer whom with it would make sense for BMW or Mercedes to merge with. So the only possibility is to co-operate as a merger between the two companies doesn't make sense either due to extensive overlapping operations. Still, alone they are vulnerable but together they have a chance against the competitors.
At Audi they have the vast resources of VAG behind them which saves them billions of euros in R&D costs. It also enables more efficient supplier competition. As reported today, Audi is now on the top in Western Europe's sales which means BMW and Mercedes are prone to be overtaken by Audi soon even in global scale. This just increases the pressure for BMW & MB to co-operate.
Fortunately for them Toyota hasn't been very succesful with Lexus in European market and neither have the Americans luxury brands but the competition could get tighter when Infiniti and other brands join in. However the global trend towards smaller cars is a much severe threat though.
For those who understand German there is a good commentary on the Die Welt website: Kommentar: Daimler muss mit der Konkurrenz kooperieren - Nachrichten Wirtschaft - WELT ONLINE
For Anglophones a translation: Translated version of http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article3219413/Daimler-muss-mit-der-Konkurrenz-kooperieren.html
BMW & Mercedes have both tried to merge with a large-scale production brand (Rover & Chrysler) and both times it ended with disastrous results.
BMW already has good experience with their co-operation with PSA regarding Mini. It was also reported that BMW & Fiat were studying co-operation with small cars but I don't know how Fiat's new projects (Chrysler, Tata etc.) have effected that possibility.
There isn't a larger manufacturer whom with it would make sense for BMW or Mercedes to merge with. So the only possibility is to co-operate as a merger between the two companies doesn't make sense either due to extensive overlapping operations. Still, alone they are vulnerable but together they have a chance against the competitors.
At Audi they have the vast resources of VAG behind them which saves them billions of euros in R&D costs. It also enables more efficient supplier competition. As reported today, Audi is now on the top in Western Europe's sales which means BMW and Mercedes are prone to be overtaken by Audi soon even in global scale. This just increases the pressure for BMW & MB to co-operate.
Fortunately for them Toyota hasn't been very succesful with Lexus in European market and neither have the Americans luxury brands but the competition could get tighter when Infiniti and other brands join in. However the global trend towards smaller cars is a much severe threat though.
For those who understand German there is a good commentary on the Die Welt website: Kommentar: Daimler muss mit der Konkurrenz kooperieren - Nachrichten Wirtschaft - WELT ONLINE
For Anglophones a translation: Translated version of http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article3219413/Daimler-muss-mit-der-Konkurrenz-kooperieren.html
EMpower
Autobahn Explorer
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BMW and Daimler in talks over 7% share swapping deal
The saga between BMW and Daimler forming a strategic alliance dates back more than two years. To this day, nothing major has materialized except a deal over procurement and purchasing of common components, but according to latest reports the two German automotive groups may be about to embark on a share swapping deal.
Germany’s Der Spiegel has reported today that Daimler and BMW would acquire a 7% stake in each other, though how this would benefit the two carmakers remains unclear. BMW’s biggest shareholder with a 46% stake, the Quandt family, is reportedly against the deal as they fear Daimler may attempt a takeover.
BMW and Daimler in talks over 7% share swapping deal - German Car Magazine
The saga between BMW and Daimler forming a strategic alliance dates back more than two years. To this day, nothing major has materialized except a deal over procurement and purchasing of common components, but according to latest reports the two German automotive groups may be about to embark on a share swapping deal.
Germany’s Der Spiegel has reported today that Daimler and BMW would acquire a 7% stake in each other, though how this would benefit the two carmakers remains unclear. BMW’s biggest shareholder with a 46% stake, the Quandt family, is reportedly against the deal as they fear Daimler may attempt a takeover.
BMW and Daimler in talks over 7% share swapping deal - German Car Magazine
NarutoRamen
Kraftwagen König
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I think we'll have to wait on more info, because it's been speculation so far with no hard proof.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
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This story has a long beard.
Something has been cooking for a few years now.
Check my posts in the following threads:
http://www.germancarforum.com/autom...andts-finally-forming-automotive-holding.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/automotive-sales-business-news/17750-possible-bmw-daimler-merger.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/autom...5464-daimler-bmw-partnership-talk-thread.html
The new badge has already been designed ...
Something has been cooking for a few years now.
Check my posts in the following threads:
http://www.germancarforum.com/autom...andts-finally-forming-automotive-holding.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/automotive-sales-business-news/17750-possible-bmw-daimler-merger.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/autom...5464-daimler-bmw-partnership-talk-thread.html
The new badge has already been designed ...
- Messages
- 11,279
This story has a long beard.
Something has been cooking for a few years now.
Check my posts in the following threads:
http://www.germancarforum.com/autom...andts-finally-forming-automotive-holding.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/automotive-sales-business-news/17750-possible-bmw-daimler-merger.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/autom...5464-daimler-bmw-partnership-talk-thread.html
The new badge has already been designed ...
Is the Quandts concern real or heresay?
EnI
Piston Pioneer
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Aqton SE is real, with 17.44% share in BMW AG already - currently only shares of Stefan Quandt has been transfered to Aqton - he being the only shareholder in Aqton SE.
The transfer of Johanna's & Susanne's share in BMW AG to Aqton is to be done in the near future - both of them getting share in Aqton instead.
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I look forward to seeing C-class command knob in the next 3er.
Well hopefully the other way around then, because I think the 3er iDrive knob is much better looking than the C's
That fusion logo is nasty though, lol. It's like a white shark having sex with a seal.
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