M3/M4 CHRIS HARRIS: WHY ARE PEOPLE BEATING UP ON THE BMW M3?

[KiwiRob]

I'm more convinced than ever that, during this calamitous demise of the printed car magazine and the mass proliferation of internet-based media, the results in automotive publications are heavily influenced by, and even paid for, by car manufacturers.

I'm still a regular purchaser of Car, EVO and sometime's TopGear magazine, I prefer reading a paper magazine to a digital copy, I also prefer reading a read book made from paper than use a kindle.

 

[klier]

I'm still a regular purchaser of Car, EVO and sometime's TopGear magazine, I prefer reading a paper magazine to a digital copy, I also prefer reading a read book made from paper than use a kindle.

You might prefer it, but what is written is mostly crap by untalented people who are being paid to write certain stuff, and who are writing for a medium that is about to go extinct. The good people have left, people don't by mags anymore and the internet is where the real stuff is to be found.

 

[mini_cooper4]

Steering feedback is supposedly better on the F80 than the E90 according to Mr Harris. As far as weight goes, yes the F80 is 500lbs heavier than an E30 but it still manages to outperform E30 is acceleration, braking and outright grip. Have your cake and eat it too

What do you mean by further disconnection from the driving [experience]? It's a vague term that people throw around way too often.

Acceleration, braking and outright grip doesn't necessary mean more fun. By further disconnection I mean electric steering.
The steering in the E92 M3 isn't really a benchmark I admit that.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

You might prefer it, but what is written is mostly crap by untalented people who are being paid to write certain stuff, and who are writing for a medium that is about to go extinct. The good people have left, people don't by mags anymore and the internet is where the real stuff is to be found.

"Buy".

And what an utterly ridiculous post. One of your most ridiculous, and that's saying something. It's just utter, ill-informed garbage. IMHO.

Firstly, to dismiss "MOSTLY" all magazine journalists as "untalented" is grossly wide of the mark. Are you for real?! Untalented?!

Secondly, to say that they are "paid" to write certain stuff would require some kind of pattern. Just because they come to a verdict different to how you see it, even though you've never driven the car they're giving a verdict on, is ridiculous.

Thirdly, if magazines are being paid to say certain things, why do not think video journalists aren't being paid either? Often they're the same bloody people writing the magazines!

Fourthly, extinct suggests that NO magazines will be sold in the near future. Whilst I agree circulation numbers are going down, there will also be a place for magazines to some extent. TV didn't make the newspaper go extinct. The CD didn't make vinyl go extinct. Downloads haven't made CDs become extinct. There will be a status quo which will see magazines and the internet exist at the same time.

 

[Monster]

IMO nothing is actually real on the internet. It just gives more people more ways to carry out their agenda.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

IMO nothing is actually real on the internet. It just gives more people more ways to carry out their agenda.

The most obvious accusation of bias is British mags in favour of JLR. Yet nobody can give me an answer as to why, if they're being paid by JLR, they would be allowed to make the Jag F-Type second from bottom in a "best car of 2014" group test?

So, anybody like to hazard a guess?

 

[Monster]

The most obvious accusation of bias is British mags in favour of JLR. Yet nobody can give me an answer as to why, if they're being paid by JLR, they would be allowed to make the Jag F-Type second from bottom in a "best car of 2014" group test?

So, anybody like to hazard a guess?

Insufficient amount of money were paid to the journalists

 

[Giannis]

The most obvious accusation of bias is British mags in favour of JLR. Yet nobody can give me an answer as to why, if they're being paid by JLR, they would be allowed to make the Jag F-Type second from bottom in a "best car of 2014" group test?

So, anybody like to hazard a guess?

Without taking sides and assuming that JLR is indeed giving both Jags and pounds at UK journalists, my wild guess for why it is second from bottom in the best car of 2014 would be the following:

UK media are hyper inflating what the F-Type essentially is (an english muscle car, with outdated tech, but brilliant character and design) to something superior of the 911. But putting it against what the "best car of 2014" contenders are, it simply can't be placed higher of a 458 (for instance). Anything of its segment (be it a 911 or anything else) couldn't be placed higher, in my opinion.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

but brilliant character and design....

So why is that not a valid reason for it to do well? Why does it have to be as a result of a "bribe"? To a car journalist I can see why that would be a reason to place the Jag high. Would I buy a Jag F-Type? No, I wouldn't, and I'm one of the few people on here who've actually driven one (I get the impression anyway). But I can see why a motoring journalist would say it's a fun car. Even Chris Harris says he loves the F-Type.

The problem is, a lot of people on here choose cars on paper, where as journalists are actually experiencing at first hand the cars they write about.

 

[Giannis]

So why is that not a valid reason for it to do well? Why does it have to be as a result of a "bribe"? To a car journalist I can see why that would be a reason to place the Jag high. Would I buy a Jag F-Type? No, I wouldn't, and I'm one of the few people on here who've actually driven one (I get the impression anyway). But I can see why a motoring journalist would say it's a fun car. Even Chris Harris says he loves the F-Type.

The problem is, a lot of people on here choose cars on paper, where as journalists are actually experiencing at first hand the cars they write about.

Well, I don't have an answer. It was just a wild guess

 

[KiwiRob]

The most obvious accusation of bias is British mags in favour of JLR. Yet nobody can give me an answer as to why, if they're being paid by JLR, they would be allowed to make the Jag F-Type second from bottom in a "best car of 2014" group test?

So, anybody like to hazard a guess?

Yet nobody hauls up US magazines over their bias or Germans over theirs. I don't believe the UK press have a JLR bias anymore than say Autocar has a BMW bias or Car has a thing for Audi.

 

[Mars1965]

The most obvious accusation of bias is British mags in favour of JLR.

For me it isn't. Who is conceirned about Jaguar? You because you have driven one?

Im talking about the three Germans. VAG (Audi), MB and BMW. I don't think Jaguar belongs here anyway (in term of sales etc.)

Have you read AMS, Autobild, Autozeitung, Autovisie etc? I have for over 20 years.

I'll give you one example to think about before we go into the content of test and writing.

Someday on the Autozeitung HOMEPAGE there was a DIRECT link in the HEAD of this page to "Audiblog". It was removed a few days later because of the comment. Need more proof?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

For me it isn't. Who is conceirned about Jaguar? You because you have driven one?

Im talking about the three Germans. VAG (Audi), MB and BMW. I don't think Jaguar belongs here anyway (in term of sales etc.)

I have absolutely NO interest in Jaguar or Land Rover at all. Zero interest. I don't know why there is the interest there is in the cars. However, 95% of the time when "bias" is mentioned, it's in relation to a review of a Jag by a British mag.

Have you read AMS, Autobild, Autozeitung, Autovisie etc? I have for over 20 years.

That's the thing. A large proportion of the members on here DON'T speak German, and therefore they don't read these reviews. Hence it's British mags that get all the flack.

 

[Mr Robert]

So, are we looking at Car Gate here? The setting is far too similar to that of Gamer Gate...

 

[Mars1965]

I have absolutely NO interest in Jaguar or Land Rover at all. Zero interest. I don't know why there is the interest there is in the cars. However, 95% of the time when "bias" is mentioned, it's in relation to a review of a Jag by a British mag.



That's the thing. A large proportion of the members on here DON'T speak German, and therefore they don't read these reviews. Hence it's British mags that get all the flack.

I don't read the UK carmagazines often. So I can not give you an objective opinion on these. What I can see is that the carmanufacturors found a "cheap" way of Marketing and that the journalists follow.

Where is the time of these reviews (http://www.germancarforum.com/threa...3-6-vs-mercedes-420se-w126.52038/#post-720056 )

Pros and contras but with respect to each brand and its engineering (and therefore its engineers). This kind of journalism in Dutch or German nowedays you will only find in the Belgian "Autogids" IMO.

What stands for me (also what I read on the internet) is the influence of the carmanufacturors on the journalistic carreviews and -tests. (I'am not talking about the press releases or personal preference which is OK for me, as long as it is mentioned).

The "long-arm" of the carindustry is visible daily and the ethic of carjournalists is on debate.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Car bias exists but i don't think that's specific to british mags. Once upon a time when i was heavily reading french printed auto press, i couldn't help but laugh at some of the reviews outcomes. Now why is there such a bias ? Is it because of nationalistic pride ? Because of financial considerations ? (I am not saying that automakers are outright bribing journos, but when you have 2/3 of the ads space in your mag bought by your national manufacturors, then you have to choose very wisely you words when you test their cars). Because of this i ended up reading more belgian mags.

 

[Rolf]

I thought this thread is about Chris Harris and why people are beating about the M3? LOL

 

[Giannis]

Keep it civil guys. No need for things to heat up.

 

[Porsche Guy]

You might prefer it, but what is written is mostly crap by untalented people who are being paid to write certain stuff, and who are writing for a medium that is about to go extinct. The good people have left, people don't by mags anymore and the internet is where the real stuff is to be found.

The writing in EVO magazine is the best I've come across on any platform or medium. Their youtube channel kills it as well.

 

[klier]

The writing in EVO magazine is the best I've come across on any platform or medium. Their youtube channel kills it as well.

You are right, there are some that are really good. I was talking in hyperbole, but the mags in general aren't what they used to be

And it makes sense, why would I read some journalists article on a car when it's just as easy to find tons of owners experiences. Those are the ones that hold the real value these days. I don't care all that much about how it's written, as long as I can understand it. For the fine grammar and neat sentences I'll read a novel.