BMW M Wants Project One Rival; Needs Upper Management Approval

[hoffmeister_fan]

I was leaning on the gas pretty hard for BMW to do a dedicated mid-engined sports car for a long time. But what would it need to have in order to provide something that's unique and successful? I've been thinking about this since I last posted in this thread, and I don't see BMW offering a unique powertrain from the rest of its offering. I mean, they make great engines in their petrol turbo I4, I6, V8, and V12, but is it sufficiently "special" enough to compete with, say, Ferrari's or McLaren's turbo V8? Sure, they can gut the hell out of them and put some exotic know-how in them, but would it be enough?

I think their would have been demand 5-10 years ago, but maybe BMW's current sporting cred has been sufficiently blunted to the point where an exercise in this type of car will be a guaranteed loss-maker for them. On this though, I'd like to be wrong and I'd want to see what the folks in M can cook up if left to their own devices.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I thing that BMW's hyper car will be based on the Formula E experiance

 

[Matski]

I was leaning on the gas pretty hard for BMW to do a dedicated mid-engined sports car for a long time. But what would it need to have in order to provide something that's unique and successful? I've been thinking about this since I last posted in this thread, and I don't see BMW offering a unique powertrain from the rest of its offering. I mean, they make great engines in their petrol turbo I4, I6, V8, and V12, but is it sufficiently "special" enough to compete with, say, Ferrari's or McLaren's turbo V8? Sure, they can gut the hell out of them and put some exotic know-how in them, but would it be enough?

I think their would have been demand 5-10 years ago, but maybe BMW's current sporting cred has been sufficiently blunted to the point where an exercise in this type of car will be a guaranteed loss-maker for them. On this though, I'd like to be wrong and I'd want to see what the folks in M can cook up if left to their own devices.

A dedicated mid-engined sports car doesn't have to play in Ferrari or Mclaren territory.

It's just my 2 c., but If they get the looks right, keep the weight down, and focus on handling, I'd have thought 500hp from a tuned S55 (S58?) would be more than enough, failing that, just stick in the new M V8, it's easily got enough horsepower. Just look at the first gen R8... the standard model had about the same power as a standard M4 does now, it succeeded because it was a well engineered, accessible, and good looking ... it'd also be sensibly priced, which would have a major advantage that Hypercars don't - and that's bringing new customers to the brand who are currently spending money in a Porsche dealership.

I am confident that BMW could engineer such a car... even with its batteries and motors the i8 was lighter (I think) than the R8 was, and that's crucial for handling... I think they've got a useable powertrain with the S55 or S63...

Personally, for me the biggest risk is them f***ing up the styling...

... but it doesn't really matter, they seem dead set on not offering anything like this anyway.

Disclaimer: My interest in such a vehicle stems from interest in BMW product planning, capability, direction and previous design exercises. It does not constitute a preference towards this type of vehicle over another. Examples quoted do not constitute my desired specification, and are merely to demonstrate possibilities. No links to motorsport are implied by my suggestions. And I do not know anyone currently working on a BMW hypercar project.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

A dedicated mid-engined sports car doesn't have to play in Ferrari or Mclaren territory.

It's just my 2 c., but If they get the looks right, keep the weight down, and focus on handling, I'd have thought 500hp from a tuned S55 (S58?) would be more than enough, failing that, just stick in the new M V8, it's easily got enough horsepower. Just look at the first gen R8... the standard model had about the same power as a standard M4 does now, it succeeded because it was a well engineered, accessible, and good looking ... it'd also be sensibly priced, which would have a major advantage that Hypercars don't - and that's bringing new customers to the brand who are currently spending money in a Porsche dealership.

I am confident that BMW could engineer such a car... even with its batteries and motors the i8 was lighter (I think) than the R8 was, and that's crucial for handling... I think they've got a useable powertrain with the S55 or S63...

Personally, for me the biggest risk is them f***ing up the styling...

... but it doesn't really matter, they seem dead set on not offering anything like this anyway.

Disclaimer: My interest in such a vehicle stems from interest in BMW product planning, capability, direction and previous design exercises. It does not constitute a preference towards this type of vehicle over another. Examples quoted do not constitute my desired specification, and are merely to demonstrate possibilities....

That's some good lawyerin'

I am not so much questioning how good BMW engines are, whether it's the S55, N58, S63, or the V12, but I am wondering how those in the market would perceive it. Would they consider it exotic enough to be worth their purchase?

It's funny you bring up the first-gen base R8 with its V8. When I was considering this argument, that was what first example that came to mind that may allay my concerns. The only argument I can come up against the R8 V8 example is that when the R8 debuted on sale in 2006, I don't think there was as much of a stigma in sticking a V8 from an RS4 into a supercar as there is today. Granted it was only 10 years-old, but between social media, vloggers/YTers *shudders*, perception/vanity reigns even more supreme especially, as information is more readily available.

The other reason I am letting off the gas a bit regarding a mid-engine BMW sports-car, is the disappointing sales performance of the Acura/Honda NSX. Granted, the NSX has its own problems in that its gestation took much longer than desired and that it is hampered by the defining effortless character of its forebearer. But performance from its bespoke V6/hybrid powertrain (considered to be a 918-lite) and styling (IMO) are not an issue. And the NSX has a legacy that they are able to lean on that's more recent than BMW with their M1.

BTW, I know there's more to a car than its engine. I am putting more emphasis on the powertrain possibilities as I feel confident that the folks in BMW M will yield a state-of-the-art chassis that will be up to snuff when it comes to handling. I am cautiously optimistic that the designers will yield something that's going to be worthwhile if ever they were presented with this agenda.

Pardon this crappy, convoluted post. Usually, I use some good words, often the "best words." *aggressively points to my own head* Today, not so much.

 

[Akrapovicowns]

“With the launch of the revived 8 Series, BMW is very close to having a true supercar in its lineup. However, as awesome as it is, the beautiful coupe isn’t exactly a supercar, so fans around the world have been asking the same question over and over again. Would BMW consider a supercar in the same vein as the legendary M1?


"That's a hard question for me, because I am a car guy," Klaus Frolich, board member for BMW development, commented to Australian journalists in a recent interview. "Personally, once in my life, I would like to make a supercar. I am very looking forward and positive, and I have not given up."

While that’s definitely not a firm confirmation, Frolich leaves the door open for something more extreme from the automaker. In fact, he is the second high-ranked official from the brand to express his desire for a modern-day M1. Earlier this year, we heard Jozef Kaban, who moved from Volkswagen Group to BMW’s design team back in 2017, saying a BMW supercar would be a great idea.


If you look at the company’s portfolio, BMW has the i8, which is pretty close in its concept to hybrid hypercars like the McLaren P1 and the likes. That’s a good starting point, Frolich believes.

"I have a wonderful carbon-fiber chassis for a sports car in my portfolio, and currently it is used in an i8. I would like to use something like that with much more performance, then it will be very soon in the 600 hp region and it will not have a weight of two tons."

Don’t get your hopes up too high yet, as there’s always the business case that needs to be successful for a new model. And, in this case, this won’t be an easy job given the supercar market segment’s size.

"This market segment is so small, but there is always discussion. Yes, a supercar is my personal wish, but I have to persuade my CFO,” Frolich concluded.”

Source: motor1

More smoke

 

[Matski]

More smoke

Yeah, but we know how this is going to end...

 

[Akrapovicowns]

Yeah, but we know how this is going to end...

AMG seems to be pretty happy with its dedicated line-up, and likely expanding it even further with the rumored boxster/cayman competitor. Not to mention brand recognition, both for mercedes and AMG.

They have come a long way, even surpassing BMWs M in many aspects that not long ago would be hilarious just to think about.

Its hard to find a business case for such a car..but the problem is that they cant see past this and realize the many other benefits such a car can provide to the brand.

 

[Matski]

AMG seems to be pretty happy with its dedicated line-up, and likely expanding it even further with the rumored boxster/cayman competitor. Not to mention brand recognition, both for mercedes and AMG.

They have come a long way, even surpassing BMWs M in many aspects that not long ago would be hilarious just to think about.

Its hard to find a busi...

I think there's definitely scope for a standalone, mid-rear engined M sports car. If the GTP regulations for Le Mans come to pass, maybe even something higher, or conversely, something at the everyday track level end (a lightweight 2 seat Caterham/KTM competitor) But... unlike AMG, I don't think it would fit for BMW to introduce stand alone M models within the realms of the existing M line-up of tuned BMW's.

Maybe that's just because I don't think AMG is directly analogous to M. And I believe any standalone M should have some kind of direct link to racing. I do think, if BMW wanted a stand alone competitor to the AMG GT 4 door, they could work with Alpina to develop their first standalone model, as a hyper saloon. Alpina, are afterall more analogous to AMG than BMW M is (IMHO).

 

[EnI]

Oh, BMW supercar ... Here we are. Again.

BMW should be focused on highly profitable digitalization, automatization, electrification instead ... Vanity (ICEV) projects are so archaic & so passé.

 

[Matski]

Oh, BMW supercar ... Here we are. Again.

BMW should be focused on highly profitable digitalization, automatization, electrification instead ... Vanity (ICEV) projects are so archaic & so passé.

I disagree, while the M stands for motorsport, it's still relevant.



Unlikely, but relevant.

 

[dalab]

BMW outlines future supercar plans

BMW looks set to unleash a 450kW-plus hybrid supercar powered by a petrol engine and electric motors.

www.drive.com.au

 

[aleks_16]

Sorry but after so many years i am really tired of those unnecessary interviews and the more pointless answers. Just say nope there is nothing coming and call it a day. The i8 had a big opportunity (I now it is a different concept and so on bla bla bla ) but it is no drivers car it is more a “poser car” looks outstanding but nothing more. So just a lost opertunity to make something great specials to place in 20 years next to a M1 in the museum but nope it would be a disgrace to the M1.

 

[cawimmer430]

Off-topic, but I’ve ridden in the BMW i8 twice now and that car blew me away from a performance point of view. When the driver stepped on that pedal, that 1.5-l turbocharged 3-cylinder really pushed you back deep into the hard leather seats and its glorious noise (or “fake noise”) really providing an emotional experience. WOW.

And people don’t consider the i8 to be a supercar. Ok, I also think it’s a mixture of “partial supercar” and “economical hybrid”, but it’s still an impressive machine that also looks the part.

So, BMW is definitely capable of producing a technologically advanced halo-super-car, but their priorities are somewhere else. Nothing wrong with that.

If I were filthy rich I also don’t think I’d buy a Mercedes-Benz AMG Project One. I’m a sucker for practical cars, not expensive toys.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

I've reached that point where I just don't care if they do a legit high-performance sports car. I feel like that window is shut now.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

but their priorities are somewhere else.

I really have lost the clue, where their priorities are, except the 8-10% margin range, which meanwhile will be missed in the last two quarters of this year.

 

[cawimmer430]

I really have lost the clue, where their priorities are, except the 8-10% margin range, which meanwhile will be missed in the last two quarters of this year.

Making a profit is the goal of all businesses. Can’t blame BMW for producing cars that actually sell.

They have to build SUVs and Crossovers in order to build a handful of models for enthusiasts (notably the M cars). I remember in the mid-1990s when the thought of a BMW SUV or Mercedes SUV just irritated me. Now? I don’t even flinch when I hear that a car company is producing yet another SUV.

 

[KA2607]

Bmw has missed the bus when it comes to supercars and hypercars, imo bmw should have been one step ahead of audi and mercedes in introducing such cars for all the talk about driving dynamics associated with bmw over the years. But bmw fans (including me) would be more than happy if they make their cars drive as sharp as they used to be back in the day and also make their cars look like more timeless.

 

[klier]

Bmw has missed the bus when it comes to supercars and hypercars

What bus? When you miss one, the next one will always come. That's the plus of a bus.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

What bus? When you miss one, the next one will always come. That's the plus of a bus.

It looks like you haven't miss the bus from the gate to the airplane. You may catch the next but it won't be for your plane.

 

[klier]

It looks like you haven't miss the bus from the gate to the airplane. You may catch the next but it won't be for your plane.

For the next, much better plane, indeed.