Report BMW - Jaguar Land Rover collaboration


Kind of makes sense. Although I think the emotional aspect they talk about is a real issue.

I still think a Daimler take-over of Volvo makes much sense.

I think it would be more the other way around, Volvo's owner buying Daimler. Geely already own 9,7%, plus Daimlers largest market is China. BIAC also bought a 5% stake in Daimler, I guess this means it will be a fight amongst the Chinese for control of Daimler in the coming years.
 
I think it would be more the other way around, Volvo's owner buying Daimler. Geely already own 9,7%, plus Daimlers largest market is China. BIAC also bought a 5% stake in Daimler, I guess this means it will be a fight amongst the Chinese for control of Daimler in the coming years.

The German govt would fight that tooth and nail I’m sure.
 
Nope, no carmaker M&A by BMW Group ... only collaborations. M&A by BMW Group - if done - will be within IT sector (some start-ups etc).
 
The German govt would fight that tooth and nail I’m sure.

They didn’t fight to stop KUKA being bought by the Chinese. KUKA are an important company in the manufacturing process for all German auto makers.
 
I think it would be more the other way around, Volvo's owner buying Daimler. Geely already own 9,7%, plus Daimlers largest market is China. BIAC also bought a 5% stake in Daimler, I guess this means it will be a fight amongst the Chinese for control of Daimler in the coming years.
I think I know what you are trying to say, that Geely, being the controlling shareholder of Volvo, could become the controlling shareholder of Daimler. But that does not mean that Volvo would take over Daimler. It means that Geely would control Daimler and Volvo, and in reality Daimler would therefore practically control Volvo, as the biggest subsidiary of their holding company, Geely. Anyway, I think it would be a cool concept.
 
That will never happen, Geely is simply an investor, a big one and a good partner / ally (smart), but I suppose they even got there in terms of control, the reality that we all know is that Daimler is almost 8 times bigger than Geely in earnings, not to speak as a company If someone were to take control over someone, it would be Daimler over any Chinese company, but doing that doesn't interest them at all.
 
I think I know what you are trying to say, that Geely, being the controlling shareholder of Volvo, could become the controlling shareholder of Daimler. But that does not mean that Volvo would take over Daimler. It means that Geely would control Daimler and Volvo, and in reality Daimler would therefore practically control Volvo, as the biggest subsidiary...

If you read what I wrote, I didn't say Volvo would take over Daimler I said Volvo's owner would take over Daimler.

I would say Volvo's hybrid technology is more advanced than Mercedes at the moment, they also build very different vehicles, I can't much in the way of platform sharing, unless Mercedes decide to go FWD for all vehicles smaller than the S Class ;)
 
JAGUAR LAND ROVER PARENT APPROACHES BMW, GEELY IN HUNT FOR PARTNERS

Siddharth Philip, P R Sanjai, Zhang Dingmin and Elisabeth Behrmann
November 12, 2019, 3:37 AM GMT+1


- India’s Tata seeks partnerships for British automotive brand
- Tata already has engine, electrification alliance with BMW



Tata Group, the owner of Jaguar Land Rover, has approached carmakers including China’s Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co. and BMW AG as it seeks partnerships for the beleaguered British automotive business, people with knowledge of the matter said.

India’s largest conglomerate has said it’s open to finding partners for JLR to save on costs and share the burden of investing in electric vehicles. The deliberations were at an early stage and Tata could still approach other potential partners, the people said, asking not to be identified because the information is private. It wasn’t immediately clear how receptive Geely and BMW were.

“There have been no talks with Tata or JLR,” Geely said in a statement. BMW declined to comment, as did Tata.

Any tie-up with a Chinese automaker Geely could potentially help JLR in that market, where its struggles led to a $3.9 billion writedown earlier this year.

Deeper ties between the British luxury brand and BMW would build on an existing collaboration to develop engines and electric-drive technology, though the German carmaker’s former chief executive officer in August ruled out any equity investment.


Scale has become increasingly crucial in the automotive industry as carmakers pool resources to tackle electrification and autonomous driving. The challenge is especially daunting for smaller players such as JLR, which has committed to an ambitious program to offer electric variants for each of its new models from 2020. The British carmaker was an early mover among incumbent manufacturers with the electric I-Pace crossover, introduced last year.

A global downturn that’s hit major markets has added to the pressure, and despite the many challenges of turning fierce rivals into collaborators, the pace of dealmaking has picked up.

Volkswagen AG, the world’s largest carmaker, this year agreed to team with Ford Motor Co. in areas including electrification and self-driving cars. PSA Group — the French owner of Peugeot, Opel and Citroen — last month agreed to combine with Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV to create the world’s fourth-largest automaker by volume.

JLR Turnaround

One potential obstacle for any partner with JLR is the British automaker’s financial struggles. Tata has begun to address some of these issues, providing the brand with a $910 million equity infusion to help bolster its balance sheet.

In China, JLR has struggled with quality and dealership issues. The company reported last month that sales had stabilized, helping parent Tata Motors Ltd. post a narrower-than-projected quarterly loss. The British unit is also near completion of a 2.5 billion-pound ($3.2 billion) savings drive that included thousands of job cuts worldwide.

Tata Group bought the maker of the Jaguar XE sedan and the Land Rover Discovery sport-utility vehicle in 2008 for $2.3 billion. While the conglomerate is open to finding partners for JLR, it doesn’t plan on selling the unit, N. Chandrasekaran, chairman of group holding company, Tata Sons Ltd., said in an interview last month.
 
Either TATA or any new owners of JLR are going to have to dump a tonne of cash into the brand to revitalise it. It's probably easier for BMW to do that as it can always spread the development costs across it's whole line-up, but then it begs the question, what would BMW really be buying... an ailing customer base? I don't think it adds enough to BMW group to warrant the investment of resource, personally. The time scale to get the payback drifts off too far into what is already an uncertain future for the car industry, and the simple bolt-on numbers now don't add up to much.

I like the idea of it, but if BMW said it doesn't make sense I would absolutely agree with them.
 
Either TATA or any new owners of JLR are going to have to dump a tonne of cash into the brand to revitalise it. It's probably easier for BMW to do that as it can always spread the development costs across it's whole line-up, but then it begs the question, what would BMW really be buying... an ailing customer base? I don't think it adds enough to BMW g...
After a decade of aggresssive stretching of product portfolios, many manufacturers are now aiming to simplify their line-ups. If BMW bought Jaguar I would envision them shrinking the portfolio considerably.
 
After a decade of aggresssive stretching of product portfolios, many manufacturers are now aiming to simplify their line-ups. If BMW bought Jaguar I would envision them shrinking the portfolio considerably.

I really haven't seen much simplification in line ups. All I see is a culling of ICE models as they prepare to add back EV models.
 
JAGUAR LAND ROVER PARENT APPROACHES BMW, GEELY IN HUNT FOR PARTNERS

Siddharth Philip, P R Sanjai, Zhang Dingmin and Elisabeth Behrmann
November 12, 2019, 3:37 AM GMT+1


- India’s Tata seeks partnerships for British automotive brand
- Tata already has engine, electrification alliance with BMW



Tata Group, the owner of Jaguar Land Rover, h...

Let's see, they want "partners" ........... what will they want?
They already have BMW as an ally or strategic partner, (platforms, EV drivetrains, ICE engines) ,.
They clearly say they don't want to sell the unit, so what? a percentage? 25%, 50%, or expect to be so bad that they must give up control (51%) or more.

Why GEELY and not another, what is the advantage of this one in particular? your help for a better understanding
Personally I love the idea, as a brand BMW, is reaching its limit of growth in sales that will be around 3 million cars, this would quietly mean 1 million more, and if BMW does not do it another will do it, and there are no more free brands .

Owning almost all English luxury brands (with the exception of Bentley) would look cute, don't you think .........

c96b8636deee7913fa7a55201d2d2b6a.webp

puff-JLR_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqEduPGWXTgvtbFyMaMlYatm4ovIMMP_5WSTNAIgCzTy4.webp


:D
 
Let's see, they want "partners" ........... what will they want?
They already have BMW as an ally or strategic partner, (platforms, EV drivetrains, ICE engines) ,.
They clearly say they don't want to sell the unit, so what? a percentage? 25%, 50%, or expect to be so bad that they must give up control (51%) or more.

Why GEELY and not another, what is the a...
That does look good.
 
I really haven't seen much simplification in line ups. All I see is a culling of ICE models as they prepare to add back EV models.
-Audi are discontinuing the TT and R8
-VW have recently announced that they are going to simplify their lineup.
-Ford Europe are merging the Mondeo and S-Max into a single raised crossover.

These are just a few examples. I can't imagine Mercedes lineup of convertible and coupes looking the same in 5-8 years.

Yes some culled models will be replaced by EV equivalents but not all.
 
-Audi are discontinuing the TT and R8
-VW have recently announced that they are going to simplify their lineup.
-Ford Europe are merging the Mondeo and S-Max into a single raised crossover.

These are just a few examples. I can't imagine Mercedes lineup of convertible and coupes looking the same in 5-8 years.

Yes some culled models will be replaced by...

They don't have to be replaced by equivalents; they're just getting added in new segments. That's great the Ford is merging the Mondeo and S-Max; elsewhere in the lineup they're adding in the Mustang Mach-E crossover. Net zero.

VW has several EVs coming that don't necessarily mirror ICE equivalents. Audi is adding in an EV sportscar and has the Taycan-based EV sports car being added in to the lineup.

When we're out of this transition period maybe we'll see smaller lineups overall but I just see this proliferation of models largely shifting into new arenas.
 
*** BMW's CEO refused to rule out that the firm could potentially further its collaboration with JLR in the future ***


BMW’s boss has refused to deny that his company could collaborate further with Jaguar Land Rover, or invest in the British company outright.

Industry sources suggested earlier this week that JLR owner Tata is actively courting both BMW and a number of Chinese firms including Geely for investment that would allow it to develop new models and the electrification technologies that are going to be increasingly important towards the end of the next decade.

Speaking at the opening of BMW’s new Battery Cell Competence Centre in Munich, the German manufacturer’s CEO Oliver Zipse left the door open on whether his firm could build on an existing deal with JLR, announced in the summer, to develop electric drive units.

“Cooperation and working together is the new normal,” Zipse said. “It’s not only with drivetrains. We also have arrangements with a lot of other component manufacturers, where we go far beyond the normal supply chain.

“With Jaguar Land Rover, we have announced cooperation on the electric drivetrain and that’s running very well. We have another cooperation with them on internal combustion engines. Anything else is the future. There’s no decision on it and I wouldn’t comment on something that has not been decided.”


Source: AutoExpress
 
That means they are in real conversations and evaluating possibilities, so good that BMW has the experience of what happened before, but the reality was that the error and previous problem was Rover for being a mass market and not LR, the latter more Well take it out of the problem.
This time if this happens, it will surely be different
 
*** BMW's CEO refused to rule out that the firm could potentially further its collaboration with JLR in the future ***


BMW’s boss has refused to deny that his company could collaborate further with Jaguar Land Rover, or invest in the British company outright.

Industry sources suggested earlier this week that JLR owner Tata is active...
But what will happen if/when JLR is bought from a competitor of BMW? How will they prevent valuable technical information to not flow to the competitor?
 
But what will happen if/when JLR is bought from a competitor of BMW? How will they prevent valuable technical information to not flow to the competitor?
JLR is already a direct competitor of BMW, before anyone else buys it
 

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