2012 Audi A6 versus BMW 535i review: And the best luxury sedan is...

[donkeykong]

 

[ateekt]

Audi sure is a great looking car & shows more of sportiness than Bimmer's classy luxury profile. Hard call but I'd take Bimmer!

 

[Human]

The F10 is such a beautiful looking car with a F01 7er interior ambiance to match. We Beemer enthusiast got exactly what we expected from the F10 5er and that makes the Audi A6 (with all it's good points and engineering prowess) still absolute, my money WILL buy the F10 without a moments doubt

 

[Sunny]

We Beemer enthusiast got exactly what we expected from the F10 5er

Design wise, maybe, but dynamics, I am afraid not, at least not for me (based on what I read) - the car is too porky - downside of sharing the platform from a 7er perhaps. As for the Audi, kudos to them for focusing on weight and creating a dynamically awesome car. I have seen a few now on the road, with the LED headlights, it definitely a looker from the front, the rear not so.

ps. That drag race was the probably the most retarded one I have seen to date.

 

[Human]

Design wise, maybe, but dynamics, I am afraid not, at least not for me (based on what I read) - the car is too porky - downside of sharing the platform from a 7er perhaps. As for the Audi, kudos to them for focusing on weight and creating a dynamically awesome car. I have seen a few now on the road, with the LED headlights, it definitely a looker from the front, the rear not so.

ps. That drag race was the probably the most retarded one I have seen to date.

Having driven the F10 (owning both an X6 M an X1 and gone but not forgotten a 120i, 2x E46 3ers an 2x E53 X5's) - IMO the car delivers on dynamics albeit the focus on comfort is more evident and with poor maintained rural roads locally it's a HUGE plus

As for the Audi, kudos to them for focusing on weight and creating a dynamically awesome car.

We read it in all the new A6 tests and the weight issue is a simple fact. So kudos indeed to Audi and yes BMW was caught with their pants down on weight saving in their current lineup, an issue they should address properly going forward. BMW has and does make a huge effort on unsprung mass so CRFP components combined with more extensive use of aluminium should be high on the agenda.

 

[K-A]

"Car Reviews" mean little to nothing to me, as all they tend to focus on things that are mostly irrelevant to Luxury Sedans to me (how it dances around cones, how many pebbles you feel from the road.... Almost regressive to the concept of a Luxury Car if done to such an extent that it sacrifices the very Luxury nature of said car), but the A6 has been absolutely decimating the F10 in every single Review.

Audi is becoming the new BMW in this way, while BMW is feeling how M-B did when the "up and coming" BMW were the Automotive Presses darlings, due to their sportier nature which was more enticing to Reviewers who didn't care about how it would be to own the cars for periods of time, rather the fun they can have abusing them in their 30 minute Test drives.

 

[Deckhook]

I'm with Sunny on this one, Human you are becoming Klier with each passing day. I also thought the F10 would be a hard car to beat but after getting a lengthy drive in the new A6 I see actually what these guys and the countless others are on about, it feels so much lighter and more responsive to your inputs. The only thing I see the F10 being genuinely better is being quieter, apart from that I think the A6 has it covered.

P.S. Though I agree what I stupid drag race.

 

[K-A]

Lol, just imagining these two cars drag racing has me cracking up. Where in that video is that?

Now I gotta go Test Drive the new A6 to see what all the hoopla is about, damnit. I already drove the A7 and assume/d that it would be the A6 but if anything, better.

 

[Tumbo]

The new A6 is really turning to be a huge success. I only have seen amazing critics about it, and it really is an amazing car. Kudos to Audi. They built a killer! BMW looks boring to me.

 

[Human]

I'm with Sunny on this one, Human you are becoming Klier with each passing day. I also thought the F10 would be a hard car to beat but after getting a lengthy drive in the new A6 I see actually what these guys and the countless others are on about, it feels so much lighter and more responsive to your inputs. The only thing I see the F10 being genuinely better is being quieter, apart from that I think the A6 has it covered.

P.S. Though I agree what I stupid drag race.

Heads-up: He's my brother from another mother I do not mind being accused of being a BMW Fanboy Fact is the F10 appeals to me in every way necessary. The car looks gorgeous, drives with enough feedback whilst being luxurious as K-A said:

Audi is becoming the new BMW in this way, while BMW is feeling how M-B did when the "up and coming" BMW were the Automotive Presses darlings, due to their sportier nature which was more enticing to Reviewers who didn't care about how it would be to own the cars for periods of time, rather the fun they can have abusing them in their 30 minute Test drives.

and I for one can live with a better drive in n business sport sedan.
The F10's dash layout and seating position for me Naas the beholder, customer, buyer is 110% better than the A6's. Only thing I like about the A6's dash is the instrument cluster with it's large center display (although the traditional BMW instrument cluster layout in it's modern interpretation of the F10/F01 new F20 and X3 still appeals to me more)

Secondly I gave the A6 the kudos it deserves:

We read it in all the new A6 tests and the weight issue is a simple fact. So kudos indeed to Audi and yes BMW was caught with their pants down on weight saving in their current lineup, an issue they should address properly going forward. BMW has and does make a huge effort on unsprung mass so CRFP components combined with more extensive use of aluminium should be high on the agenda.

In the end me, the beholder find the A7 and A1 fantastic to look at and the pre-FL A5 coupe was a favourite of mine. As with the A4 the A6 is bland and unappealing to me. The engineering prowess of the A6 coupled with it's sporty and sharp nature is good news for the brand and the typical Audi buyer/fanboy and maybe bad for the typical BMW image. Although it's not going to change my mind when I have the choice of purchasing one of the two - it will be the stunning BMW F10
If I had to purchase another brand i'd still prefer the E-class over the A6

 

[EnI]

Yes, BMW large platform is too heavy - due to cost cutting @ times when alu prices were record high. So they opted for "light steel" instead.

And they addressed the customer demand and deliver more comfy car @ expense of sportiness, and in some spots Audi outperformed them - especiall when A6 is equipped with AWD & more torque.

Perhaps not best thing for the image ... but the car sells better than the old one! Globally it oversells the E-class (sure not in all markets - eg. US), and people seem to love the product. Perhaps the car is not the sharpest product available anymore, but current customer base doesn't seem to care much, I guess. The customer base is changing, and people are obviously not into hardcore sportiness anymore.

It's very interesting what will happen in the future. Will BMW go even more "Benzy" with thir cars? Will Audi product become even more sharper? Is Audi becoming the new BMW when it comes to sharpest products available? How far will they go? The future will be quite interesting with all the turbo tech & hybrid tech etc ... and lightweight materials used etc ... not to mention the software & electronics when it comes to car's performance ...



Btw, regarding the video ... It's so amateur & childish ... "Oh, let's have a drag race, yeah! "

"Feel that ... horsepower!" Is that guy stupid, or just playing stupid? Like HP has much to do @ acceleration. First, torque is what matters, secondly traction (AWD vs TWD), and then the gearing.

And ... 5er looks more like 3er (E90!) - cheaper, and A6 more like A8 - more expensive. Are they serious?

Nevertheless ... Current A6 is a formidable rival ... Kudos to Audi to have guts & go alu although it was more costly to do it .... It still isn't as refined to drive as BMW or MB... and the feedback is still not the same as in BMW ... But it sure feels lighter & more nimble ... At least in higher-end AWD versions, not so much in low-end FWD ones!

 

[Merc1]

The video is pretty lame, anyone could have done that comparo. No way to excuse away the BMW having lost its edge.

M

 

[EnI]

As said ... The question is, how much on purpose has BMW lost edge? As said many times here: there is a constant demand from customer base to make BMW cars more comfortable for daily driving ... Not as demanding to drive ... etc. The customer base has changed ... Sure there are still some hardcore enthusiasts left ... But they are a minority ... and the demand for "sportiness" is till high, but today's "sportiness" is not as sharp as it was the sportiness years ago. Check ALL the BMW launches ... with every Mk the cars become more refined to drive, less hardcore, and "softer". while BMW has becoming softer, the rivals have becoming sharper. And now they've met obviously. And some rivals are going even more sharper it seems. The main question is, will BMW - now when Audi as core rival has offered sharper products - still going softer & "Benzy", or will they react & reclaime the throne of sportiness.

IMO they will go even softer ... that's what the vast majority of their core customer pool wants, unfortunately. And the question is how far will Audi go with the sharpness & sportiness. Same question for the MB.

IMO there will be some fine-tuning when it comes to positioning in the future. And not always the sharpest product has the biggest customer base! Eg. many generations of E outsold 5er, then 5er outsold E, but then A6 outsold them both etc.

It's marketing vs. engineering. Is it best what is sells best (and still a second or third sharpest product), or is it best what's best technologically / engineering wise (sharpest product but not necessary a top seller).

The companies with largest resources can achieve both ... Deliver a superb product, sharpest product ... and offer it lower prices than rivals - and also achieve a sales #1.

That's why Audi - with a help of mother VAG - is such formidable brand & company. They have resources: money, knowledge, synergies, economies of scale benefits - since being a part of larger concern.

So, when it comes to "best products" I'm sure VAG brands will emerge winners.

And when Audi is done with BMW, they'll go after MB. To best both - BMW in sportiness, and MB in comfort. And be sure they will achieve that.

 

[Merc1]

As said ... The question is, how much on purpose has BMW lost edge?

You mean you don't have the answer to that too? I just knew you would. Of course BMW is planing to lose out to Audi on sportiness because of customer demand for comfort. Sure they meant for Audi to trump one of their stars, what nonsense. Face it BMW has lost the plot in some areas. If they aren't sportier than the competition (their previous calling card), what is the point of buying one? In this case the 5-Series? The car is overweight and off the mark, no amount of excuses and doublespeak will make that go away or justify it.

One minute BMW is the all conquering force, the next they're this feeble company who can't do this and can't do that anymore, yet the competition does. What a CROCK. Hope the M5 doesn't fall to this nonsense.


M

 

[Deckhook]

@Merc1,

I don't think BMW have lost the plot, just that they didn't expect the A6 to be as good as it turned out to be. There is key areas where Audi are well ahead at the moment; one area is the engine, that supercharged engine in the Audi is just so strong and responsive compared to the N55 and I don't know whether it's down to one being supercharged and the other turboed or whether it's the switch from two to one turbo. Then there is the weight difference, EnI got it spot on by saying BMW were cutting costs by using steel where in the past they used aluminium but why can Audi do it and they can't. Are BMW looking to make more profits now than they did in the past and what does this mean for the F30.

 

[bmwownage]

I don't think BMW "wants" to go soft or unsporty, but thing is they are using their brand image (sporty) to make less sporty cars and they are getting away with it for now. Honestly, when you are up at the 5series + level, if all you want is sheer comfort, the rational choice, or the obvious choice would probably be a E class.. the only reason why BMW turned that around was with the E39 when it was just so much nicer to drive, so much sportier than the E back at the time, so it was that sporty/ultimate driving machine character that put BMW in the position it is in now. They are probably milking the cow now but I hope they won't lose the plot. Thing is, nowadays, it isn't so much of a "compromise" between sportiness and comfort, because a car is expected to have both sportiness AND comfort, and I would've thought BMW should capitalise on this and not just say "the customer base has changed".

 

[EnI]

@Marcus

What's point of buying MB when Lexus is more comfy?

The point is people love the product, and they buy it. Simple as that.

Btw, not that BMW wanted to lose against rivals in sportiness ... but sure BMW products are getting "softer" on purpose - since customers demand more comfy cars. And at constant price more comfort can only come @ expense of sportiness. I guess BMW bosses didn't really believe Audi will go so alu with A6. Or they did but they have no choice - since the alu was just to expensive, and the investors demanded higher profit margins which could not be achieved with alu used. VAG could get cheaper raw alu since it has much bigger purchase power - buying bigger quantities @ lower prices.

I know you are smart, and not stupid ... so, please, do me a favor and stop playing stupid ... For your own good & for mine as well ...


@bmwownage

"the customer base has changed" have two meanings: the preferences of customers are different - but even more the pool changed. More people who (also) prefer (more) comfort drive BMW than ever. The composition of the customer pool has changed ... So many new customers with different preferences came in they started to overshadow the traditional customer base. Simple as that. BMW brand is starting to be a victim of its own success. Too popular to too many "wrong" (non-enthusiastic) people.

 

[Merc1]

@Marcus

What's point of buying MB when Lexus is more comfy?

The point is people love the product, and they buy it. Simple as that.

Btw, not that BMW wanted to lose against rivals in sportiness ... but sure BMW products are getting "softer" on purpose - since customers demand more comfy cars. And at constant price more comfort can only come @ expense of sportiness. I guess BMW bosses didn't really believe Audi will go so alu with A6. Or they did but they have no choice - since the alu was just to expensive, and the investors demanded higher profit margins which could not be achieved with alu used. VAG could get cheaper raw alu since it has much bigger purchase power - buying bigger quantities @ lower prices.

I know you are smart, and not stupid ... so, please, do me a favor and stop playing stupid ... For your own good & for mine as well ...

Now who's playing stupid with a question like that? Unlike BMW, Mercedes has had many advantages over the competition over the years. BMW did not. It was all about the drive, not the safety, reliability or anything else like that, BMWs didn't sell on those virtues. It was the drive. Lexus' are already softer than Mercedes' yet that isn't enough now is it? Especially outside of the U.S.

You keep touting the advantages that VW/Audi have, yet you still try to imply that BMW is still superior. I mean which is it? Either BMW got beat here or they didn't. Quite all the spinning/waffling/bs. If Audi is building a sportier car then BMW's goose is cooked with certain buyers.


M

 

[bmwownage]

OK I don't think there would be any new customer base that demands "heaviness" at least.

No offense at all, i'm a BMW fanboy myself and I'd still go for the F10 if I had a choice but you know, looking at a BMW beaten by an Audi in terms of weight, driving pleasure, speed, is rather insulting.

THere isn't much point defending, the F10 is an excellent car but simply too heavy. Just think about it, a while ago we had Z4M's going against Porsches and now we have a 5series being more sluggish (despite excellent) against an Audi A6. Glad the M3 is still the overall king, would really be sad to see one day when a C class is better than the 3series.

 

[Merc1]

@Merc1,

I don't think BMW have lost the plot, just that they didn't expect the A6 to be as good as it turned out to be. There is key areas where Audi are well ahead at the moment; one area is the engine, that supercharged engine in the Audi is just so strong and responsive compared to the N55 and I don't know whether it's down to one being supercharged and the other turboed or whether it's the switch from two to one turbo. Then there is the weight difference, EnI got it spot on by saying BMW were cutting costs by using steel where in the past they used aluminium but why can Audi do it and they can't. Are BMW looking to make more profits now than they did in the past and what does this mean for the F30.

Disagree, I think they have. They introduced a heavier, slower apparently not as good to drive car to the market. I haven't driven the 5er yet to know, just going by the reviews. BMW once stood for lightweight peformance and precise dynamics, and EnI is telling us that this isn't possible anymore because the customer base has changed? I ain't buying it, is specious nonsense. BMW cheaped out by trying to put the 5 on the 7 chassis and its way too heavy and compromised for the segment, at least for the enthusiasts. Thats the bottom line here. Is it a fine car otherwise, yes..its gorgeous...I am considering an M5 myself, but they don't own the sport aspect of this segment anymore. Plain and simple, and we can ramble on about the reasons all day long, but there it is.


M