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You right, all of us die hard Mercedes enthusiasts cannot expect a return to the good old days with the current Mercedes philosophy, nowadays they only care about shareholders profits. All the cars are built to a price.

In 1991 Mercedes allotted 605 million Deutsche Mark as shareholder dividend from 95 billion DM in revenue, or 0.6% of revenue. In 2023, revenue was €153 billion, with a total dividend pot of €5.5 billion, or 3.6%. So yeah, for every Euro the company takes, it's giving more to shareholders than it was at the introduction of the W140.

... but ...

in 2023, the dividend pot for shareholders was 28% of their EBIT.

In 1991, the 605 million DM dividend pot was 31.6% of Group net income.

So in terms of 'are they nickel & diming people to give more to shareholders' I'd say the answer is no. There's many reasons why people don't think stuff now is as good as it was, some valid, some entirely in their head... but honestly, I don't see shareholder appeasement as being the main driver.

Firstly, nostalgia. It's a massive factor in how we view things from the past - it's almost never a level playing field in that regard.
Secondly, new cars are so 'good' in general that making 'premium' cars (i.e. cars worthy of a price premium) is harder, or at least, harder to show value for money.
Thirdly, go and review every aspect of a W140 against every aspect of a W223. Infotainment...? WUT? Nav? WUT?! There are so many things on modern cars that simply didn't exist on older cars that make them better, and this all is reflected in the price/product package.

Much as I love downplaying the modern S-Class as a product, it's incredible when objectively compared to the older cars, and the fact that manufacturing and design has caught up enough to mean that even cheap cars are pretty good these days shouldn't be to the detriment of manufacturers or cars that did things really well in the past.

We naturally want the best of all eras, but we don't want to pay the cumulative cost of what that takes.
 
Tighter tolerances yes, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the materials used. Those old cars used heavier everything, steel, wood, leather, glass, plastic, all those things that have a Benz is signature smell and heft would cost fortune to build today imo. I’m not sure about the sheet metal they use today but back in the day after a hail storm every Japanese car would have hail damage but not the Mercedes, Volvos etc. lm not sure about today’s Mercedes tho. I think the Maybach 57/62 was their last car like that.

M
Yes you right, the materials used on the newer cars are thinner, less dense and also lighter in some respects. The doors on later Mercedes models and body panels are made from aluminium, so the doors are lighter and don't close with the same thunk. All the added electronic wiring, CPUs' and safety features add extra cost and weight. The interior designers and engineers should dig out the older engineering archives to look at the materials used and their thicknesses etc. and do cost estimates to add least improve this on every facelift or add this on every new model. Once they have designed a new EV platform with suspension components this can probably last 2 generations and they can just update the batteries and electronic components. In my opinion with the advent of full Level 3, 4 and 5 Autonomous driving they probably dont need to increase the strengths of the crumple zones as much as before and put speed limiters on all new cars to limit their top speeds to 180km/h.
 
In 1991 Mercedes allotted 605 million Deutsche Mark as shareholder dividend from 95 billion DM in revenue, or 0.6% of revenue. In 2023, revenue was €153 billion, with a total dividend pot of €5.5 billion, or 3.6%. So yeah, for every Euro the company takes, it's giving more to shareholders than it was at the introduction of the W140.

... but ...

in 2023, the dividend pot for shareholders was 28% of their EBIT.

In 1991, the 605 million DM dividend pot was 31.6% of Group net income.

So in terms of 'are they nickel & diming people to give more to shareholders' I'd say the answer is no. There's many reasons why people don't think stuff now is as good as it was, some valid, some entirely in their head... but honestly, I don't see shareholder appeasement as being the main driver.
While I totally agree with you, you point out 1 year...

Let's see the other years.

I think I even posted last year a mini research of mine, where I pointed out that MB never had the profits that they had in the past years. At least , for so many years in a row....

Thirdly, go and review every aspect of a W140 against every aspect of a W223. Infotainment...? WUT? Nav? WUT?! There are so many things on modern cars that simply didn't exist on older cars that make them better, and this all is reflected in the price/product package.

Much as I love downplaying the modern S-Class as a product, it's incredible when objectively compared to the older cars, and the fact that manufacturing and design has caught up enough to mean that even cheap cars are pretty good these days shouldn't be to the detriment of manufacturers or cars that did things really well in the past.
With all due respect Matski , but you are thankful for too little.

When W140 came , sooo many of it's features were a dream for most people , at that day.

Please , name a feature in W223 that is not available in a <40.000euros car right now. Or better , name a feature in W223 that is not available in at least any other 20models , and 10 brands....

Don't make W223 a special car , because it's not. It is the most boring S class in the history of S class , as per new and innovating things

W222 at least had MBC .


They are greedy as heck , Matski...
 
While I totally agree with you, you point out 1 year...

Let's see the other years.

I think I even posted last year a mini research of mine, where I pointed out that MB never had the profits that they had in the past years. At least , for so many years in a row....


With all due respect Matski , but you are thankful for too little.

When W140 came , sooo many of it's features were a dream for most people , at that day.

Please , name a feature in W223 that is not available in a <40.000euros car right now. Or better , name a feature in W223 that is not available in at least any other 20models , and 10 brands....

Don't make W223 a special car , because it's not. It is the most boring S class in the history of S class , as per new and innovating things

W222 at least had MBC .


They are greedy as heck , Matski...
Mechanical innovation has peaked. This isn't a news or shock really. The difference is now, that the 40K car doesn't put all those things into the same package as a car like an S-Class or similar vehicle. A Hyundai can be optioned with heated rear seats, doesn't mean its rear seat is as comfortable. No 40K car matches the S-Class for it's exact specification. Features alone can be slapped on anything.

Greed? Yes for sure, but back in the day of the W140 introduction they only had a handful of models. 190E, 300-Class, S-Class, SL, S Coupe. Today you'd be hard pressed to name all the cars they sell and have to continually support, re-engineer etc.

M
 
While I totally agree with you, you point out 1 year...

Let's see the other years.

I think I even posted last year a mini research of mine, where I pointed out that MB never had the profits that they had in the past years. At least , for so many years in a row....


With all due respect Matski , but you are thankful for too little.

When W140 came , sooo many of it's features were a dream for most people , at that day.

Please , name a feature in W223 that is not available in a <40.000euros car right now. Or better , name a feature in W223 that is not available in at least any other 20models , and 10 brands....

Don't make W223 a special car , because it's not. It is the most boring S class in the history of S class , as per new and innovating things

W222 at least had MBC .


They are greedy as heck , Matski...
the W140 was an expensive car to develop and Mercedes spent over $1 Billion on Research and Development back then in the 80s. They overran the project by 18 months, as the car was supposed to debut at IAA 1989 but only launched at Geneva 1991.

This is an interesting article about the C140 but also mentions some details on the W140 cost and development also.

 
Tighter tolerances yes, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the materials used. Those old cars used heavier everything, steel, wood, leather, glass, plastic, all those things that have a Benz is signature smell and heft would cost fortune to build today imo.

You might want to check the average quality of a KIA or Hyundai to appreciate MB a little more again. True the quality could be a whole lot better, but in a KIA literally EVERY panel squeels, makes sounds and moves inches when touched..... all while looking very nice and tidy in pictures.
 
They are greedy as heck , Matski...

I'm not saying they aren't, what I'm saying is the perception that this greed is why things aren't like they were is probably ill founded - they were about as greedy back then too...

I am assuming similar dividends in other years, I only picked 1991 as it was when the W140 that had been mentioned had been produced, and 2023 as it was the latest annual report I had.

With all due respect Matski , but you are thankful for too little.

Perhaps. I don't tend to place much value on features that are there for the sake of having new features, or even having certain materials for the sake of having those materials.
 
Porsche and Bentley are down a little , but it does not really matter , because the margin is great...

But man , Audi is bleeding hard....

The Audi brand continues to find itself reeling from some sins of the past. The brands involvement in the "Dieselgate" scandal, damage self-inflicted by some pretty thoughtless public statements made by a former CEO and the brands former director of marketing (both no longer with VAG), the CARIAD mess that contributed to massive new product presentation delays, well over two years for the A6 and Q6 etrons for example, to name a few. Audi needs to present a slam dunk that is not a stop gap solution. I don't see that coming any time soon.
 
Slam dunk is out of the question for Audi, but the PPC/PPE lineup should see a significant increase in sales regardless.
 
European new car market growth in 2024 driven by hybrids and Chinese brands
  • Hybrid cars were the only vehicle segment to post a year-on-year increase in registrations
  • Registrations of cars made in China outsold Japanese, British, and Turkish-made vehicles
  • SUVs made up almost 54% of total registrations, while hatchbacks lost ground
  • The Dacia Sandero tops the model ranking for the first time, dethroning the Tesla Model Y
  • Toyota outsells BMW Group; Geely ahead of Tesla
  • BMW and Skoda brands climb the rankings; Audi drops by four positions; Kia and Ford drop out of the top ten
  • Tesla outsells Fiat; Lexus outsells Honda; and BYD registers more new cars than Alfa Romeo, with more than 50,000 units

Europe’s new passenger car market grew by 0.9% last year. This is according to new data from JATO Dynamics, which found that 12,909,741 new passenger cars were registered across Europe-28 in 2024.[1]

Despite the slight uptick in registrations, 2024 was the fifth year of muted registrations figures when compared to pre-pandemic levels. Europe’s car market has shrunk by almost 2.9 million units since the arrival of the pandemic in 2020.

European car regs last 10 years


“Overall, when you consider the range of challenges facing Europe’s automotive industry, the results for 2024 are not overly negative,” commented Felipe Munoz, Global Analyst at JATO Dynamics. “However, you would expect any other industry to have shown significant signs of recovery by now, and there is very little evidence that the automotive industry will return to the pre-pandemic reality. The higher cost of vehicles, the rise of working from home, inflationary pressure on wages and the emergence of new transportation solutions are among the reasons why Europeans have stopped buying brand new cars,” Munoz continued.

European car regs by powertrain 2024


Fewer electric cars, more hybrids

2024 was not a positive year for sales of electric vehicles (EVs) in Europe, with the slowdown in growth that the industry began to see signs of in 2022 resulting in a drop in sales last year. Sales grew +107% year on year between 2019 and 2020, +63% between 2020 and 2021, +29% between 2021 and 2022, and +28% between 2022 and 2023. However, 1,985,996 units of new passenger EVs were registered in EU28 in 2024, marking a year-on-year decline of 1.2%.

The drop in registrations was also reflected in the market share of BEVs in Europe, which decreased slightly from 15.7% in 2023 to 15.4% last year. A lack of clarity about incentives for BEVs, the high average retail price of new models and low residual values – as well as concerns about charging infrastructure across the continent – are among the reasons behind the decline. Despite the drop recorded last year, the situation is expected to improve over 2025 as the average price of a BEV continues to fall in Europe, largely due to the introduction of less expensive models from mainstream automakers.

BEV market share by country


Norway maintained its poll position in 2024, with BEVs holding the largest market share (88%). It was followed by Denmark (51%), Sweden (35%) and the Netherlands (34.7%). Denmark, Belgium, Norway, Luxembourg and the Netherlands were the five countries in Europe where BEVs gained the most market share year on year, while the opposite occurred in Germany, Ireland, Finland, Romania and Sweden.

Top 10 OEM by powertrain 2024


From a manufacturer perspective, the BEV market did not change significantly in 2024. The Volkswagen Group remained the top-seller, with more than 427,000 units of its electric models registered in 2024. Its share of the BEV market fell slightly from 22.2% in 2023 to 21.5% last year and remains below its share of the wider new passenger vehicle market, which stood at 26.1% in 2024. Tesla followed in second position, despite increased competition from other players and its Model 3 being unable to offset significant losses while consumers waited for the arrival of the new Model Y. In third place came Stellantis, which remained in the top three producers of BEVs despite posting a 10% drop in volumes. Elsewhere, BEVs made up a greater part of the sales mix for BMW Group and Geely last year.

Top 10 origins 2024


European car regs by segments 2024


Hybrid vehicles: a halfway house?

Although not all carmakers offer fully hybrid models, the segment recorded year-on-year growth of 21% between 2023 and 2024, and all carmakers that offered fully hybrid vehicles posted growth last year.

Top 20 best-selling PHEV & BEV 2024


Top 10 best-selling models 2024


Out of a total market of 1,529,806 units registered in 2024, Toyota accounted for 738,500 units. Almost one in two hybrid vehicles registered in Europe in 2024 had a Toyota or Lexus logo, and 75% of registrations of Toyota passenger cars were hybrid vehicles.

Renault Group followed with almost 300,000 units, up 49% year on year, while Hyundai-Kia, Nissan and Honda accounted for the rest of the top five. Volkswagen Group, Stellantis, BMW Group, Mercedes-Benz and Geely were a few of the manufacturers absent from this segment.

Hybrids have become increasingly popular due to the comparatively high average retail price of BEVs and concerns about charging infrastructure. According to a recent JATO study, the average retail price of a hybrid available in the Eurozone in 2024 was €42,222, compared to €62,709 for a BEV.

China continues to grow in influence

According to JATO estimates, almost 21% of total new passenger vehicles registered in EU28 in 2024 came from plants in Germany.[1] However, Germany lost market share in this respect to Czechia, the third largest country of origin for vehicles in Europe, behind Spain. France came in fourth position, despite volumes from French factories falling by 3%, while Romania rounded off the top five.
Top 50 best-selling brands 2024

The most significant trend was China becoming the sixth-largest country of origin for new vehicles registered in Europe. Between 2023 and 2024, it outsold the United Kingdom, Turkey, Japan and South Korea. “Last year, more of the cars registered in Europe came from China than Japan,” Munoz commented. “China’s influence in Europe – both from Chinese OEMs and Chinese-made vehicles – is growing steadily. Their products are highly competitive, but it remains to be seen just how much the introduction of tariffs will impact its growth,” Munoz continued.

SAIC Motor, Geely, BYD, Chery, and BMW Group were the top best-selling companies of Chinese assembly origin cars in Europe last year.[1]

Record market share for SUVs

SUVs remained the best-selling vehicle segment in Europe, despite growth of the category moderating over the past three years. 54% of total registrations in Europe in 2024 were SUVs - a record market share for the segment. In total, consumers in Europe bought 6.92 million SUVs, up 4% from 2023.

Compact SUVs (C-SUVs) were the most popular type within the category, accounting for 42% of total SUV registrations last year, followed by smaller models (B-SUVs), with 36% market share. However, the largest growth came from luxury SUVs, registrations of which were up 13% to 56,300 units.

Almost one quarter of the total number of new SUVs registered in Europe last year were from Volkswagen Group, with the T-Roc and Tiguan among the top ten best-selling models in the category. Stellantis was the second best-seller with almost 800,000 units – down 7% from 2023 – while Hyundai-Kia came in third place with 705,500 units, down 1%.

SUVs were a key segment last year for other automakers including Jaguar Land Rover, Geely, Honda and SAIC Motor, while the segment made up less than half of total sales for Stellantis, Renault Group, BMW Group, Mercedes-Benz and Mitsubishi.

The Dacia Sandero leads for the first time

The end of the Volkswagen Golf’s reign as Europe’s most popular model of passenger vehicle in 2021, was followed by yearly changes in the first position. In 2022, the Peugeot 208 gained the crown; in 2023 it was the Tesla Model Y; and the Dacia Sandero – which has been in the top three best-selling models since 2021 – took first place last year.

The popularity of the Sandero is largely down to its status as one of the most affordable car models available in Europe. Its price allowed it to top the model ranking in two markets – Spain and Portugal – while it was among the top five best-selling models in France, Italy, Belgium, Austria and Romania.
Top 50 best-selling models 2024

In 2024, registrations of the Tesla Model Y fell by 17% – the steepest drop among the top 36 models – as it dropped to fourth place in the model ranking and lost its crown as Europe’s best-selling vehicle in the process. The downturn can be partly attributed to the decreasing impact of price cuts offered by Tesla last year in comparison with 2023 – a factor that helped propel it to top spot – and increasing competition within the market. Despite the downturn, the Model Y was the best-selling car in the Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark and Norway last year.

Elsewhere, the Volkswagen Golf regained some traction due to better-than-expected results in markets including Germany, Italy, Austria, and Spain. Nevertheless, the 215,700 units registered last year pale in the comparison to the 445,600 and 410,300 units registered in 2018 and 2019 respectively. The Golf and the Tiguan posted the highest increase in volume among the top 20 models.

Further down the model ranking, strong results were posted by the BMW X1 (+30%), Seat Ibiza (+34%), Opel/Vauxhall Astra (+38%), Jeep Avenger (+93%), Suzuki Swift (+38%), Mercedes E-Class (+33%), Seat Leon (+39%), Mercedes EQB (+58%), Mercedes GLC Coupe (+37%), and the BMW X2 (+54%).

Among the new cars that were introduced between late 2023 and 2024, 78,000 units of the Volvo EX30 were registered, as it became Europe’s third best-selling BEV. Volkswagen registered 32,200 units of the ID.7, hitting the top 20 BEVs; the new MG3 posted decent sales figures of 31,300 units; 26,300 units of the Fiat 600 were registered, below the 37,400 units of the 500X registered in 2023; 24,100 units of the new Renault Scenic E-Tech were registered; while 21,400 units of the Lexus LBX were registered – far ahead of its rival the Alfa Romeo Junior, for which only 5,300 units were registered.

 
Guess I am when I look at all those charts. Unreal. I mean I can see it but I really have to look carefully.
I had to put on my welding goggles to check the difference in shades. Lol they could have used pink and yellow or luminous green
 
S Class is on verge of getting a facelift
Partialy agree: W222 had sold around 100k per year , and in 2017 when the FL was released , it sold 80k. Not a huge difference

By the way : 100.000 S class per year ! Let that sink in...

Compare it to today
 
w223 Sales
2021 91,000
2022 117,500
2023 93,300
Wow that is impressive, but does this also include the EQS and Maybach? But those cars probably don't add that much maybe 15000 units?

In 3 years of sales or 301,800 the W223 is only 82K units less than the total 7-year production run of the W108 S models
 

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