5 Series BMW i5 in the works

[hoffmeister_fan]

How have the global and US sales been for the i3 since its release? EDIT: Nevermind, I found the sales thread..

Having seen one in person for the first time a few months ago, i found the design funky in a postive way, especially for a city car.

BTW, do you guys know of a source that lists and compiles manufacturers' sales that broken down in various criteria, such as markets, model, monthly, year-to-dates? Or does one have to depend on each manufacturer releasing data?

 

[EnI]

The only thing I don't understand is the difference between the two C-Pillars. Why does it need to be that way?

Due to special & innovative tail gate opening. My understanding is the tail gate only feature a single hinge (in the upper right corner), and it can be rotated when opened to make the access to the boot easier. Also the side doors feature some innovative opening method & mechanism beyond rear side doors being suicide-styled doors. All door opening mechanisms are sort of a butterfly-wing-styled. I've been told.

Not sure if that's a production feature or just for a concept purpose.

 

[KiwiRob]

Looks much better than the Model X, so that's a start at least.

I saw my first Model X on the road a couple of days ago, it looks like an elephant with its legs cut off, it's also huge, really huge. It's the Pontiac Aztec or Ssangyong Musso of this generation.

 

[KiwiRob]

If BMW launch a Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle before they release a full BEV equivalent to the 3/4/5 series they are bonkers.

I disagree, IMO electric vehicles are an evolutionary sidestep for the car industry, just like they were 100 plus years ago along with steamers, internal combustion proved to be the best way forward and I think the same will happen with hydrogen fuel cells. They are as green as pure electric, there's no range issues and you fill up at a station just like you do now with an ICE car in minutes.

The Scandinavian govts have committed to building out hydrogen stations, there are 16 stations already open. The UK govt is also committed to funding the buildout of hydrogen infrastructure. A show I watched last week estimated the UK would need 1000 stations to provide complete coverage, at the moment they have about 20 in operation. Shell is also backing it and will start introducing hydrogen filling this year to 2 stations, with more planned for 2017.

 

[Matski]

I disagree, IMO electric vehicles are an evolutionary sidestep for the car industry, just like they were 100 plus years ago along with steamers, internal combustion proved to be the best way forward and I think the same will happen with hydrogen fuel cells. They are as green as pure electric, there's no range issues and you fill up at a station just like you do now with an ICE car in minutes.

The Scandinavian govts have committed to building out hydrogen stations, there are 16 stations already open. The UK govt is also committed to funding the buildout of hydrogen infrastructure. A show I watched last week estimated the UK would need 1000 stations to provide complete coverage, at the moment they have about 20 in operation. Shell is also backing it and will start introducing hydrogen filling this year to 2 stations, with more planned for 2017.

Don't get me wrong, I think hydrogen is an interesting option worth pursuing further, however, the technology for useable, widespread use of BEV's is now with us - and it isn't reliant on external infrastructure in the same way hydrogen is.

BEV is an easy volume sale at the moment, hydrogen isn't. BMW's business plan should reflect this in my humble opinion.

 

[klier]

Due to special & innovative tail gate opening. My understanding is the tail gate only feature a single hinge (in the upper right corner), and it can be rotated when opened to make the access to the boot easier.

Absolutely no way.
The design comes first, then comes the solution. You are making it sound opposite.

I disagree, IMO electric vehicles are an evolutionary sidestep for the car industry

There is too many already to call it a side step. It's a real thing now.
The Scandinavian countries are just a tiny dot of insignificance and Shell is EVERYTHING but green. Shell is one of the worst companies on this planet in fact. Opening a couple of hydrogen stations is for show at most.

 

[KiwiRob]

There is too many already to call it a side step. It's a real thing now.
The Scandinavian countries are just a tiny dot of insignificance and Shell is EVERYTHING but green. Shell is one of the worst companies on this planet in fact. Opening a couple of hydrogen stations is for show at most.

Forgetting Tessa BEV are really only worthy while as city cars, for anything bigger like a family car or an SUV they are lacking, this is where hydrogen will kick BEV arse, big cars, SUVs and commercial vehicles will be better off with hydrogen, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Shell are opening a couple this year and will open a more in the U.K. next year, once big oil gets behind hydrogen and I think they will, they aren't just going to shut up shop, they will fight to stay alive, hydrogen build out will accelerate and that will be the end for pure electric vehicles. The Germans will get in behind hydrogen along with Toyota, Honda and Hyundai, they can't allow Tessa to win.

 

[SCOTT27]

We have to look at it one way. EVs might be for today but Hydrogen Fuel Cell could be for tomorrow.
The stumbling block as they say is infrastructure. But if you look at how investment in EV charging has increased greatly since the last 10 years... expect similar for Hydrogen stations in the next 10 years.

 

[EnI]

Again: BMW i is not meant to be a mass sub-brand. It's a niche sub-brand just like BMW M sub-brand is. While BMW M caters to sports car enthusiasts, BMW i caters to future tech & innovation savvy people. Sure 1st generation of BMW i cars is born electric, but it goes beyond that (beyond powertrain). It goes to the level of experimenting with new materials inside & outside; new body & chassis construction concepts, new power sources, alternative fuel solutions, AI driving assistance systems - incl autonomous driving, IoT solutions ala interconnectivity etc etc. And every new generation will debut a new tech, new innovation, way beyond previous one.

Do not think of BMW i as of BMW's sub-brand for EVs. It's not about that. As I said: this sub-brand is for BMW a true "lab-on-wheels" - introducing some solutions, testing them, experimenting with them ... and some of them will then trickle down to cor BMW Group brands.

Mass-volume (and price competitive) EV offerings from BMW Group will come from core brands: BMW & MINI - an all-electric (BEV) versions of high-volume BMW & MINI models, incl eg X3, 3er Sedan, 2er AT etc. BMW Group are not lagging behind. Everything is under control when it comes to EVs. But the transition will be gradual.

What I'm a bit more worried about is the IT / AI part ... where IT giants are already ahead, and are entering a new level already ... also making ambitious automotive plans. Traditional carmakers will have to ante up the game to stay competitive. Especially now when it seems Google has started to follow Apple steps by developing it's own hardware and making more integral solutions from scratch. Be sure Samsung, LG, Sony etc will have to follow - even with it's own OS & AI assistant etc. The AI UI is the new thing now - therefore the hardware & the OS and all the software (apps) will have to be in perfect cacophony to work well. But there comes a catch ... personal data collection ... so, to make your AI assistant / UI work well, "he" / "she" will have to know a lot of stuff about you ... and that will be achieved by weaving all your rights to personal data protection, so the AI UI will learn about you constantly so he / she will be able to help / assist you. Scary? It will go way beyond current levels of collecting personal data.

But smart cars with AI UI will have to do the same as your AI UI-based smart phones, your smart home etc So, to offer same level of UX (in smart cars) as smart phones & smart homes will offer, carmakers will have to speed up development severely to catch up with IT giants in this particular field. I'm still not sure carmakers are doing enough. IMHO they are still concentrating too much on hardware (too much different models) development & production, and to little to integral AI UI development.

It would be completely lame when you'll be able to communicate & interact efficiently with AI UI of your phone, tablet, TV, PC, HI-Fi system, home theater system, fridge, oven, stove, microwave, dishwasher, washing machine, coffee machine, HVAC system etc. but not of your car. Lame!

So, (even) more focus on the IT field, please, dear carmakers. Sure hardware development is important & crucial ... but not the overdevelopment (filling all the impossible niches with zillions of variants & models). IMHO product line-up simplification will be the most talked issue in the automotive industry in the very near future ... there will either be less variants / models, or they will be much more modular (and there for much more similar to each other - in a "one sausage, different size" manner). Especially urban areas will start to rely on car sharing / ride sharing - therefore fleet sales will become even more important. And fleet customers like to keep it simple when it comes to fleet (as little different models as possible - to make operation costs lower etc). But many if not all carmakers are still stuck in old paradigm ... developing & producing more & more variants & models. Nuts! I'm eager to see who will be the first one to shift to the new paradigm.

 

[Matski]

But there comes a catch ... personal data collection ... so, to make your AI assistant / UI work well, "he" / "she" will have to know a lot of stuff about you ... and that will be achieved by weaving all your rights to personal data protection, so the AI UI will learn about you constantly so he / she will be able to help / assist you.

...

you'll be able to communicate & interact efficiently with AI UI of your phone, tablet, TV, PC, HI-Fi system, home theater system, fridge, oven, stove, microwave, dishwasher, washing machine, coffee machine, HVAC system etc.

...

IMHO product line-up simplification will be the most talked issue in the automotive industry in the very near future

Hmm, I'd liken this kind of progress to an aggressive societal cancer... but then for all I know I might be a luddite.

None of these things are for the good of mankind, they are for the good of corporations that want to blend their unsustainable desires for money and consumption with every individual's life, by selling us **** we don't need.

 

[Deleted member 25]

I hope you are not including all of AI applications as BS we don't need @Matski

 

[Matski]

I hope you are not including all of AI applications as BS we don't need @Matski

Not all but this appears to be a trend that will extend far further in to our lives than it needs to - and for what? As the incremental steps in convenience get smaller, and the incremental steps in consumption to achieve them get bigger, we get closer to only existing to feed the companies that will own our lives.



Wow, I sound serious!

 

[SCOTT27]

Expect to see more of these.

 

[Matski]

Piss poor renders? Okay.

 

[Rainer271]

Expect to see more of these.

Is it the same like in the recent AutoBild?

 

[Zonda]

Forgetting Tessa BEV are really only worthy while as city cars, for anything bigger like a family car or an SUV they are lacking, this is where hydrogen will kick BEV arse, big cars, SUVs and commercial vehicles will be better off with hydrogen, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Once battery prices drop the range of EV will quickly exceed that of ordinary cars. Hydrogen is just a distraction so that dinosaurs can buy time to catch up.
The infrastructure for hydrogen is an easier transition for oil companies and the need for maintenance in cars fits the existing profit model for automakers.

 

[tomazino]

Is it the same like in the recent AutoBild?

Close, but not the same....

 

[Centurion]

Once battery prices drop the range of EV will quickly exceed that of ordinary cars. Hydrogen is just a distraction so that dinosaurs can buy time to catch up.
The infrastructure for hydrogen is an easier transition for oil companies and the need for maintenance in cars fits the existing profit model for automakers.

Don't give Conocophillips and Shell ideas!

Although battery technology needs to improve, we aren't giving it a chance to catchup. You can now buy a car luxury cars with 10 inch displays, digital speedometers, 4 USB sockets for charging phablets, bright ambient lighting, WiFI Hotspot for 8 devices, electro mechanical anti-roll bars, and 1500 Watt sound systems. Our energy needs are increasing at a faster rate than battery technology is improving.

 

[Rainer271]

Close, but not the same....

Thanks, tomazino.

 

[SCOTT27]

Close, but not the same....

What's the other BMW renders like? Is it the 3er?