BMW Quality Issues?

[Zafiro]

Sales don't mean anything. People will buy these cars with the badge they desire the most. I'll bet actual design and interior play a smaller role than brand when it comes to buyers of these cars.

M-B sold at record highs when their reliability was tanking.

You can disregard facts and consumer reports, but that's just ignorant reality. If I want to buy a car, I research it in various forms. All of those forms that I have collected show the F10 having subpar quality/reliability, and in some cases, disastrous. Even many of its biggest fans on the Message Boards of *Owners* say that the reliability/quality issues they can do without. In comparison, you don't see the consistency and irregularities, along with drastic issues on the newest M-B models Forums. J.D Reports, Consumer Reports, etc. just further validate this. Of course, some cars will be perfect and will be exceptions to the rule.

If I want to know about a car I dont use JD. Firstly we have our own survey or I can ask other owners and second just because some americans have problems doesnt mean it reflect the quality for the rest of the world. Its ignorant to think what happens in US happens in the rest of the world. You have JD and you can use it, thats fine but dont expect to think its a general standard for the rest of us.
I have my own boards I go to and people are happy about their bimmers and the quality. But again, I think message boards are even worse meassurement to use since of all owners of a certain car, we, the internet messengers are a minority.

We are not going any further, we are just beating a dead horse. We obviously won't convince each other. My final is this, JD Power survey 2011, England. After this post I have said what I think about carsurveys and message boards and no more is needed to say.

JD Power Survey 2011 - The results
The JD Power survey assesses nine classes of car, from city cars to executive cars and SUVs.
They’ve been judged by the same criteria, including mechanical reliability, desirability, running costs and dealer service.

 

[K-A]

Contrary to some belief, Chevy's/GM's are incredibly durable. You just have to put up with lots of non-drastic quality issues.

 

[klier]

Hahaha, this thread is amazing.
It's Just_Me against all the resident MB and VAG fanboys.

Andreas, why don't you just let this pathetic excuse of a thread die? Or at least leave it to Artist, Deckhook and K-A? It's of no use to argue, since this is nothing but a flamebait thread.

Okay, I'm off again. Good luck trolling guys.

 

[K-A]

LOL. You're something else, Klier. I wonder if you're like this in real life, or if it's just some extremely high strung E-persona.

 

[K-A]

If I want to know about a car I dont use JD. Firstly we have our own survey or I can ask other owners and second just because some americans have problems doesnt mean it reflect the quality for the rest of the world. Its ignorant to think what happens in US happens in the rest of the world. You have JD and you can use it, thats fine but dont expect to think its a general standard for the rest of us.
I have my own boards I go to and people are happy about their bimmers and the quality. But again, I think message boards are even worse meassurement to use since of all owners of a certain car, we, the internet messengers are a minority.

We are not going any further, we are just beating a dead horse. We obviously won't convince each other. My final is this, JD Power survey 2011, England. After this post I have said what I think about carsurveys and message boards and no more is needed to say.

JD Power Survey 2011 - The results
The JD Power survey assesses nine classes of car, from city cars to executive cars and SUVs.
They’ve been judged by the same criteria, including mechanical reliability, desirability, running costs and dealer service.

Maybe owners react to problems differently, idk. What I'm basing my knowledge of the 5-Series' problems on is individual issues within the car that seem to pop up relatively regularly. 5-Series' shipped out to the U.S and to the UK come from the same place, if I'm not mistaken.

Even in that big BMW Documentary on CNBC, some "experts" who praised the characteristics of the brand stated that their troubling quality issues, especially in conjunction with other manufacturers, is inexcusable.

IF they don't be careful, they'll see themselves where M-B did in the early 00's. That's when the slow process of Sales decline starts happening. M-B are now still fending off that tide against them when owners vowed to never buy them again a decade or so ago.

 

[Deckhook]

What this UK JD Power survey reveals is that between Audi, BMW and Mercedes the difference is paper thin and each are as good as each other.

Klier, considering how long you've been here and the number of posts I'm totally lost as to what you bring to a discussion????????????????????

 

[K-A]

What this UK JD Power survey reveals is that between Audi, BMW and Mercedes the difference is paper thin and each are as good as each other.

Klier, considering how long you've been here and the number of posts I'm totally lost as to what you bring to a discussion????????????????????

Haven't you been one of the guys defending BMW's U.S grades anyway? Lol. I don't know how you got bunched in with us "trolls" who apparently have fabricated entire J.D Power statistics and BMW Forums just so we can flamebait BMW here on this GCF Thread.

Seems like it's much closer in the UK. In the U.S, the margin between BMW and M-B reported/statistical reliability-quality is quite large. Oddly enough, the two can't seem to play along. Just a few years ago, they were on opposite ends, and as M-B improved, BMW declined.

 

[Deckhook]

I'm defending BMW solely because I don't believe the surveys EVER show a true reflection of things. All three of these German brands use the exactly same parts suppliers for its sub systems. So it's logical to expect their product to product similar reliability results, beyond that things become muddy because the human element (service, dealer experience) comes into play.

The UK results probably are a result of these three brands having shared dealerships like what we have in N.Ireland.

As for Klier, well he sees anyone as a troll who doesnt agree with BMW's superiority all of the time. So basically he views the rest of the forum as trolls. lol

 

[Zafiro]

Klier you're funny . I love your spirit

 

[Huckfeldt]

LOL. You're something else, Klier. I wonder if you're like this in real life, or if it's just some extremely high strung E-persona.

Wait.. he has a real life ???

Kidding aside, I would like to hear more about F30's interior - its quality and tactility. I own both E46 and E90 LCI, and was planning to complete the triumvirate with an F30, but don't want to end up being disappointed with its interior.

 

[GTA45E]

What I'm basing my knowledge of the 5-Series' problems on is individual issues within the car that seem to pop up relatively regularly.

Completely agree here. There is too much information missing in the European survey Just_me posted to draw a conclusion from the quality issues of the 5-Series. The American JDPower survay offers different, very important categories of the vehicle with charts and graphs to back up the claims from the owners’ experiences. As I stated earlier, it`s far more comprehensive. It`s almost a study course compared to most other quality surveys out there.

As for Klier, well he sees anyone as a troll who doesnt agree with BMW's superiority all of the time. So basically he views the rest of the forum as trolls. lol

It`s called thread hijacking. He should be setting good examples. Some younger BMW fans see him as a leader and will follow his path, as he is one of the greatest BMW seniors here.
He needs to realize that.

 

[Zafiro]

Completely agree here. There is too much information missing in the European survey Just_me posted to draw a conclusion from the quality issues of the 5-Series. The American JDPower survay offers different, very important categories of the vehicle with charts and graphs to back up the claims from the owners’ experiences. As I stated earlier, it`s far more comprehensive. It`s almost a study course compared to most other quality surveys out there.

Source to point out that JD from USA is the best and ultimate survey?
BTW Carmagazine is using 530d Touring as long term car. They had it for a one year and with 20.000 miles behind them and the car been totally flawless according to them. Like K-A said, its 550i that been troublesome and they arent popular in Europe thats why it could be that surveys here are different from JD USA.

GTA you have to let it go, your love for Mercedes isnt healthy for you.

 

[GTA45E]

Source to point out that JD from USA is the best and ultimate survey?
BTW Carmagazine is using 530d Touring as long term car. They had it for a one year and with 20.000 miles behind them and the car been totally flawless according to them. Like K-A said, its 550i that been troublesome and they arent popular in Europe thats why it could be that surveys here are different from JD USA.

20,000 miles from a single car thay tested compare that to the thousands of other 530ds out there from an owners` experience. The picture would be quit different. Thats my point here.

I also figured it was the 550i... but hay, one out of 4 new 5ers I see is a 550i which to me sounds like an excuse for the rest of the lineup. If the 550i is the cause of all the problems, whats the M5 gonna look like. It will be even worse.

.

GTA you have to let it go, your love for Mercedes isnt healthy for you.

 

[Zafiro]

20,000 miles from a single car thay tested compare that to the thousands of other 530ds out there from an owners` experience. The picture would be quit different. Thats my point here.

I also figured it was the 550i... but hay, one out of 4 new 5ers I see is a 550i which to me sounds like an excuse for the rest of the lineup. If the 550i is the cause of all the problems, whats the M5 gonna look like. It will be even worse.

It was just an example to show that there are cars working flawless. In Europe 5-series seem to be doing better, thats my point.
Why would the M5 be worse? its different engine and the car itself is not a copy from 550i, also it takes longer for M5 to reach the market so the testings are still under development. In fact it could be even better, like a 530d.
Time to move on GTA, its not like you are buying a 550i so I dont understand your concern regarding 5-series

 

[Wolfgang]

JD Power Survey 2011 - The results
The JD Power survey assesses nine classes of car, from city cars to executive cars and SUVs.
They’ve been judged by the same criteria, including mechanical reliability, desirability, running costs and dealer service.

That's yet another survey, and seems to only partially, weighed with 24%, include quality/dependability of UK vehicles?

 

[Tarek]

Hahaha, this thread is amazing.
It's Just_Me against all the resident MB and VAG fanboys.

Andreas, why don't you just let this pathetic excuse of a thread die? Or at least leave it to Artist, Deckhook and K-A? It's of no use to argue, since this is nothing but a flamebait thread.

Okay, I'm off again. Good luck trolling guys.

Not all of them..Andy is too fragile..

 

[Deckhook]

If 37% of the survey accounts for vehicle appeal then how the hell does Japanese brands do so well???

Over here the only people I see driving Japanese brands are OAPs and they seldom complain about anything. lol

 

[Zafiro]

If 37% of the survey accounts for vehicle appeal then how the hell does Japanese brands do so well???

Over here the only people I see driving Japanese brands are OAPs and they seldom complain about anything. lol

Dont take those JP surveys literally. Seeing that BMW is doing better in JD from UK should send a warning signal that the survey isn't 100% bulletproof. It's only purpose is to serve certain fanboys

 

[GTA45E]

^

lOl, thats pure nonsense... Maby come face/lift time the 5er will do better. For now it leaves a little to be desired in the quality department. It`s amazingly funny to see all the reactions taken to a personal level
when BMWs quality doesn`t come up to standards...( Is that part of the magical Driving Machine spell? it sure does pull a lot of fan-boy heart strings) I`d like to know what the hell causes all the passions

As much as I like MB I would never take things so personally. Like the car is my wife or girlfriend..

 

[Zafiro]

^

lOl, thats pure nonsense... Maby come face/lift time the 5er will do better. For now it leaves a little to be desired in the quality department. It`s amazingly funny to see all the reactions taken to a personal level
when BMWs quality doesn`t come up to standards...( Is that part of the magical Driving Machine spell? it sure does pull a lot of fan-boy heart strings) I`d like to know what the hell causes all the passions

As much as I like MB I would never take things so personally. Like the car is my wife or girlfriend..

Personally I have more problems with JD Power than I have problem with cars. I have never used JD as a source and I think surveys in general should be taken with a pinch of salt. Sorry if it felt personal