BMW Quality Issues?

[LaArtist]

^So lets take a car like Maserati..its a very nice car.. but has bad quality.
If you like it ..you would buy it?
No matter if it brakes down on you ?

Like old alfas or even old BMW's and Audis used to suck ass when it came to quality.

As long as you like it you don't give a ****?

And since you didn't come up with a way to measure reliability and quality. i guess that's impossible to?

So from now on every car has great quality..even a Citroen is as good as a BMW.. since we can not trust surveys!!

 

[Deckhook]

^ Artist, what is your opinion regarding the UK's JD Power test where the 5 series beat the E-class. Does that mean we in British were luck and American weren't or maybe there's a difference in the standard of dealers between UK and USA for both brands?

Point being each survey seems to product different results so which is the right..... if any?

 

[GTA45E]

Yeah, I base most of mine off of viewing the F10 Forums very regularly. Lots of continuous issues, namely in the beginning of the product cycle.

Still, things like continuous wind noise and vibrations over rough patches have been reported, and the most annoying is that it seems like interior durability is an issue. Some owners have reported switches graphics already fading out, which is utterly unacceptable. Apparently BMW told a person with that issue that BMW doesn't properly dye their buttons, i.e they put a "sticker" on them, which will inevitably fade/remove with time, as opposed to other car manufacturers who actually dye in the plastics.

Powertrain Quality Design: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with the engine or transmission as well as problems that affect the driving experience (i.e., ride smoothness, responsiveness of the steering system and brakes, and handling/stability).

2011 BMW BMW 5-Series...

/ 2011 Mercedes E-Class

Body Interior Quality Design: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with the front-/rear-end styling, the appearance of the interior and exterior, and the sound of the doors when closing.

2011 BMW 5-Series...

/ 2011 Mercedes E-Class...

Body Interior Quality Mechanical: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems with wind noise, water leaks, poor interior fit/finish, paint imperfection, and squeaks/rattles.

2011 BMW 5-Series

/ 2011 Mercedes E-Class

Overall Quality Mechanical: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).

BMW 5er

/ Merc E-Class

 

[LaArtist]

^ I do not know in what way the American differs from the UK one..
Is it the same rules..and for the same time line.

Do you have a list like was posted here.. how BMW has performed from lets say 07 to 11?
I would like to see that.. if its the opposite from what the US one says, and done using the same rules.
Then something is very fishy.. maybe the BMW's get sea sick when transported on ships over the Atlantic

Please post such informations.

Like i said the thread is meant to deal with whats going on.
And one of the answer's can be that the Reports are crap.. in that case lets hear the arguments for that.

 

[Zafiro]

If I want a Maserati I definitively get one...if quality is my main concern I get a japanese car, definitively not a german car.

 

[GTA45E]

^



Why not get the best of both worlds. buy a new Merc!

 

[LaArtist]

If I want a Maserati I definitively get one...if quality is my main concern I get a japanese car, definitively not a german car.

I cant belive i just read that crap..!!

haha Japanese cars have better quality than german?

PS
Please differ between quality and reliability..

 

[deity]

Reliability is a part of quality. You yourself just asked if we would buy a Maserati if it kept breaking down. That is the reliability of a vehicle, which ultimately constitutes the quality of one. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the JD report wasn't about quality quality, like amount of leather covered surfaces ( which the W212 would've obviously lost). These reports are reliability reports...no?

 

[Deckhook]

Who here owned either a BMW, Audi or Mercedes, has it ever developed a fault, if so did the dealer sort it out and get you back on the road promptly?

If the answer is yes then what the f#@k and we going on about.

And if the answer is no then please enlighten us with your bad experience.

 

[Zafiro]

I cant belive i just read that crap..!!

haha Japanese cars have better quality than german?

PS
Please differ between quality and reliability..

Sorry, I mean reliability... I have owned several japanese cars and most of my friends drive japanese cars and when it comes down to reliability they are just outstanding.

 

[Zafiro]

^



Why not get the best of both worlds. buy a new Merc!

Then I buy another brand. Besides Im not a huge fan of E-class when it comes down to design.

 

[chonkoa]

Who here owned either a BMW, Audi or Mercedes, has it ever developed a fault, if so did the dealer sort it out and get you back on the road promptly?

If the answer is yes then what the f#@k and we going on about.

And if the answer is no then please enlighten us with your bad experience.

Owned three BMWs in the last 7 years and believe they aren't as reliable as you would think.
Dealership attitude stinks.

 

[bmwownage]

Jap cars are so simple that they don't really break down, took those 1995 Toyotas as courtesy cars, or even older, sure they aren't anything great to drive, but still a fine machine that's just good for commuting around. I'd say German cars are best out of Euro/Western cars in terms of reliability, there is just too much sophistication... simple e.g. third brake light at the rear, is controlled by about one piece of wire on a Jap car, while on a BMW or something, you have like 5 wires going it, let alone other controls.
We've owned 1 MB and 2 BMWs in the past 10-12 years or so, the MB had a start problem which we never fixed (it takes about 5 seconds of ignition to start the car); a 1series with some kind of problem that the car would sometimes just die at idle, and sold it before it got worse; and the best was a e46 330i which was flawless, that was such a damn nice solid vehicle (except the window regulator fault that happens on all 46s). Reliability is part of quality, i think it's safe and fair to say that Jap cars have an edge in this area of quality.

 

[Deckhook]

Owned three BMWs in the last 7 years and believe they aren't as reliable as you would think.
Dealership attitude stinks.

You say they weren't that reliable, what happened and why did the dealers stink?

 

[Deckhook]

Jap cars are so simple that they don't really break down, took those 1995 Toyotas as courtesy cars, or even older, sure they aren't anything great to drive, but still a fine machine that's just good for commuting around. I'd say German cars are best out of Euro/Western cars in terms of reliability, there is just too much sophistication... simple e.g. third brake light at the rear, is controlled by about one piece of wire on a Jap car, while on a BMW or something, you have like 5 wires going it, let alone other controls.
We've owned 1 MB and 2 BMWs in the past 10-12 years or so, the MB had a start problem which we never fixed (it takes about 5 seconds of ignition to start the car); a 1series with some kind of problem that the car would sometimes just die at idle, and sold it before it got worse; and the best was a e46 330i which was flawless, that was such a damn nice solid vehicle (except the window regulator fault that happens on all 46s). Reliability is part of quality, i think it's safe and fair to say that Jap cars have an edge in this area of quality.

So you are of the opinion that all Japanese cars are simple, does that include Lexus which is generally regarded the best in these surveys?

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Jap cars are so simple that they don't really break down, took those 1995 Toyotas as courtesy cars, or even older, sure they aren't anything great to drive, but still a fine machine that's just good for commuting around. I'd say German cars are best out of Euro/Western cars in terms of reliability, there is just too much sophistication... simple e.g. third brake light at the rear, is controlled by about one piece of wire on a Jap car, while on a BMW or something, you have like 5 wires going it, let alone other controls.
We've owned 1 MB and 2 BMWs in the past 10-12 years or so, the MB had a start problem which we never fixed (it takes about 5 seconds of ignition to start the car); a 1series with some kind of problem that the car would sometimes just die at idle, and sold it before it got worse; and the best was a e46 330i which was flawless, that was such a damn nice solid vehicle (except the window regulator fault that happens on all 46s). Reliability is part of quality, i think it's safe and fair to say that Jap cars have an edge in this area of quality.

At least they use to be. The 2012 Toyota Camry has blind spot assist and a rear view camera!

 

[K-A]

I never been a supporter of JD so dont confuse me with the past. My point is that neither JD or Internet Forums are a general indication of the quality of a car. BMW sold more than 280.000 5-series worldwide 2011 (more than E-class did). If BMW had such quality issues with the 5er then how come we havent seen a drop in sales yet. Artist feel free to use whatever survey you want but to me it takes more than a survey from a certain market before I speak about quality disaster.

Sales don't mean anything. People will buy these cars with the badge they desire the most. I'll bet actual design and interior play a smaller role than brand when it comes to buyers of these cars.

M-B sold at record highs when their reliability was tanking.

You can disregard facts and consumer reports, but that's just ignorant reality. If I want to buy a car, I research it in various forms. All of those forms that I have collected show the F10 having subpar quality/reliability, and in some cases, disastrous. Even many of its biggest fans on the Message Boards of *Owners* say that the reliability/quality issues they can do without. In comparison, you don't see the consistency and irregularities, along with drastic issues on the newest M-B models Forums. J.D Reports, Consumer Reports, etc. just further validate this. Of course, some cars will be perfect and will be exceptions to the rule.

 

[chonkoa]

You say they weren't that reliable, what happened and why did the dealers stink?

3 Series
Stripped cylinder head screws that were made from low yield strength material.
Hard drive malfunction.
Sold the 3 series for the X6.

X5
Oil cooler pump failure.
Front wheel bearing failure.
Foglight/Brakelamp malfunction(nothing to do with bulbs).
Parking brake malfunction.

X6.
Oil cooler malfunction
Primary and Secondary HPFP failure.
Wheel bearing issue.
Multi-CD failure.
Headlamp malfunction
Low Amperage battery from factory

General behaviour from the dealers are:
1. You don't know what you are talking about.
2. We are doing you a favour.
3. Steal from you as much as I can.


I am going to sell the X5 and buy a GM product. Big mistake on my part was having two BMWs in my garage.

 

[LaArtist]

^Ouch..that's bad..

To be honest its been a while since i owned a newer car. How do you feel about this shit??. i mean you pay hard earned money for your cars.
BMW or any brand doesn't actually matter..but this shit must make you fume..
Its not even possible to disregard it as whatever.. i still have a nice looking and good driving car.. so ile live with some shit.

It sure as hell should not be like this.. and if it is all across the board with all new cars.
Hell then ile buy a old tank built mercedes and put that money to other use..

 

[chonkoa]

^Ouch..that's bad..

To be honest its been a while since i owned a newer car. How do you feel about this shit??. i mean you pay hard earned money for your cars.
BMW or any brand doesn't actually matter..but this shit must make you fume..
Its not even possible to disregard it as whatever.. i still have a nice looking and good driving car.. so ile live with some shit.

It sure as hell should not be like this.. and if it is all across the board with all new cars.


Hell then ile buy a old tank built mercedes and put that money to other use..

I have a Chevy truck that I use for my business and spend most of my time driving it hence the need to sell the X5 since my wife is now driving the X6.
I am quite pleased with the services I get from Chevy, if there is one thing I want from any company is Service-Quality.
I think the problem with Premium-brands and their "Stealerships" is that they fail to understand as a customer I control my wallet and will not tolerate shabby treatment. My clients will not tolerate so I have to reason to.