Vs Autozeitung: 4-door [E90] M3 vs C63 AMG

[bmer]

Doesn't PP on the C63 come with 19" tires ?

Apparently the 19" wheels aren't part of the Performance Package. This is what it says on the AMG website:

AMG Performance Package, Code P30:

- AMG rear-axle locking differential (asymmetric, mechanical). Under specific load conditions, the locking differential transfers up to 40% of available torque to the wheel with better road grip.

- AMG performance suspension. This enhances performance and lateral dynamics via new springs at the front axle and a new spring rate at both the front and rear axles.

- AMG performance steering wheel in nappa leather with Alcantara side grips.

- AMG high-performance composite brake system with composite brake disc (diameter 360 mm x 36 mm) with 6-piston fixed perforated calliper at front axle, and internally ventilated for optimum weight and enhanced fatigue strength.

The 19" alloys are offered separately:

AMG 19-INCH MULTI-SPOKE LIGHT-ALLOY WHEELS

painted in titanium grey with a high-gloss finish

front: 8.0J x 19 ET 45 with tires 235/35 R 19

rear: 9.0J x 19 ET 54 with tires 255/30 R 19

Code 788

 

[Imhotep Evil]

The M3 should have had the Cups and semi-auto to make things more fair.

 

[Tarek]

Expected result,the C63 is faster and the M3 is better handler,the E90 M3 is faster around a track by a smaller margin than the coupe like we all predicted before.

 

[warot]

Not that many responses for what is a pretty big comparison. Oh well

 

[cawimmer430]

The performance and lap times look pretty close to me. Bottom line: both great cars, both for different folks.

End of story.

 

[Tarek]

The performance and lap times look pretty close to me. Bottom line: both great cars, both for different folks.

End of story.

That's what i said bro,the diff in lap times is smaller than with the coupe.Was wondering about why the C63 is almost 200kg heavier is it coz MB builds it's cars with high strength steel while BMW incorporates more aluminium?

 

[PC Valkyrie]

I think the main reason the laptimes are closer than other tests is because this is the first head to head comparison where the C63 had the Performance package with stiffer suspension and a locking differential. I personally feel it has little to do with the fact the M3 is a sedan this time.

But still, the C63 with PP is over a second slower than the M3 sedan in this particular test. Some people would consider that a "small" margin, while others consider that a relatively "large" margin. When I first joined this forum, I was reminded by JustMe many times that a 1 second difference is not insignfiicant on a short track.

Now that I've tracked my car, I realize that 1 whole second on a short track is not that small of a difference. In one lap, that could mean at least 3-5 car lengths when travelling at speed down a straight. With repeated laps, the gap will be huge. And without the performance package, head to head tests show that the C63 is anywhere between 3-5 seconds slower than the M3 on a short track, which is a HUGE difference no matter how you look at it.

So far, the C63's laptime peformance (relative to the E92/90 M3) appears to be WORSE than the C55's laptime performance (relative to the E46 M3)....ie the gap has increased.

What I'm waiting for now is whether the C63 will shine on the Nurburgring when Sport Auto takes it out as part of their Supertest. This will be the best chance for the high powered C63 to match or even outshine the new M3.

 

[Zafiro]

But still, the C63 with PP is over a second slower than the M3 sedan in this particular test. Some people would consider that a "small" margin, while others consider that a relatively "large" margin. When I first joined this forum, I was reminded by JustMe many times that a 1 second difference is not insignfiicant on a short track.

And without the performance package, head to head tests show that the C63 is anywhere between 3-5 seconds slower than the M3 on a short track, which is a HUGE difference no matter how you look at it.

Exactly, I still have the same opinion and I share it with many "trackers". Those who think this isnt a big difference, lack knowledge. No offense to them but its the truth.

CLK63 Black Series will be in the next issue of Sportauto.

 

[warot]

I think the main reason the laptimes are closer than other tests is because this is the first head to head comparison where the C63 had the Performance package with stiffer suspension and a locking differential. I personally feel it has little to do with the fact the M3 is a sedan this time.

But still, the C63 with PP is over a second slower than the M3 sedan in this particular test. Some people would consider that a "small" margin, while others consider that a relatively "large" margin. When I first joined this forum, I was reminded by JustMe many times that a 1 second difference is not insignfiicant on a short track.

Now that I've tracked my car, I realize that 1 whole second on a short track is not that small of a difference. In one lap, that could mean at least 3-5 car lengths when travelling at speed down a straight. With repeated laps, the gap will be huge. And without the performance package, head to head tests show that the C63 is anywhere between 3-5 seconds slower than the M3 on a short track, which is a HUGE difference no matter how you look at it.

So far, the C63's laptime peformance (relative to the E92/90 M3) appears to be WORSE than the C55's laptime performance (relative to the E46 M3)....ie the gap has increased.

What I'm waiting for now is whether the C63 will shine on the Nurburgring when Sport Auto takes it out as part of their Supertest. This will be the best chance for the high powered C63 to match or even outshine the new M3.

With that much power going to the rear wheels, it's a sin not to have LSD standard. Even Infiniti G35's have them.

A one second gap to me is not that big of a deal. Burn me if you will for this, but most really serious enthusiast will not go for a C63 as a track car. There are many other options.... the C63 is still a great fast cruiser although the comfort has suffered a bit (which I guess totally contradicts my point).

Were the gaps between the C55 and M3 1 seconds? If not, then it's an improvement

 

[Mr Robert]

Were the gaps between the C55 and M3 1 seconds? If not, then it's an improvement

Hard to tell if there is an improvement since the E46 M3 never came as a 4-door.. well, on a much more important matter, the C63 seems to have improved a lot compared to the C55 when it comes to driver involvement and enjoyment.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

With that much power going to the rear wheels, it's a sin not to have LSD standard. Even Infiniti G35's have them.

A one second gap to me is not that big of a deal. Burn me if you will for this, but most really serious enthusiast will not go for a C63 as a track car. There are many other options.... the C63 is still a great fast cruiser although the comfort has suffered a bit (which I guess totally contradicts my point).

Were the gaps between the C55 and M3 1 seconds? If not, then it's an improvement

The E46 M3 and C55 were tested head to head (same day, same drivers) on a track only twice, as far as I know, so these are the best data that I know of.

1) Evo magazine 1.8 mile Bedford Autodrome: 1.29,8 minutes vs 1.30,1 minutes (0.3 second differece)

2) Cars in Action magazine (in S. Africa): 2.0 km Zwartkops Raceway (very short and very tight): 1.17,8 minutes vs 1.18,0 minutes (0.2 second difference)

If you look at the Sport Auto Supertests where the same pro driver (Mr. HVS) drove the cars, but on different days:
Nurburgring: 8.22 minutes vs 8.22 minutes (0 difference)
Hockenheim: 1.17,6 minutes vs 1.18,6 minutes (1 second difference)

Note that the fastest E46 M3 time on Hockeheim (1.16,3 minutes) achieved by Sport Auto was not conducted as part of a Supertest, so it was a different driver, so I don't really consider that as much of a good comparsion to the time achieved by the Supertest's Mr. HVS.

Not many people appreciate the fact that the C55 could hang with a E46 M3 on a twisty track despite no LSD, thinner tires, and with better ride comfort on everyday roads. The problem was the C55's strength as a good road car was its undoing when compared to the involving and rewarding driving experience the raw M3 delivered. The C55 was MB/AMG's best handling car with their "old forumla". Now they're trying a more sport oriented forumula with better steering feel, much tighter suspension, more involving drive with the C63. The problem is it hasn't translated yet into a good match for the E92/90 M3's pace around a track, despite its new found "rawness".

Regardless, track times matter to those who track their cars and those who want some objective measurement of how fast the car can go when pushed on a twisty course. They mean little on the streets, which is why the C63 still will likely be the better performer on everyday streets.

 

[Mr Robert]

The E46 M3 and C55 were tested head to head (same day, same drivers) on a track only twice...

But for the sake of comparison the times for the E92 should be used. That way we can tell if there has been any change. I agree that 4-door vs 4-door is the best comparison to judge todays cars but to compare changes from different generations we need to use the E92.

 

[ACE]

One thing that very few forum posters take into consideration is that in a real race (not against the clock) the cars start together. The C63 will be in front at the first corner making it a lot harder for the M3 win a real race even with it's marginal (empty track) superiority.

I still prefer the M3 though!

 

[coolraoul]

The C55 was very vary fast, but felt slower than it was and was not involving enough. understated bodykit too.
The C63 is very very fast, but feels even faster than it is, and it very very involving... and the bodykit is more aggressive.

It's another way of seeing things. AMG tries to be more like M, but with even more rawness.

In fact they are back to the glory of older AMGs, with aggressive kit, insane motor...raw, brutish and bad boy. I love it.

 

[Sunny]

One thing that very few forum posters take into consideration is that in a real race (not against the clock) the cars start together. The C63 will be in front at the first corner making it a lot harder for the M3 win a real race even with it's marginal (empty track) superiority.

I still prefer the M3 though!

No, the 5th gear did exactly that, a real race. C63 got the jump at the start and M3 overtook C63 in the first turn and it was . Video should be around somewhere.

 

[cawimmer430]

That's what i said bro,the diff in lap times is smaller than with the coupe.Was wondering about why the C63 is almost 200kg heavier is it coz MB builds it's cars with high strength steel while BMW incorporates more aluminium?

Generally MB's are overweight. I think the C63 AMG might have more luxury features onboard, hence the weight difference.

 

[PanterroR]

No, the 5th gear did exactly that, a real race. C63 got the jump at the start and M3 overtook C63 in the first turn and it was . Video should be around somewhere.

I was just about to say the same thing.

Here's the video:

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[Sunny]

All that torque in C63 needs stronger (and heavier) components to handle it. Also M3 uses Aluminum for most of the suspension components, not sure about what C63 uses.

 

[tvfan84]

Funny thing is that the C63's engine is acutally lighter than the M3's engine. (199kg vs 202kg)

If we were to compare weight of the whole car, say a E90 M3 with MDCT to a C63 it's only a difference of 30kg (1700 kg to 1730 kg) according to EU specs. Add a moonroof to the E90 and it's safe to say it's about the same weight as a C63. So the C63 is not as heavy compared to the competition as some might think.

However, the M3 has better weight distribution & suspension set up thus giving it a slight edge in the handling department. I look forward to see some more apples to apples comparisons in the future.

 

[merve_extreme]

No, the 5th gear did exactly that, a real race. C63 got the jump at the start and M3 overtook C63 in the first turn and it was . Video should be around somewhere.

do you really think they were racing hard against each other?
It's just a TV show,they were doing that just for entertainment.