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2013 Lexus GS (Prototype) First Drives

Discussion in 'GS / ES' started by hoffmeister_fan, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. rs271

    rs271 Well-Known Member Contributing Member

    Japanese magazine suggests Lexus might drop the GS from its range
    Lexus is reportedly considering to discontinue the GS once the current generation ends its production cycle.

    389869b6c11f251ea46008faf9e6f5ee.

    The rumor comes from Japanese magazine MAG-X, which claims that company leaders have already made that decision. Apparently, the motivation that led to the decision was the fear that the GS could poach customers from the new LS, which is the company’s flagship.

    Lexus is supposed to launch the successor of the GS in 2018, but some think that the production version of the UX crossover could use the extra capacity that would be clear if the GS gets the ax.

    Company officials have yet to clarify the matter, and we don't expect a "yes or no answer" on the topic.

    As Lexus Enthusiast remarks, the current generation of the e-segment model was close to being canceled back when it was developed, in 2011. At the time, Akio Toyoda disapproved of this model, but he was convinced to approve it after discussions with Lexus’ regional management teams.

    However, the successor of the GS could be in danger, MAG-X explained, because the LS is downsizing to a V6, which could make it more affordable.

    The explanation would be that the expensive versions of the GS would "get in the way" of the entry-model LS, which is something that we do not see as possible to a significant extent. Meanwhile, the affordable ones are already outdone in sales by the ES.

    The ES is based on a Toyota platform, and it is placed in the same segment as the GS, but at a lower price. Thanks to those characteristics, the clients of the ES get “more car for the money,” even if it does not match the style and driving feel of the rear-wheel-drive based model.

    Up to a point, the report in the Japanese magazine makes one think about the future of the GS as being in jeopardy, but we would not hold our breath until it leaves production.

    Toyota
    's premium arm has used this model to launch new design languages, and we feel that this car drives in a way that describes the brand adequately. While it may not beat the BMW 5 Series, Audi’s A6, or Mercedes-Benz’ E-Class in sales, it does have its place in the market. The only question that remains is if that position is satisfactory for the premium brand.

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-might-drop-the-gs-from-its-range-116247.html
     
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    • Yaz

      Yaz Well-Known Member

      Won't believe it till it's official. This rumor was the rumor before the current generation GS came out.

      I just can't see Lexus without a mid size sedan.
       
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      • hoffmeister_fan

        hoffmeister_fan Well-Known Member

        Technically, they have 2 midsize 4-door sedans: the ES and GS. The ES is objectively inferior but it's a veritable cash-cow for them. So are they willing to foresake profit in order to burnish their image by getting rid of the ES and focus on the GS? I doubt it.
         
      • Yaz

        Yaz Well-Known Member

        The ES is a rebadged Camry/Avalon, doesn't come close to the GS. It's more of an old man's car.

        There's just too big of a gap between an IS and LS (even if it's a V6).
         
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        • hoffmeister_fan

          hoffmeister_fan Well-Known Member

          My sentiment is that if Lexus wants to have their cake and eat it too, they may want to re-position the GS' spot in the line-up. Have the ES be positioned for the old-tmers and those who don't give a toss which wheels are being driven and rebody the GS as a sporty RWD-based 4-door coupe.

          I can almost guarantee that the average US buyer who steps into a dealership who sees two mid-sized cars will gravitate to the cheaper alternative when the cheaper car offers 90% of what the buyer is looking for. Most buyers, whether it's Lexus or any other brand, are not aware of the mechanical details insofar as it does what the owner wants it to do, i.e. if they want AWD, they will inquire if it has AWD.
           
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          • Mr. Mercedes

            Mr. Mercedes Well-Known Member

            Perhaps it it didn't look like a Toyota in drag, it would be more successful. The previous generations had something about the shape and proportions that gave them some character. At least you would see one every now and then on the raod. The current generation looks just like any other Toyota sedan and doesn't compel you in any way to look away from the Germans.
             
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            • Monster

              Monster Global Moderator Staff Member

              Up until now, Toyota hasn't done the best they can with their Lexus range. There are still far too many areas of the interior where you can notice the Toyota parts sharing, and the overall design lacks final polish.
               
            • SKY

              SKY Well-Known Member

              The previous gen IS, GS and LS looked good when they debuted. The design disaster that are the current ones is probably what is making them not sell as spected.
               
            • klier

              klier Member

              Top Poster Of Month

              The ES is not a worldwide car, but for the Americans I think. The GS is the only true midsize luxury sedan they have. And it is not going anywhere.
               
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              • SCOTT27

                SCOTT27 Well-Known Member Contributing Member

                They probably have been waiting for the G30 to see what they can learn from it.
                If you look at the current GS and squint there is a certain E60 about its outline and detailing.
                 
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                • 330CIZHP

                  330CIZHP Well-Known Member

                  Quite the contrary, the IS, RX, NX and ES are all selling well. It is just the GS and LS are not.
                   
                • Serpens

                  Serpens Active Member

                  [post deleted]

                  Looks like I wasn't completely up to date.
                   
                  Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
                • hoffmeister_fan

                  hoffmeister_fan Well-Known Member

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                  • Carmaker1

                    Carmaker1 Member

                    Funny how you just happened to bring up, that Toyota was yearning to study the G30. :LOL: Does the W213 not exist for that matter?

                    You think that's the only model for which the E60 was in their sights? How about this one then?

                    054bce5762e273996eb6ad717446d6f6aeb941213ac46abf0ed1394f4ea214bf. 4ef294db04b54a3184c9e72aaa8498d36c35d8c038bd9f5945b4a8f8b5b7e7ba.

                    Everyone wanted to call it an E65 copy, but the E60 was a major influence in my opinion and my mind went there immediately when I first saw the XF40 LS over 11 years ago. It was an L-finessed E60 LWB, which is a reason why I had liked it so much over that ugly contraption they designed in 1997 that was a four door C140 (Sacco chided Toyota for that).
                    74da69e25fadd584ce407f7cdfc099e02410376affaef7eeb09c655f38cdb18f.
                    3d42daa495cd711d52a6b8d63dc0c4b6.
                    Sadly for Davide Arcangeli, he never lived to see how much influence his 5er had in the global marketplace. The 3rd generation GS design was finalized in 2002, so clearly the E60 back then wasn't a viable benchmark until later stages. The LS design was approved a few months after the spring 2003 debut of the E60, which it shows clearly.

                    Well, I do like to keep under the radar (the link;)) site-to-site. There is a lot of traffic here, that keeps us all up to date on things in planning at BMW, Daimler, and VAG, plus so many products in the making, that it's overwhelming to comment on everything. The reality, you'll learn nothing about what any Japanese OEMs are doing, unless you speak their language literally.


                    Anyway, to the main point. I had read this while on vacation 3 months ago, which in some parts of Africa, it is not easy to make online purchases. I had only read a snippet, that highlighted suspension of GS development. The owner ended up buying the article, but refused to comment on the rumour until he could get a full translation to English.


                    When he did get it, 2 1/2 months had passed since it was published. I am even hearing, that earlier issues even had this tidbit circa September 2016. In development decision making, that can be a long time. The April 2019 start of production date is far from now, but the car will be unveiled sometime next year.


                    The new LS500 design was set about 33 months ago, but does not enter production until about November this year and will be launched in early 2018. Usually Japanese OEMs have much shorter lead times, but their new platforms and engines are requiring more time to serve any teething issues.


                    Even their mainstream MY2018 Toyota Camry's design was approved 3 years ago, yet it barely goes on sale in August 2017. Simple family cars like that used to be done in as little as 18 months before Job #1, but now they've moved things up significantly.


                    I cannot imagine how this waffling we're hearing about, could allow enough time to cancel a new Lexus GS last year and then it in time for mid-2019. Before this, the car was scheduled for late 2018 start-up, but seeing this new date makes sense. This waffling sounds like what happened circa 2009, when the current GS was done being designed (new Spindle grille & everything) and then-new CEO & heir Akio Toyoda wanted to cancel it.

                    It is impossible to know anything about what they're doing, as the Japanese OEMs use very mysterious nomenclature for development programme codes. Honda uses 3-digit, alphanumeric codes that are extremely inexact (#XX) and appear to be randomly generated.

                    At Toyota/Lexus its 4-digit, with a 3-digit numeric prefix, followed by a single letter (###X). Nissan's are terribly confusing and hard to figure out, but I have cracked all of them anyway. The GS is being develoepd under "300B", like "200B" for the new LS and "950A" for the LC coupe.


                    Unlike American and European OEMs that utilize chassis codes (sometimes along nicknames), Japan is able to keep things very close to vest by using randomly generated codes to title model programmes. I do not know what is so pressing for them to hide. If MB and BMW need not worry, why should they need to be so secretive?
                     
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                    • Carmaker1

                      Carmaker1 Member

                      I understand that for the IS and GS, but not so much the LS. The LS is so old, that its successor needed to be revealed ASAP, that they kept details about it so close to vest all of 2016, as market launch is still 1 year away and unlike LC500, the exotic effect isn't as strong.

                      This always happens to Lexus anyway, as after January 2006 reveal of the current model, sales of the LS430 fell horribly in the U.S., that Mercedes retook the crown for best-seller in 2006 with the new W221.

                      In 2007, the LS broke sales records globally, but the crash happened in 2008 and then a shitty refresh in 2009, resulting in MB capturing the title in 2010 and it has never been the same since, especially when BMW brought over extra 7er variants below the 750i.

                      The only brand to ever do such a move in keeping a flagship sedan well beyond 10 years, was Mercedes-Benz with the W126 of course. Unlike the outgoing LS, that had serious market dominance to be kept 11 1/2 years on the market (pre-W140).

                      Again like in 2006, no one cares to buy/lease a current LS when a new one is coming or have since jumped ship to another model/brand, in being tired of waiting for a new model. The aging power plants are also the reason Lexus sedans are suffering in sales, as their NA V6s are not as competitive as they used to be and the I4s are not convincing.
                       
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                      • Merc1

                        Merc1 Well-Known Member Contributing Member

                        Bingo!

                        M
                         
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