AMG GT Track Sport

[Jonathan19]

The last AMG GT3 was a NA V8 Masterpiece the Track Sport will not be NA but i hope next GT3 will be.

Mercedes-AMG GT3 Edition 130Y Motorsport

- 730 Nm | 500 kW
- AMG 6.3-litre V8 naturally aspirated engine without air restrictor (6,208 cm³)
- Sequential AMG six-speed competition gearbox

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/mercedes-amg-gt3-edition-130y-motorsport

 

[Fastpaddy]

I suppose it might depend on how the car is made. Is it a complete carbon tub? Or is a modular composite arch with aluminium and carbon?
I think they're still finalising the specs, so we'll see.

A 1500kg AMG with 700+hp would be staggering in GT2.

I wonder what the GT3 spec is going to be. They're retiring the M159 6.2 V8. Most GT3 engines seem to be NA - I don't know if that's a requirement. Would they make a high-revving naturally aspirated version of their new V8?

The existing amg GT2 is 700hp and 1400kg so your wish is already out there! You can drive it on assetto corsa competizione

 

[Swissbob]

I wonder what the GT3 spec is going to be. They're retiring the M159 6.2 V8. Most GT3 engines seem to be NA - I don't know if that's a requirement. Would they make a high-revving naturally aspirated version of their new V8?

With the big changes in the Mercedes Benz marketing , all bets are off.

Eventually even a high revving NA V8 sounds possible.

Who would have thought 6 years ago, that corvette would build such a lineup.

 

[Revvd]

25 in 2 years I think.

Wouldn't be the first time a fan favourite homologation car was done dirty.

I believe that number refers to race cars. It's there so that even smaller customer teams get to have access to race cars, not just factory teams.

IIRC the requirement for homologated road cars is much higher. Like 300 or so.

If it was 25, Glickenhaus would try really hard to homologate 003 for GT3

 

[klier]

It's not.

Most are, in fact, not. Huracan is gone too, Temerario has a TT V8
But that clearly doesn't change the fact that an NA engine of course is the best.

I think there needs to be a street version for homologation purposes.

Absolutely not. Just look at the BMW M4 GT3 (or Ford Mustang, where the GTD is only now arriving), which has close to zero resemblance with the road car. Homologation these days isn't like the M3 GTR or CLK DTM.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Most are, in fact, not. Huracan is gone too, Temerario has a TT V8
But that clearly doesn't change the fact that an NA engine of course is the best.



Absolutely not. Just look at the BMW M4 GT3 (or Ford Mustang, where the GTD is only now arriving), which has close to zero resemblance with the road car. Homologation these days isn't like the M3 GTR or CLK DTM.

Be that as it may, surely it still needs to use the same fundamental chassis, no?
So if this is a front-mid engined transaxle sports car, the C192 won't qualify as the basis of homologation.

The silhouette of this car under the cover is much more like the C190 than the C192. I assume they're making a road going version of it, like they did the GTR, but in lesser volume.

 

[Rolf]

The existing amg GT2 is 700hp and 1400kg so your wish is already out there! You can drive it on assetto corsa competizione

It surprisingly is very lightweight at only 1275kg unladen.

 

[klier]

Be that as it may, surely it still needs to use the same fundamental chassis, no?
So if this is a front-mid engined transaxle sports car, the C192 won't qualify as the basis of homologation.

It surely does. The BMW M4 GT3 is a front mid engine with transaxle too. I guess it needs the same fundamental chassis, but that's not saying much.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

It surely does. The BMW M4 GT3 is a front mid engine with transaxle too. I guess it needs the same fundamental chassis, but that's not saying much.

I mean they could use a heavily modified MSA to make the GT TS, but if they're making a carbon tub, that would be a completely different chassis to the C192, surely.

Well I dunno, we'll see.

 

[klier]

Yeah we'll see. It's exciting either way.

 

[Fastpaddy]

It surely does. The BMW M4 GT3 is a front mid engine with transaxle too. I guess it needs the same fundamental chassis, but that's not saying much.

The bmw m4 gt3 is not front mid engined.

Its transaxle yes, but the rest is completely untrue

 

[Fastpaddy]

Be that as it may, surely it still needs to use the same fundamental chassis, no?
So if this is a front-mid engined transaxle sports car, the C192 won't qualify as the basis of homologation.

The silhouette of this car under the cover is much more like the C190 than the C192. I assume they're making a road going version of it, like they did the GTR, but in lesser volume.

Klier doesnt know what hes talking about.

the entire reason why mercedes is making a new car is because the existing is unsuitable for gt3 racing.

Lexus engineers are on record stating their current gt3 car is flawed and compromised, and are developing a new gt3 car alongside a roadcar, utilising a front mid engined setup like the Amg gtr for the same reason.

The 296 ferrari was designed from the outset with gt3 racing in mind.

The homologation rules dont allow you to take your road going vehicle and doing whatever you want to it. You can push the engine further back and lower, but not completely change the layout. And if you look at pictures of the m4 engine placement, it still starts at the front axle.

Then go and compare it to a front mid engined car. The engine is nowhere near the front axle.

You cannot take a front engined m4 example and turn it into a front mid engined car. It wouldnt get FIA approval.

You can add aero, you can make it wider, you can change the suspension geometry, you have to use a sequential box which you can place where you want, but this isnt prototype racing where you can do what you please willy nilly.

And its why mercedes and lexus are designing new bespoke products for customer gt3 racing, because the vehicles in their current range are unsuited.

 

[Swissbob]

According to the newspaper Motorsport aktuell 300 cars must be built, otherwise they can’t be used for GT3 racing.

 

[klier]

Klier doesnt know what hes talking about.


And its why mercedes and lexus are designing new bespoke products for customer gt3 racing, because the vehicles in their current range are unsuited.

The engine in the M4 GT3 is so far back in the chassis it's a front mid engined car.

You are just as clueless. Only one here who actually knows these things is @Matski
We know your narrative by now.

The BMW M4 GT3 features a front-mounted engine that is positioned further back in the chassis, effectively creating a front-midship layout. This positioning helps optimize weight distribution and improve handling characteristics. The engine is connected to a transaxle at the rear of the car via a driveshaft.

the entire reason why mercedes is making a new car is because the existing is unsuitable for gt3 racing.

Lexus engineers are on record stating their current gt3 car is flawed and compromised, and are developing a new gt3 car alongside a roadcar, utilising a front mid engined setup like the Amg gtr for the same reason.

So let me get this straight...... The Lexus RC-F is unsuited, but the M4 GT3 is, with a very similar layout?

Could it be....... *drum rolls* ................they just suck at GT3 racing?

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The engine in the M4 GT3 is so far back in the chassis it's a front mid engined car.

You are just as clueless. Only one here who actually knows these things is @Matski
We know your narrative by now.





So let me get this straight...... The Lexus RC-F is unsuited, but the M4 GT3 is, with a very similar layout?

Well th RC-F is a different car to the M4 GT3. Maybe the M4 can accommodate it's engine beint pushed further back, but that doesn't mean the RC-F can.

 

[klier]

Well th RC-F is a different car to the M4 GT3. Maybe the M4 can accommodate it's engine beint pushed further back, but that doesn't mean the RC-F can.

This is what Lexus has to say about it:

The GT3 car is a race-specific car that is based on the commercial production model with regulations requiring the use of the monocoque of the production model and forbidding any changes in the layout of the engine mounting position, so LEXUS RC F GT3 is while also adopting the same front-mounted engine and rear-wheel drive layout. The reason that the portion from the A pillar to the C pillar is painted white is that it uses the same parts as the production model.
The rest of the bodywork uses carbon to reduce weight, and especially notable are the front and rear fenders with aerodynamic shapes added. In the production model, the exhaust from the engine extends to the rear of the car, but on the GT3 car it is extended to the sides.

So I don't know how BMW manages to push the engine to an entirely different place compared to the road car. But they very clearly do.

 

[Fastpaddy]

This is what Lexus has to say about it:



So I don't know how BMW manages to push the engine to an entirely different place compared to the road car. But they very clearly do.

Bro, use your eyes and go look at where the m4 engine is, it can only be pushed back so far. You can clearly see the engine is still on the front axle.

On a front mid engined car it is nowhere near the front axle.

In the bentley gt3 they pushed the engine back 9cm. Still not front mid engined.

“

1. Homologation Must Reflect Production Layout
   • The engine position in the GT3 car must match the general architecture of the production vehicle.
   • If the production car is front-engined, the GT3 version must also be front-engined.
   • You cannot relocate the engine to the middle or rear to improve weight distribution or aero balance.

1. Homologation Must Reflect Production Layout
   • The engine position in the GT3 car must match the general architecture of the production vehicle.
   • If the production car is front-engined, the GT3 version must also be front-engined.
   • You cannot relocate the engine to the middle or rear to improve weight distribution or aero balance.”

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

This is what Lexus has to say about it:



So I don't know how BMW manages to push the engine to an entirely different place compared to the road car. But they very clearly do.

I would imagine the dimensions of the cars play a role.
The M4 GT3 is 5020mm long with a 2917mm wheelbase, where the RC-F GT3 is 4846mm long with a 2730mm wheelbase.

For reference the AMG GT3 is 4746mm long with a 2625mm wheelbase. But it's purposely designed with a front-mid engine layout with it's long and low bonnet and a passenger cell that is sat over the rear axle.

There is quite simply, more space in the M4 to move the engine back behind the front axle.

 

[klier]

In the bentley gt3 they pushed the engine back 9cm. Still not front mid engined.

LMAO

Next up: F150 pick-up GT3.

 

[Fastpaddy]

And this is why lexus is now making a front mid engined sports car. Which they are benchmarking against the last generation AMG GTR which low and behold is front mid engined.

And mercedes is making a new front mid engined sports car, because low and behold, their current amg gt63 is NOT front mid engined.

But klier says you can push the engine back, and the current gen gt63 has a longer bonnet than the m4, so they must be able to resposition it right?

Someone give klier a job at gt3 racecar design, he makes every front engined car mid engined, with magic, amg and Lexus engineers need to know his secret so they can save millions.

“However, with no current production car in Lexus’ lineup that is deemed to be suited to the platform, Wilson said they are waiting on a new model to serve as the basis of a “ground up” GT3 car.

“We’ve made no secret or apology for the fact that the car we’re racing right now… The problem is that from a clean sheet of paper, it wasn’t conceived as a GT3 car,” Wilson told Sportscar365.

“It was a sports car and way too late down the line someone said, ‘We should race it.’

“Man it’s been a journey. I’m proud of the fact that we have a competitive race car but it’s not a very good GT3 car and that’s just a fact.”

The RC F GT3 is homologated through the 2026 season, which Wilson said allows Lexus time to wait for what could be next in the production pipeline.

He said the RC F program has also served as a good learning experience in its foray into GT3 racing.

“There’s been value in going through this lesson on a global basis,” he said.

“There’s a much better understanding of the intentionality that you have to have from a product development standpoint from a clean sheet of paper that you bake into the design parameters of a production car.

“We’re certain that those type of lessons will pay off in the future and will pay off with some really cool product.”