GT (C192) AMG GT Track Sport

[leylandi]

The sirens must be sounding in Munich.

 

[klier]

The sirens must be sounding in Munich.

I'm getting ready for the daily Bingo card.
Today it's the retard Bingo. Should be filled fairly quickly. Tomorrow will be the annoying little insect Bingo, and that'll be an easy one too.

Good times.

 

[leylandi]

I can guess where you got these cards from.

 

[Matski]

The sirens must be sounding in Munich.

They are sounding at the Stephane Ratel Organisation - with top level concerns that manufacturers such as Toyota and Mercedes building cars specifically for GT3 racing will ultimately cause spiraling costs and the death of the category, much like it did with FIA GT and GT1 old GT2. GT3 was born and flourished as a solution to this problem, now it's going the same way.

Best case scenario is that BoP keeps a level playing field, but a lot of people are predicting it won't.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

They are sounding at the Stephane Ratel Organisation - with top level concerns that manufacturers such as Toyota and Mercedes building cars specifically for GT3 racing will ultimately cause spiraling costs and the death of the category, much like it did with FIA GT and GT1 old GT2. GT3 was born and flourished as a solution to this problem, now it's going the same way.

Best case scenario is that BoP keeps a level playing field, but a lot of people are predicting it won't.

If they really want a better mix of competitiveness, increase the homologation volumes needed for GT3 racecars and reduce the amount of modification that can be made between the street car and the racecar.

The question is, will that just kill of GT3 racing entirely, or will we get a new breed of lightweight sporty/sports cars again?

 

[Fastpaddy]

They are sounding at the Stephane Ratel Organisation - with top level concerns that manufacturers such as Toyota and Mercedes building cars specifically for GT3 racing will ultimately cause spiraling costs and the death of the category, much like it did with FIA GT and GT1 old GT2. GT3 was born and flourished as a solution to this problem, now it's going the same way.

Best case scenario is that BoP keeps a level playing field, but a lot of people are predicting it won't.

Nah.

Because its still a privateer car and competition. And its still heavily road car based.

That lexus road version coming in around 150k

The benz will be 200k

The temarario was developed with gt3 in mind and well thats just lambo priced and the 296 was designed and built with GT3 racing at the top of the agenda also.

And then Theres the mustang.

If anything the BMW GT3 car is more heavily bespoke away from the production car than any of the others just mentioned.

And purchase cost has been stable around the 500k mark new

 

[KiwiRob]

That makes your point even more ridiculous since the only thing the AMG has seen this season is the rear of the M4 GT3.

2025 Standings

• 1
  Team WRT
  BMW M4 GT3
• 2
  M-AMG Team MANN-FILTER
  Mercedes-AMG GT3 EVO
• 3
  Rutronik Racing
  Porsche 911 GT3 R

Whilst you guys are arguing over the M3 and AMG GT3 the Audi R8 LMS has been the most successful of all the GT3 cars raced to date. More wins and more championships than any other chassis.

 

[Matski]

If they really want a better mix of competitiveness, increase the homologation volumes needed for GT3 racecars and reduce the amount of modification that can be made between the street car and the racecar.

The amount of modification between the street car and the race car is where the issue has arisen from. More leniency or wavers are given to cars that need them (generally) in order to reach a baseline level for GT3. I think this is good idea to promote a diverse field which is vital for a successful series - people don't buy tickets to watch one make races, they're only ever support events/classes. However, they've now permitted the same level of leniency across the board, and that seems to have opened the window for developing cars as GT3 first, road car second - which is fine for the manufacturers that can justify that extra expense.

Nah.

Because its still a privateer car and competition. And its still heavily road car based.

That lexus road version coming in around 150k

The benz will be 200k

The temarario was developed with gt3 in mind and well thats just lambo priced and the 296 was designed and built with GT3 racing at the top of the agenda also.

And then Theres the mustang.

If anything the BMW GT3 car is more heavily bespoke away from the production car than any of the others just mentioned.

And purchase cost has been stable around the 500k mark new

None of that addresses Stephane Ratel's concerns that the cost of developing a standalone GT3 car in order to be competitive will dissuade manufacturers from joining in... and if that's what Ratel thinks, it's probably a reasonable concern. It's nothing to do with the cost of the road car, it's not about whether the road car was developed with GT3 in mind, most of them were. It's about the cost to the manufacturer of a new vehicle program dedicated first and foremost to developing a GT3 car.

Personally I agree with him, and at this point it's happened enough times to be regarded as inevitable. GT, GT1, Super Touring, Super2000, Class One (in Europe at least), all essentially disappeared because of the ever increasing cost of competitive participation for manufacturers. They were mostly all superceeded by more financially accessible categories.

Whilst you guys are arguing over the M3 and AMG GT3 the Audi R8 LMS has been the most successful of all the GT3 cars raced to date. More wins and more championships than any other chassis.

Not disputing, but I'd like to see the source.

 

[Revvd]

Let me just bring up this clip of Hans Reiter talking about this matter.

At the time the cars were more close to the street cars. This was the idea from Stefan Ratell from the beginning. Reiter engineering was one of the six founders of GT3. We all agreed to take street cars, minimum modifications, and have fun.

And we had very little rules. They were, I think, six pages. Now the rules are more than 100 pages.
And the cars do not really look like the original car anymore. You still can identify a Gallardo, you still can identify the Camaro very well.

In GT3 now, we are overshooting again. In racing we love to repeat mistakes.

 

[Fastpaddy]

Whilst you guys are arguing over the M3 and AMG GT3 the Audi R8 LMS has been the most successful of all the GT3 cars raced to date. More wins and more championships than any other chassis.

Its true, but you need to delve into the details.

The Audi features more teams with their cars. More teams, more championship entries = more wins.

So if we strip away small customer teams. Bronze/Pro-am
Lower tier grids and championships.

And we only include factory and pro drivers, the AMG GT3 is the more successful car.

On a entry to win ratio its also more successful.

The r8 is great car though and a one lap monster. Over a stint however the Benz is also tough. And the m4 is currently one of the most competitive. The benz is one of the oldest, the bmw with the evo pack one of the newest.

And ultimately the truth is more nuanced. Because of the stupid BOP system, based on the regulators they can neuter a certain car on a certain track that would have otherwise dominated.

In anycase, the 296 is currently and arguably the benchmark even though the records don’t show it.

Im excited for lexus and mercedes to replace their dinosaurs

 

[Fastpaddy]

The amount of modification between the street car and the race car is where the issue has arisen from. More leniency or wavers are given to cars that need them (generally) in order to reach a baseline level for GT3. I think this is good idea to promote a diverse field which is vital for a successful series - people don't buy tickets to watch one make races, they're only ever support events/classes. However, they've now permitted the same level of leniency across the board, and that seems to have opened the window for developing cars as GT3 first, road car second - which is fine for the manufacturers that can justify that extra expense.



None of that addresses Stephane Ratel's concerns that the cost of developing a standalone GT3 car in order to be competitive will dissuade manufacturers from joining in... and if that's what Ratel thinks, it's probably a reasonable concern. It's nothing to do with the cost of the road car, it's not about whether the road car was developed with GT3 in mind, most of them were. It's about the cost to the manufacturer of a new vehicle program dedicated first and foremost to developing a GT3 car.

Personally I agree with him, and at this point it's happened enough times to be regarded as inevitable. GT, GT1, Super Touring, Super2000, Class One (in Europe at least), all essentially disappeared because of the ever increasing cost of competitive participation for manufacturers. They were mostly all superceeded by more financially accessible categories.



Not disputing, but I'd like to see the source.

Now I shall flip the narrative, because the AMG GT3 customer boss, has said on record how GT3 racing brings a positive balance to their companies financials in the volume of GT3 cars they have sold, and they plan to grow on that positive profit by having more customer teams in the future.

Audi I suspect has also made a killing for the hundreds of r8 gt3 cars they have sold, and then the subsequent 2 aero upgrade packages they pushed out.

 

[Matski]

Now I shall flip the narrative, because the AMG GT3 customer boss, has said on record how GT3 racing brings a positive balance to their companies financials in the volume of GT3 cars they have sold, and they plan to grow on that positive profit by having more customer teams in the future.

The AMG GT3 customer boss has been selling race cars based on volume production models, also potentially one of the most prolific cars along with the Audi... and he works for a manufacturer that generates enough profits from selling normal cars and rep-mobiles at premium prices, to cover it.

And again, none of this negates the idea that developing a stand alone model will drive up the cost of (competitive) participation.

I know you take AMG criticisms personally, so for the record, I'm not blaming Mercedes, or Toyota, for this... Getting FIA GT3 into Le Mans was the goal, and this has been the outcome. I'm sure the cars will be great, but history dictates that this is probably bad for the category... which brings me on to this...

And ultimately the truth is more nuanced. Because of the stupid BOP system, based on the regulators they can neuter a certain car on a certain track that would have otherwise dominated.

You do not give a single f#ck about GT3 (or similar) unless it allows you to flex on owning your GT. You want your brand to be able to dominate so you can bask in reflected glory. Domination is antithetical to the existence of most motorsport, GT racing included. It kills interest, it kills categories, it kills manufacturer involvement... it literally kills the sport - that's why BoP, equalisation or Spec series exist in most forms of motorsport - it prevents dominance.

Domination is THE last thing anyone who's into motorsport should want. Yeah, I'm a BMW fan - but I don't want them to dominate. If every championship was won by 1 point it would be immeasurably better than a dominating 50 points. If every race was down to a tenth, rather than tens of seconds, that would be epic. I'm so f#cking tired of hearing about how boring motorsport is because the average person only watches F1 where dominance is frequent and the outcomes are predictable.

 

[Fastpaddy]

The AMG GT3 customer boss has been selling race cars based on volume production models, also potentially one of the most prolific cars along with the Audi... and he works for a manufacturer that generates enough profits from selling normal cars and rep-mobiles at premium prices, to cover it.

And again, none of this negates the idea that developing a stand alone model will drive up the cost of (competitive) participation.

I know you take AMG criticisms personally, so for the record, I'm not blaming Mercedes, or Toyota, for this... Getting FIA GT3 into Le Mans was the goal, and this has been the outcome. I'm sure the cars will be great, but history dictates that this is probably bad for the category... which brings me on to this...



You do not give a single f#ck about GT3 (or similar) unless it allows you to flex on owning your GT. You want your brand to be able to dominate so you can bask in reflected glory. Domination is antithetical to the existence of most motorsport, GT racing included. It kills interest, it kills categories, it kills manufacturer involvement... it literally kills the sport - that's why BoP, equalisation or Spec series exist in most forms of motorsport - it prevents dominance.

Domination is THE last thing anyone who's into motorsport should want. Yeah, I'm a BMW fan - but I don't want them to dominate. If every championship was won by 1 point it would be immeasurably better than a dominating 50 points. If every race was down to a tenth, rather than tens of seconds, that would be epic. I'm so f#cking tired of hearing about how boring motorsport is because the average person only watches F1 where dominance is frequent and the outcomes are predictable.

Again your narrative.

The AMG boss literally said, AMG motorsport, as a division, makes a good profit from selling race cars.

Just because the road car division makes alot of money doesnt mean the racing division would be allowed to survive as a major loss making entity. Infact, if the road car division losses money, but the racing division makes profit, the racing side will be in good stead to survive and corporate cost saving.

Ferrari, and Lamborghini, designed their 296 and temerario alongside the GT3 racing version, and made design decisions based on GT3 performance requirements.

Mercedes meanwhile say they want their next sportscar to be more extreme, are they thinking because they want to dominate on the GT3 race series, or they want to dominate the likes of the Nurburgring lap times and show porsche 2 fingers again.

Neither of us know their motivation. What is clear, manufacturers try to surpass their previous offerings, and that is normal human behaviour.

As for lexus, you accuse them of the same thing as mercedes, again, your narrative.
We do not actually know if GT3 racing alone is what drives them. Rumour has it, they are still embarrassed of the LFA’s on track performance, and this is what is their motivation, to offer people a road car, that is serious in performance on a track day, affordable for what it is, bring supercars to more people and simultaneously make a better motorsport product.

To compare it to the previous spaceframe GT1 and lmp1 monsters is wrong. Its nowhere near the same. The current crop of GT3’s still look like the roadcars, still share engine architecture with their road versions too.

LOL again at your own perceived bias.

Dont tell me what I care and do not care about in racing.

I dont like BOP.
Its artificial, it has ruined races, it has made some teams have 0 chance of competing for the win because of badly implemented BOP.

And BOP is also the reason why car manufacturers are now LEAVING wec hypercars and why mercedes will not even join.

Its a now its your turn to win championship, and its BS, and car manufacturers are realising in all intents and purposes its flawed.

No I want the best team to win, add ballast and leave it at that, but to dictate suspension settings, fuel tank size, boost level, boost at what rpm, wing angles, weight, engine restrictors, its stupid. And its never equal.

Spec series always die, apart from the yank versions, and the best racing in the history of motorsport has never been spec or BoP’d.

F1’s way of doing it is actually better, sliding scale of development allowance based on previous performance. Not track by track fiddling to give us a artificial show.

And finally I want ferrari to beat mercedes, but ultimately the best to win..

I dont wanna turn up at spa or lemans and know that X Y Z has 0 chance of competing because they were dealt a raw hand because of BOP

 

[Jonathan19]

Evolution takes shape. Form is emerging.

Mercedes-AMG on Instagram: "Evolution takes shape. Form is emerging. #ChosenOnes"

124 likes, 1 comments - mercedesamg on March 20, 2026: "Evolution takes shape. Form is emerging. #ChosenOnes".

www.instagram.com

 

[Fastpaddy]

Eurgh they need to hurry up and release it I need it in my life. Wasnt planning on another benz but from the way they are talking I need it in my life.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I wonder if they're gonna unveil it with Max...