Anyone else affected by London Riots?

[EnI]

The problem is, many Western people (still or again?) see the state as their enemy. (Democratic) state is here to protect us all. At least it should ... Imagine no states. No, thanks.

And yes - (some) media have quite a crucial role here: many times mixing the state with current political elite. It's like they are trying to say "political elite = state", which of course is a nonsense.

Also I find it very distracting when rioters demolishing PRIVATE property. What has that to do with riots against political elite? Absolutely nothing! That's pure terrorism: spreading terror among private citizens by demolishing, damaging private property, looting, robbering etc etc. Terrorism. Nothing else.

 

[Giannis]

The problem is, many Western people (still or again?) see the state as their enemy. (Democratic) state is here to protect us all. At least it should ... Imagine no states. No, thanks.

True. The state exists to help, protect and serve its citizens, because by definition, state = citizens. Sadly, the political and economical elite have take control of the state, to such an extend that the citizens are dissatisfied with the current level of market growth, healthcare, education, justice, etc. This leads to social dissorder. At least it did in France and Greece a few years back.

The biggest problem, though, is that the group that is more likely to go violent in the streets is the youths. And that's a huge social problem.

Also I find it very distracting when rioters demolishing PRIVATE property. What has that to do with riots against political elite? Absolutely nothing! That's pure terrorism: spreading terror among private citizens by demolishing, damaging private property, looting, robbering etc etc. Terrorism. Nothing else.

Terrorism... For some reason I don't like this word, but anyway.

What is certain out of such situations, is that riots and violence make it much easier for the "elite" to enforce a police state, instead of a social and justice state...

 

[Gene]

Well they are going to be introducing 16,000 police officers to the streets tonight. Up from 6,000 from last night. Hopefully that'll help to protect the innocent people around London. Not too sure what they plan to do with the other cities.

It's too late for the people who's houses and properties have been destroyed.

Youths these days need to get a life. Seriously. Apparently youngest person that has been arrested was 11 years old.

 

[LaArtist]

Alot of talk here about bullets..and military..and kill..and that the kids should get a life..

If you can NOT give jobs to the young folks.. and you close down their centers.. what do they do? They hang out on the streets..
They watch commercials.. they look at music videos.. they also want nice things.. but their economy ( parents, cause they don't have any of their own) is so piss poor that even the thought of treating themselves is to expensive..

What do these people do then? they sit around and grow more hate inside them..and finally it bursts..
The younger ones in a area always look up to the elder ones.. and when the elder ones don't have any occupation other than messing around..the young ones get caught up in that shit.. and it gets so deep in them... that even if you create jobs for them..or programs they don't give a rats ass.. cause the other life is the only life they know!!!

In the end ile say this..

In idle hands rests the devil.. and there are plenty of idle hands around amongst the youth of this world, no matter which country.

And the might of a mob is something these fat politicians should be aware off.. in history mobs has gotten the decision makers hanged, jailed and beaten to death..

PS
I do not think this is right in any way though, hard working ppl are loosing their shops..and homes are getting destroyed.. its sad and wrong..
But that's kind of the definition of a riot

 

[Mr Robert]

Yes, riots are powerful things - when they represent the will of the general population. When they represent themselves, not much will happen in terms of hanging decision makers.

 

[LaArtist]

^It can very fast turn into the will of the general population..if something goes wrong

Riots in any form or fashion..should be avoided by those who sit on the top and mistreat ppl

 

[EnI]

So, what's the solution? More state regulated economy? Socialism?

Since it's clear jobs are moving to China, India, Brazil etc. The labor force is too high in the West. Obviously we want high wages (even for crappy jobs) to live well. The times of prosperous Western (lower-)middle class are over. Forever. Decline of the West.

But it's clear now capitalism (again) strayed to much away from the people, from the middle class. It's too much "Wall Street" (financial sector) than "Main Street" (real sector). Slowly but persistently people are having enough of that BS. There will be even greater riots in the future.

Also the morale of the people is down - due to fact the political elite is corrupted, and serves the capital interests (global megacorporations) instead their own citizens.

 

[Azazel]

In your, very interesting debate you are all missing one, somehow important fact. Descent of those rioters. Those (huge majority) are immigrants from Africa. Now, I know that in those times totally dominated by political correctness its very risky to even say things like that and if you do you will be probably trashed, doomed and forced to deny your own words on that matter. I know that its a car forum, thats also why I am here-to discuss cars, but if such thread started I thought of joining a debate and posting such fact, which most of posters here overlook, or are too afraid to admit.

 

[Monster]

Which most of posters here overlook, or are too afraid to admit.

Hello and welcome to the forum Azazel, most members here are trying to discuss this issue without going over the boundaries of the forum rules, and risk having this entire thread shut down, you can have a look at the rules here

http://www.germancarforum.com/admin/announcement-please-read-before-posting-forum-rules.html

I have no objection against you posting your opinion, the moderators here are all in favor of open, intelligent and well articulated discussions, it is a refreshing change and it gives us a chance to learn a bit more about each other, however we are all trying to avoid opening an uncontainable can of worms here, I hope you will understand.

 

[LaArtist]

So, what's the solution? More state regulated economy? Socialism?

Since it's clear jobs are moving to China, India, Brazil etc. The labor force is too high in the West. Obviously we want high wages (even for crappy jobs) to live well. The times of prosperous Western (lower-)middle class are over. Forever. Decline of the West.

But it's clear now capitalism (again) strayed to much away from the people, from the middle class. It's too much "Wall Street" (financial sector) than "Main Street" (real sector). Slowly but persistently people are having enough of that BS. There will be even greater riots in the future.

Also the morale of the people is down - due to fact the political elite is corrupted, and serves the capital interests (global megacorporations) instead their own citizens.

One would now think that a huge communist power like soviet or china is needed to weigh down the capitalists..to make some kind of balance..
The middle class is getting raped.. and that's the majority.. the day they get enough of this BS..that's the day we will see a REAL riot..this aint nothing!!!..

I think the time for US and their all eating polluting..fat ass strategy of life which they have infected the rest of the world with.. through their media has come to a stop.
They dont even have money to believe in that shit themselves anymore.. let alone convince the world.

Check this out..puts things into perspective

US debt visualized: Stacked in 100 dollar bills

 

[Gene]

Everyone is going in depth into the psychology of these rioters, about what is going through their minds, why they are doing this and that it really is the governments faults.

Being a person on the ground and having encountered a lot of these rioters first hand (I was one minute behind a group of 30-40 rioters when I was leaving the gym yesterday), these dipshits are youths about 11-18 years old. Lets be honest here, kids this age and with their low intelligence don't know what they are doing, whats going on in current affairs and political agendas. In fact there is a clip from BBC from two rioting girls and they say: "We destroying the shops because it is the rich people that own the shops". I mean how stupid, naive and retarded is that comment?

Why are these kids doing what they are doing? Because they have nothing else to do (it's school holidays), they lack intelligence and morals and they think it is fun for some apparent reason it is fun.

Who do I blame? I blame the kids and I blame the parents. I'm not against heavy handed policing right now - I've seen people first hand hurting from the damage the rioters have called. Watch this video and tell me if you think these kids would have a high enough intelligence to even say the word "politics", let alone have a political agenda.

London Riots - Scum steal from injured boy.

 

[EnI]

What will happen with this youth? A special training will be needed. For the whole generation. That's not some sporadic incident caused by a few. Stupid kids think that's freedom - that they can do whatever they want? Loot, demolish etc? Even kill? Definitely that's coming. Primal animal nature of a human. Hard to believe, but what we have (relatively prosperous & peaceful civilization) it's a fragile thing! It's based on self-restriction. When such protection fails ...

 

[LaArtist]

^True they dont know shit these kids.. but they are put into this mentality by their elders..who dont have any occupations..and do shit for money..
And they themselfs arent that well off..so when they get the chance..it becomes a mix of group pressure, being off from school, poverty.. everything..
Its hard to pin point one thing

found this video while looking at the one Gene posted

Damn fools nearly got themselves some B&O

 

[EnI]

Watching the news ... The damage seems to be HUGE already. OMG!

 

[Gene]

That video is close to where I live in Ealing.

I'm hearing on BBC that the people that have been arrested are being charged in the magistrates courts but aren't being sentenced. Instead they are being deferred for sentencing in the high court. Usually the magistrates courts can only sentence for up to 6 months, whereas the high court can sentence for up to 10 years for the same offence.

Lock them up and give em nothing. They're youths that are under 20 years of age. The rest of their lives and careers are going to be screwed due to this sentencing. I should feel bad about that, but I just don't. They chose their path by ruining someone else's life.

 

[klier]

The worst part of all this is that tomorrow was supposed to be the big football match England-Holland. Now the Brits cancelled it because they need all the police they can get, so there's none for the match.

Such a shame, because if Holland would have won (no problem), we would have been NUMBER 1 on the FIFA world ranking. Never happened before, and now we will have to wait!!


...or isn't that the worst part???

 

[K-A]

Some of this "sympathizing" with why these idiots are doing what their doing is exactly what's wrong with society's ability to progress. The blaming of Governments in why these kids are destroying innocent peoples lives is using the exact same mentality these rioters are using when destroying innocent peoples lives.

It's not my problem as to why someone's got it bad. I empathize with them, AS LONG as they don't blame it on or take it out on me. As soon as they do, they're a menace to prospering and positive society, and should be dealt with by way of eliminating them from the way of said society. Life is too short, and I, nor my loved ones, nor anyone like me, or you, should not have their lives/well being put in jeopardy by someone else's madness.

 

[klier]

K-A, I agree with what you said, but sorry for going completely off topic by saying you badly need a Euro spec front bumper.....

 

[SCOTT27]

Firstly , I hope our London friends @ GCF are safe.

I was in London at the last riot and was with my wife when two immigrant black girls (they were not English) came up to us with the intent to rob us. Of course we resorted to German saying we did not understand , even though we understood the language with the kitchen knife in here hand. The police were approaching so they left quickly , but my wife bounced her bottle of Evian water off her back as she ran. They have decided to plead not guilty, even though the evidence against them is overwhelming. I explained to the Police that I will not tolerate inaction on this because they need to understand that their behaviour is not just unacceptable to me and my wife, but unacceptable to the society they are part of. If they are not stopped now, they won’t be stopped. It is my duty to people I have never met to make sure they do not attack them by forcing them to take the consequences of their actions.

On a lighter note. I seen in some video footage from London that an advancing horde were running towards and at the rear was a billboard for the "Rise of the Planet Of the apes" film. You just could not make it up.

 

[Cashmere]

This doesnt look good. Im supposed to be in London next week (1 week vacation) and seeing this kind of stuff on TV is sad.

The irony is that something similar happened in Vancouver a few months ago which was equally shocking. These 2 incidents show that lunacy is not limited to the third world and proves that even in world class metropolitan cities, if there is no higher authority to maintain order (police), the human race is prone to self destruct.

A friend of mine wrote this on FB and I think it does sum up the problem to a large extent:

If unemployment was the only or even if it was the most important factor contributing to this sort of behaviour, then 1929 would have produced the most violent period ever, during the Great Depression. But, it was not the case. So, what has changed? Morality, is what has changed. We now live in a "no fault" society. Blame our parents, blame the government, blame the social environment, apartheid, BUT NEVER SELF! We need to take responsibility for our deeds and our actions but that will not happen with an attitude of entitlement