BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies

[warot]

Haha I just cannot play with you guys, this is way out of my league. However, I will say a few things.

BMW - Like you guys all mentioned, ground breaking, kind of hurt their image in way for being too liberal. However, the fact is, it was a success and I'm sure many companies wished they were on the same boat. On top of that, the new generation of Bangle cars are much easier to swallow (personally, I think they are amazing)

Audi - You guys alreayd hit it on the nail. They will be the "new" BMW imo.

Benz - I just find them way too inconsistent. I think cars like the SLK and CL are amazing looking and are very MB. Extremely classy. However, the R class and GL for example are just... how can I say it. Blah? There's no design highlight whatsoever. It's just not high class like the brand that MB are.

 

[Alexandro]

totally disagree

the 3er sedan does not look like 5er and 7er too !

 

[Deutsch]

I saw a new S-class today and thought "cool, but not special", immedeately afterwards I realized that the new S-class has completely lost the grace of prior S-class's that we have come to admire and aspire to. MB has felt compelled to give an answer the to radicalism excercised by BMW in the design of the 7er and flopped. Only with the AMG sport package is the design in some small way, redeemed, thanks to the nicely sculpted wheels and traditional AMG ground effects surrounding.

 

[SDNR]

I just think MB need to refine their aesthetic a bit. The current Mercedes design style (S/CL) has a lot of potential that has not been fully realized yet.....I am confident the next SL will be very special.

 

[Deutsch]

I just think MB need to refine their aesthetic a bit. The current Mercedes design style (S/CL) has a lot of potential that has not been fully realized yet.....I am confident the next SL will be very special.

Don't get your hopes up, that's what I thought about the new 6er before it came out, have only been able to come to terms w/ the convertible (for some odd reason).

 

[LaArtist]

Yeah the next SL will be a failure..
LMAO

Note this..
As far as the flagship modells (CL/S/SL) go
MB has NEVER dropped the ball in terms of design.. not even once..
each of these modells have felt like they cant do it better next time..but they always do and until the day the new modell comes the existing modell feels fresh compared to the competition.. only when the new modell arrives it makes the previous look old..
Now thats a way to design cars..

living examples C215 and W220.. and im sure the SL will be the same..

 

[Zafiro]

Yeah the next SL will be a failure..

There is a chance that next SL wont look as good as current SL. You know SL is my favorite Benz - Its going to be real hard to improve the looks of SL. I mean, how can you improve something thats already perfect?

 

[LaArtist]

i asked the same question about the S and CL.. wich in my eyes where perfect..
but as we all know..they improved it..
so if you see to the history of the brand you should not be worried

 

[PanterroR]

Re: In detail, New CL Class (Thread 6 Cont'd)

...Mercedes is a little bit untidy -- the CL is an attractive car -- but, like the S, it should have been a magnificent car ....there are many things about its design that do not sit comfortably with me.

So true, so true...

Karma given for great thread!

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Only with the AMG sport package is the design in some small way, redeemed, thanks to the nicely sculpted wheels and traditional AMG ground effects surrounding.

Yep, I agree.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

I just think MB need to refine their aesthetic a bit. The current Mercedes design style (S/CL) has a lot of potential that has not been fully realized yet.....I am confident the next SL will be very special.

The CL is quite nice, and could look even better. The S without AMG is a lost case IMO (hope the FL proves me wrong tough).
The SL, if MB learns something with the CL, could look even better.
Still, IMO the flagship in desgin is the CLS, witch I loved from day 1.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Yes, perhaps his actual designs have not influenced them directly (it looks like it comes from the apocalypse) ... but his ideas are very influential.

Also we should not neglect the significant influence of the French philosophers: Jacques Derrida and Jean-François Lyotard.

Other great thinkers in Italian design are Andrea Branzi, Ettore Sottsass, and Alessandro Mendini ....these men have influenced the entire world culture of design since the last quarter of the twentieth century.

In a time when computers were large, intimidating, boxes that took up entire rooms, Ettore Sottsass' Olivetti Elea 9003 computer from 1958 ...was designed to be "user-friendly". Sottsass designed the Elea 9003 to look "cute" almost like a childs toy -- an early example of "Human design" -- this was a very revolutionary and influential idea at the time.


This sideboard from 1981 is a further example of Sottsass' playful aesthetic ...it is anti-Modern design ....emotion over function.

Thank God for these people. When I was smaller, seeing some movies about the possible future trully scared me. The (architectural) vision was uniforn/industrial black and grey, unfriendly/un/anti-human.

Also another possible influence could be Alvin Toffler. He did point out the idea of diferentiation/costumisation (ergo the death of the one sausage cut in differnt sizes at BMW). And that a corporation should focus on what it does best, better than its competitors, and a lot of other ideas.

 

[SDNR]

....do not underestimate the importance of design -- it has become a major aspect of these companies identities ...and Mercedes is lagging behind Audi and BMW at present.

After thinking about this earlier statement, I think I should say that Mercedes is the German company that has spent the longest time building a brand identity through design ..BMW and Audi/VW followed.

 

[LaArtist]

LOl man i love your opinions rob..they change alot..thats gr8..

i guess you love all the 3 brands

 

[Centurion]

I associate Audi with uber quality, the horison were comfort meets sportyness and last but not least contemporary design. Contemporary in the way that they cars look very modern and fresh like a new TV-set or MP3-player. Audi reminds me of Sony and their products. Both company produce very modern looking products which are not nessecarily futuristic but they look just right for their time period. What's hot right now is very edgy fyrfaces to reflect lights in all different directions making the product look cool. Black in combination with chrome details is something i see on a regular basis.

 

[SDNR]

LOl man i love your opinions rob..they change alot..thats gr8..

i guess you love all the 3 brands

Yes they do I guess ...but my opinion has not changed with regard to Mercedes.

 

[LaArtist]

^true true

 

[SDNR]

I associate Audi with uber quality, the horison were comfort meets sportyness and last but not least contemporary design. Contemporary in the way that they cars look very modern and fresh like a new TV-set or MP3-player. Audi reminds me of Sony and their products. Both company produce very modern looking products which are not nessecarily futuristic but they look just right for their time period. What's hot right now is very edgy fyrfaces to reflect lights in all different directions making the product look cool. Black in combination with chrome details is something i see on a regular basis.

I totally agree Lu. I have suggested similar things in the past. Audi's design language/style is smooth and clean -- subtle and sophisticated. It has its roots in the traditions of Teutonic Modernism but it also has a fashionable aspect too.

At first glance, the Audi aesthetic seems quite subtle, maybe even slightly ambiguous, but it is actually quite a bold and dynamic style that expresses very modern ideas and values.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

After thinking about this earlier statement, I think I should say that Mercedes is the German company that has spent the longest time building a brand identity through design ..BMW and Audi/VW followed.



I absolutely detest that photo of the S-class. There is something extremely wrong with it. The car looks bulbous and like a Hyundai (sonata? elantra?). Doesn't do the S justice at all. But i do concede that I always thought the swag line running the length of the vehicle should have been slighly more defined like on the new CL, R-class etc. It one aspect of the S-class that bugs me.

So Rob you feel that MB in the past went to the greatest lengths to develop an identity through design, but have now been overtaken by BMW and AUDI in this respect?

I still feel MB's are instantly recognizable, however with recent models, to capture some appeal/edginess of BMW's design, they have begun to introduce ‘new’ design elements. It's the start of a new cycle and in time these will probably also become consistent styling cues across the range, though not necessarily exclusive to MB. There is a lot more “copying” occurring amongst manufacturers these days which is why you end up with Korean and Japanese cars looking like German ones and vice versa.

The new MB's look great to me (though im yet to see the CL in person), but I am not sure how well some of them will hold up against newer competition from Audi and BMW. I am particularly concered about how the S will fair against a newer A8 and 7-series, both of which will undoubtedly be magnificent cars.

 

[SDNR]

I absolutely detest that photo of the S-class. There is something extremely wrong with it. The car looks bulbous and like a Hyundai (sonata? elantra?).

Hmm, I have to say that I don't have a problem with that photo -- and I also will tell you guys that I prefer the designs without all the AMG kit -- I find a lot of the sports cosmetics to be too fussy and disruptive to the purity of the intentions of the design. I do like the AMG kit, but I believe a truly good design does not require such cosmetic extras to have impact.

Overall, after much observation, I will declare that I do like the S class.

So Rob you feel that MB in the past went to the greatest lengths to develop an identity through design, but have now been overtaken by BMW and AUDI in this respect?

I still feel MB's are instantly recognizable, however with recent models, to capture some appeal/edginess of BMW's design, they have begun to introduce ‘new’ design elements. It's the start of a new cycle and in time these will probably also become consistent styling cues across the range, though not necessarily exclusive to MB. There is a lot more “copying” occurring amongst manufacturers these days which is why you end up with Korean and Japanese cars looking like German ones and vice versa.

The new MB's look great to me (though im yet to see the CL in person), but I am not sure how well some of them will hold up against newer competition from Audi and BMW. I am particularly concerned about how the S will fair against a newer A8 and 7-series, both of which will undoubtedly be magnificent cars.

You have said precisely what I have been thinking Mr. Mercedes. Mercedes-Benz has been, and continues to be, the most instantly recognized of the three in my opinion. However, I do not believe Mercedes needed to follow BMWs path. Mercedes has long been a manufacturer that plays it relatively safe. When it comes to design, Mercedes is distinctly "middle-class" -- they are seldom radical or overly risky -- bit they are also not impartial to the influences of short-term trends.

Audi has the best design principles of the three brands in my opinion -- it is the strongest aesthetic and will have the greatest longevity. However, and I must stress this point, that does not necessarily mean their vehicles are the best looking or best designed -- it's just the principles behind the design are the most sound and "future-proof".

BMW is certainly making the most noise in the auto-design world -- they are the "flavour of the day" one might say -- but I can't see this current styling lasting more than a decade -- in the end, it is a fad, a short-term design trend. People will get bored with it ..and car design will move on.

Audi, on the other hand, like Porsche, can develop and tweak their clean aesthetics -- they will evolve and shift much more fluidly with successive generations of car designs.


BMW
BMW is certainly creating interesting-looking cars right now -- inspired by Modern art and contemporary architecture ...but it is not avant-garde, it just hasn't really been seen in auto design before.


Art object by Giacomo Balla from the 1920s

Artwork by Lucio Fontana