Headlines BEV Technology

[Big Sam]

This statistic shows the distribution of housing in the Netherlands by type of dwelling, as of 2016. In that year 58.4 percent of the population of the Netherlands lived in detached houses and a further 17.8 percent occupied semi-detached houses.

It can't be much different in 2023.

To be fair to Klier, he never said anything about detached or semi-detached houses. He referred to "driveways" and "private parking", however unlikely a detached house with no parking is.

However, having lived in the Netherlands for the last 24 years, I don't think the figure is remotely close to 90% having no driveway or private parking. It's just another bout of KlierDiarrhea™.

You should double or halve any figure he quotes, depending on whether he's trying to build something up, or play something down.​

 

[kiki voinea]

A friend of mine and his family drove back from their winter vacation six weeks ago. With 2 cars starting at the same time using the same route: 1x BEV, 1x Diesel. BEV travel time 10.5 hours, Diesel 6 hours. Why: Charging station defective, not directly on the route, charging power lower than expected, etc.
He no longer wants a BEV.

I call this bulls**t.

First of all , most apps tell you if the charger works or not.
If you go there knowing that it does not work , it is your fault.

Second , I find it very hard to believe that there where no nearby chargers ( nearby , I mean , near the "faulty" charger ) . If so , it's just a matter of minutes , not hours.

Third , and most important : if you had a 6 hours trip , this means maximum 1 extra charge . Not even my old tech 800hp hungry EV does not do less than 300km per charge , even in winter.

1 extra charge for 4.5 hours difference ? No way...

Either your buddy does not know EVs like at all , either he has a crappy EV.

Keep in mind : NOT all EVs are good.

That is why Tesla is such a great car. Not because of the car itself , but because of the superb charging network ! Plug in , go to the bathroom , take a snack , you're done ! No extra apps. No faulty chargers ( up time is over 99.95% ! )

 

[Sunny]

Here in my country 90% won't be able to charge at home, simply because they do not have a driveway or private parking space.

I think in western EU there's only like 25% max who can do that.......and those people tend to live in more rural areas where there's little to no charging to begin with. In the cities/urban areas??? LOL



Downloadable music? You're behind the times Sunny haha

Haha yes, I even download movies. Legally.

As for apt living and charging, most apartments/condos here I know of come with a dedicated parking spot (and at least in California, by law, you are allowed to install a charger).

And FWIW, when we had to live with rental Model 3 for a month, we didn't have any charger at home. But once a week, while we did groceries, there were tesla chargers there and we would use that. Never felt the need to go out of the way to charge. It just happened, unlike getting gas. Again, not saying, it works for everyone/everywhere, at least yet, and if it doesn't, don't get one.

 

[Matski]

The UK with it's large number of terrace houses without any form off street parking is the exception rather than the norm. Terrace houses fell out of favour after WW1 and were replaced with semi detached housing, new terraces haven't been mass built in generations.

In NZ, Australia, US, Scandinavia and many other countries a single family dwelling on a plot of land is the norm. In Norway most apartments also come with parking, the government has mandated that people living in apartments should have access to charging facilities in those apartments. residents can install their own charger at your parking space or the building will have shared chargers for all the residents.

I know...

Headlines - BEV Technology

Yes, absolutely true. That’s why I call buying and driving a BEV a political choice. PS You‘re right by the way. I‘ll bet 80-90% of the Dutch entrepreneurs who bought a BEV only did it because of the fiscal incentives and the tax penalties for ICE. It's not a political choice in Norway for the...

www.germancarforum.com

Remember, the only thing I'm pushing back against here is this line of thought...

If you want to make EV ownership difficult you can, but it's not, it's easy.

Dwelling stock is what it is, given the stats we both agree on I go back to my original statement, you have to appreciate you're coming from a position where it is easy, that doesn't make it is easy.

That is your serious argument? Cause there were a few evs at the turn of the last century, so they should be on par with what was the defacto mode of personal transportation for last century?

No. As I stated in the following paragraph, it represents the length of the timeline that battery technology has had to develop in the context of automotive applications. Your claim was that of an 'instantaneous' expectation, even taking your assertion of a decade, that is not instantaneous.

and I have better use of my time than engage with such idiocy.

By all means I invite you to not respond anytime you like. You are piss poor at detaching the point being made from the position you (often incorrectly) perceive it to be coming from, and as such I don't much feel like wasting my time defending a position you think I'm coming from because you've decided to incorrectly paraphrase a point being made, multiple times (you may have noticed, sometimes you don't get a serious answer from me.)

I am not anti-change, I am not anti-EV, I am not worried about EVs from a personal perspective. I'm a green voting left leaning liberal with concerns for society around ineffective personal mobility, social mobility, and the impact of poor city planning on society, culture and physical/mental health. I'll leave it to you to decided if I'm being honest about that.

 

[Sunny]

No. As I stated in the following paragraph, it represents the length of the timeline that battery technology has had to develop in the context of automotive applications. Your claim was that of an 'instantaneous' expectation

If you had anything to do with technology, you would know technology doesn't progress linearly with time. There are technological breakthroughs or even social changes that can potentially change the landscape in a field rapidly. Li-ion batteries and the mobile revolution that followed changed the battery landscape, making EVs feasible. So posting about some EV that existed 100 years ago and questioning why EV infrastructure is not the same state as what is there for ICE is absurd.

even taking your assertion of a decade, that is not instantaneous.

It is compared to how long it took before ICE cars to become a feasible mode of transportation. You talk as if there were gas stations as every corner on day 1 or even year 1 or even year 10.

I am not anti-change, I am not anti-EV, I am not worried about EVs from a personal perspective. I'm a green voting left leaning liberal with concerns for society around ineffective personal mobility, social mobility, and the impact of poor city planning on society, culture and physical/mental health. I'll leave it to you to decided if I'm being honest about that.

Then tell why this constant tirade against EVs? I am just applying the very logical duck test here - "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...".
And how the heck does the availability of EVs affect anyone's "physical/mental health"? Outside of irrational fears, of course.

 

[Cashmere]

And how the heck does the availability of EVs affect anyone's "physical/mental health"? Outside of irrational fears, of course.

It means that there's not enough diesels driving around filling up peoples lungs with poisonous toxins, but let's just pretend that is a non issue because I have "concerns for society".

 

[klier]

This statistic shows the distribution of housing in the Netherlands by type of dwelling, as of 2016. In that year 58.4 percent of the population of the Netherlands lived in detached houses and a further 17.8 percent occupied semi-detached houses.

It can't be much different in 2023.

I don't see any statistic.
Almost 45% of all types of houses is a terrace house, and in the cities of the Randstad is not even that, but likely an apartment or something similar.
I don't want to get in an argument about it, and there also is a distinct difference between the so called Randstad where half the population lives, and 'the rest'. It's mostly fine for 'the rest', indeed.

 

[dalab]

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[klier]

Very interesting read. About the upcoming EU Critical Raw Material Act and dependency on Lithium:

EV battery recycling: EU's chance to cut China reliance

 

[kiki voinea]

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This....Is the stupidest clip I have ever seen.

Besides the fact that the message is "Hey look , EVs don't sell" , half of top 10 is MB , and we know why they don't sell....

The rest are mostly dog-s**t. Nissan Leaf ? Really?

What year is it? That car is 7 years old and it is and it was garbage since day 1 !

Jaguar? 6 years old car?? How the heck would you want that car to sell in 2024???

Jesus...

 

[KiwiRob]

You are right. The country is important. He lives in Germany

Then I have a difficult time understanding this. Germany has the most EV chargers in Europe, there are multiple sites with 50 plus outlets as well.

 

[WBarnes]

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[klier]

Then I have a difficult time understanding this. Germany has the most EV chargers in Europe, there are multiple sites with 50 plus outlets as well.

You can have the most chargers in absolute numbers and still have a very crappy infrastructure.

Driving an EV in Germany is a range anxiety roller coaster.

 

[J.E]

Silly plebs... Electric cars are for the rich.

 

[Big Sam]

You can have the most chargers in absolute numbers and still have a very crappy infrastructure.

Driving an EV in Germany is a range anxiety roller coaster.

It really isn't, and if someone thinks it is, they're not doing it correctly. There are some utterly clueless people driving EVs, so it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[KiwiRob]

Silly plebs... Electric cars are for the rich.

The vast majority of Scandinavians aren't rich.

 

[Sunny]

From the Taycan thread. Didn't want to derail the Taycan thread more than it is already.

It’s not looking good for electric cars atm

Is it really? I think data says otherwise.

This is the US BEV and ICEV trends over last few years (I don't have for Europe or China, but I bet it is similar or better for BEVs in those markets).

If I had to conclude sales trend of which type of vehicle was "not looking good" based on this data, it would not be BEVs.

 

[kiki voinea]

I don't have for Europe or China, but I bet it is similar or better for BEVs in those markets).

Looking , at least , at the big cities , EV engagement is way bigger than anywhere in the world .

Don't have data, but just looking at what is available on the streets...

The smog is smaller and not so often

 

[empower77]

From the Taycan thread. Didn't want to derail the Taycan thread more than it is already.



Is it really? I think data says otherwise.

This is the US BEV and ICEV trends over last few years (I don't have for Europe or China, but I bet it is similar or better for BEVs in those markets).

If I had to conclude sales trend of which type of vehicle was "not looking good" based on this data, it would not be BEVs.

Can we break down by brand? I bet Tesla owns this safe by a country mile… honestly I used to see Taycans/ EQSs etc a lot more a couple of years ago than I do now. BMW’s i4 is a rare non Tesla EV that is relatively prevalent. That and the Volvo XC40 recharge(?). The iX was also a bit more prevalent a year ago… I do live on the east coast so I cannot speak for California/ Washington etc but besides Tesla other EVs are not as common here

 

[Sunny]

Can we break down by brand? I bet Tesla owns this safe by a country mile… honestly I used to see Taycans/ EQSs etc a lot more a couple of years ago than I do now. BMW’s i4 is a rare non Tesla EV that is relatively prevalent. That and the Volvo XC40 recharge(?). The iX was also a bit more prevalent a year ago… I do live on the east coast so I cannot speak for California/ Washington etc but besides Tesla other EVs are not as common here

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