Re: In detail, New CL Class (Thread 6 Cont'd)
Rob said:
There really is no such thing as avant-garde design ...all predictions of "the future" are invariably set to be seen from a contemporary context ..thus, the results will inevitably be expressions of the present -- but that may be at a very highly cultured level, like concept cars.
Well, then they do not translate their interpretaion of the future, seen from a contemporary point of view, in production cars.
They don't have that certain thing to make them interesting, tough they are beautifull.
Well Audi is changing -- they have established a strong position -- they are not about sudden and irrational change ....that would go completely against the aesthetic principles of the brand. As I said earlier, Audi is a design-led manufacturer ...that goes much further than just the appearence of their cars .... Audi's aesthetic philosophy is wholistic -- it is incorporated into the entire system of the brand: marketing, manufacturing, and corporate.
When cars such as the R8 become their standard, rather than their exception, that's when they'll become a design leader.
I contradict your point that Audi's philosophy is wholistic, since they don't have one. That's what VW/Audi din't realise when they started chassing the big boys.
Vorsprung durch Technik -- this is more than just a pragmatic slogan -- it is a metaphysical one too -- the whole culture of the brand is built around this pusuit of advancement through technology -- it is a clean, all encopassing, and very Teutonic aesthetic.
Don't buy this. Their brand doesn't have a culture of their own.
Well sure ...it is clearly a part of the evolution of the brand ...I think we have seen quite clearly that Audi have become more expessive with their recent designs
Switching from Aero To Bauhaus to Humanity is evolution ?!
Not to mention that Audi have not created the brand image/philosophy of their own like the rest.
That is a moot point Imhotep Evil -- I don't think Audi is following BMW in terms of actual design perse ...
The idea/philosophy is the same, humanity, they said it themselves. It's just that the execution is very diferent.
but of course BMW have been enormously influential in the design world ..Audi, being a pragmatic and receptive design-led company, are naturally going to take notice of design philosophies from other leaders ....but like BMW, that is not confined to the auto-industry ....but also from all facets of art, music, architecture, science, information technology and IT culture, philosophy, anthropology and sociology. There are people who are professional trend spotters -- they are employed by companies like Audi, Nike, IBM, etc. to research all manor of social, cultural, and design trends.
Agreed.
But Nietzsche was referring to metaphysics as it pertains to religion. I am using the term metaphysics in a more general sense ...metaphysics meaning the subconscious, underlying associations of semiotics and specific aesthetics in our contemporary culture -- of course, these associations and meanings can vary from one culture to another ...or from person to person ...but also can change over time.
All objects are metaphysical -- it is a basic human condition that we make associations and cultural references throughout our lives with each experience ....we attach subconscious meanings to the objects we encounter -- some objects are highly metaphysical ...and BMW is certainly highly metaphysical ....there are some very strong signals given off from BMWs designs ....subliminal references are alerted -- wasn't one of the BMW car designs inspired by a particular model or actress?
Are you not comfusing "man sybolical animal" with "metaphysical" man ?!
Also Nietzsche did not have a problem with religion in general, but with monotheistic/abrahamic religions.
In his critics of metaphysics Nietzsche was outraged by the fact that Shopenhauer considered moral (cristian moral based on the notion of sin ) part of the human nature.
And the metaphysical man thus becamed a christian man, a creation of christian philosophers. On his work "Birth of Tragedy" he proved Shopenhauer wrong.
Metaphycs is thus a buch of sterile words/sentences, and the metaphysical man an illusion-invention, anti-human. But man, seen by Nietzsche, is a creator, capable of developing symbols, his own universe.
Well that was precisely my innitial point.
So we share the same opinion here, we just expres it a bit diferently.
...BMW didn't invent this idea either ...one could argue that Ferrari have been "human" since the beginning ...and certainly Pagani are very "human" -- what they are referring to is design that arouses emotional responses ....through semiotics and aesthetics.
