F1 2008 Spanish GP

[Remy Zero]

Well no one has yet said that in this thread, but if you read all the posts slagging him, I get the general feeling that a lot GCF members think of Alonso as a whining brat.

Almost all great drivers complained when things didn't go well. However, that can be managed by the team. At some point part of the blame goes on the team bosses for not being able to manage two top-tier drivers.

The one Alonso complaining incident that bothered me was in 2006, when Schumacher was narrowing his lead in the WDC. He accused his team of not supporting him and not wanting him to take the No. 1 to Mclaren. That was ridiculous and merit-less, but I don't think he was totally unreasonable with Mclaren.



Probably sacrificed some reliability for quick speed improvement. They got a ways to go and I wonder if Alonso will be there in 2009. By the way, how safe is Heidfeld's seat? He hasn't exactly set the world on fire this year.

Well, all i know, i can't blame Nick for a poor showing. all i know, the current SC car rule sucks.

and secondly, no great drivers from what i recall complained about their cars to the press, aside from Alain, which earned him a sack after that. Niki Lauda complained, but he promised Enzo Ferrari that he'll get it right and crown then champions, which he did.

my point is, Alonso or not, as a team driver, a leader, u should not complain to the press about it. motivate and settle it within the team is the best. that way, u earn respect, etc.

Schumi, Mika, Kimi, Senna never complained to the press. Senna did issue a 'come and get me' token to Frank Williams in 1993, because Mac lost Honda.

however, i'm not gonna change my mind that Fred is the most complete driver out there, alongside kimi at the moment, and also the whinniest person out there

 

[Centurion]

Uhm as far as I k now Heidfeld is doing pretty well, he just had a bad race that's all. F1 is a roller coaster, everybody has their highs and lows. Kubica's contract ends after this season I wonder when BMW are going to extend it or if they will do it at all.

As for Alonso he is a cry baby because he talks against the team, he sees himself as a separate entity. More over he likes opening his mouth and feeding the press exactly what they want to hear, which is opinions, he says what ever he feels like. He's disloyal and will easilly turn his back on the team if he feels like it. He's an amazing driver though.

 

[PanterroR]

Nick is doing fine, but he can do better and that's what i'm expecting. You have the competitive car - use it! After so many years in F1 and all experience, he should do better.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Well, all i know, i can't blame Nick for a poor showing. all i know, the current SC car rule sucks.

and secondly, no great drivers from what i recall complained about their cars to the press, aside from Alain, which earned him a sack after that. Niki Lauda complained, but he promised Enzo Ferrari that he'll get it right and crown then champions, which he did.

my point is, Alonso or not, as a team driver, a leader, u should not complain to the press about it. motivate and settle it within the team is the best. that way, u earn respect, etc.

Schumi, Mika, Kimi, Senna never complained to the press. Senna did issue a 'come and get me' token to Frank Williams in 1993, because Mac lost Honda.

however, i'm not gonna change my mind that Fred is the most complete driver out there, alongside kimi at the moment, and also the whinniest person out there

The reason "drivers didn't complain to the press" is that there weren't a gazzillion hungry paparazzi/story-spinners mediots, live TV championship coverage (only begun in 1978 with BBC), the INTERNET with a million-billion F1 sites and forums and hundred of millions of fans.

If this would have been the case things would have been very very different.


BTW, the list of "whiners" includes besides Prost:

- N. Mansell (the worst all time whiner; believed he was persecuted)
- Rosberg Snr. (couldn't stand the electronic-active-fuel-management-turbo cars)
- A. Senna (said he was persecuted by Balestre; couldn't stand Ferrari and/or Williams having better electronics then McLaren; upset that Prost vetoed him from having a Williams seat in 93 alltough he did the same to Warwick at Lotus in 86 )
- J. Hunt (couldn't stand the big downforce ground-effect cars; witch McLaren didn't have in 78 and 79)
- G. Villeneuve couldn't stand Pironi's disobediance (of team orders)
- J. Villeneuve couldn't stand grooved tires and electronics



And the list goes on an on and on. I can just imagine some of the titles from the past in today's world:

Disarray at Mercedes: Caracciola accuses Neubauer of sabotage and favoritism twards Lang.

Politics at Auto Union: Achile Varzi vetoes against signing Tazio Nuvolari.

Tazio Nuvolari and Enzo Ferrari at each others throats, Mussolini steps in.

Fangio accuses the Scuderia of sabotage. Enzo Ferrari replies: "You're fired"

Fists flying at Ferrari: Jean Behra accuses the Scuderia of sabotage then gives Ferrari team manager Romolo Tavoni a piece of his mind.

 

[Monster]

A small pic of Heikki's seriously damaged Mclaren. He is extremely lucky to keep his legs. The majority of the front end is gone.

http://imageshack.us

 

[Bartek S.]

http://news.windingroad.com/automotive-news/formula-one-report-barcelona-grand-prix/

 

[Zonda]

Pete posted this on another forum, thought it was amusing

Quotes regarding Kovalainen's crash:

It's a miracle he survived! The car didn't slow down at all!

Impact speed was 130km/h

It wasn't that bad of a crash. Things like that happen

Although it looked nasty, crashes like that aren't uncommon when testing new [fail prone] equipment.

I'm sure he'll be there to give us a hard time in the next race

Shows what Sir Jackie knows

 

[Deleted member 25]

 

[Monster]

That is one massive hole. I am surprised Ferrari didn't put more effort to make it more difficult for others to photograph it.

 

[450SEL6.9]

Uhm as far as I k now Heidfeld is doing pretty well, he just had a bad race that's all. F1 is a roller coaster, everybody has their highs and lows. Kubica's contract ends after this season I wonder when BMW are going to extend it or if they will do it at all.

I don't think Nick has been doing particularly well and Kuby looks consistently better. Nick is a good test driver, but is he going to turn into Pedro De La Rosa?

Kubica must be signed to an extension, no brainer there. He is a gem. I think he is a better car developer, test driver than any of the young guns.

It looks like Alonso won't be in a Ferrari in 2009, but BMW is steadily improving. I don't think they'll win a race this year. If they don't, they could look to a proven winner, WDC to put them over the top.

 

[Sunny]

I don't think Nick has been doing particularly well and Kuby looks consistently better. Nick is a good test driver, but is he going to turn into Pedro De La Rosa?

Kubica must be signed to an extension, no brainer there. He is a gem. I think he is a better car developer, test driver than any of the young guns.

It looks like Alonso won't be in a Ferrari in 2009, but BMW is steadily improving. I don't think they'll win a race this year. If they don't, they could look to a proven winner, WDC to put them over the top.

And what happens when Kubica gives him a run for his money? Threaten to rat on the team? Thanks, no, thanks. As brilliant driver as Alonso is I hope BMW does not recruit him.

 

[Centurion]

I don't think Nick has been doing particularly well and Kuby looks consistently better. Nick is a good test driver, but is he going to turn into Pedro De La Rosa?

Kubica must be signed to an extension, no brainer there. He is a gem. I think he is a better car developer, test driver than any of the young guns.

It looks like Alonso won't be in a Ferrari in 2009, but BMW is steadily improving. I don't think they'll win a race this year. If they don't, they could look to a proven winner, WDC to put them over the top.

Prior to the Spanish GP Heidfeld was actually second in the drivers champion. Sure Kubica is a star shining more brightly but Heidfeld still has skills, though I have to say that Kubica is the one out of the two who has the potential of winning a drivers championship in the future. Heidfeld is a good dependable second driver though.

BMW is a very harmonic team and have worked hard to get where they are now. Bringing Alonso on board would be like putting a bull in a herd of sheep.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Heidfled is a gem and in no way a second driver, thing is that the 2008 car suit kubica style much better than his style, that was the contrary last year.

 

[450SEL6.9]

And what happens when Kubica gives him a run for his money? Threaten to rat on the team? Thanks, no, thanks. As brilliant driver as Alonso is I hope BMW does not recruit him.

Really, too much is made by the press about what happened last year. Alonso gets nearly all the blame, but Hamilton, Dennis, Whitmarsh and the team structure all were part of the equation/problem. Alonso is not the first Mclaren driver to have commented on the team's record on driver management.

As long as the team is respectful of him as a 2x-WDC and all his development work, he'll be fine, though he still won't be the greatest teammate like Ronnie Peterson. Any employee would be problematic if he sees blatant favoritism.

Prior to the Spanish GP Heidfeld was actually second in the drivers champion. Sure Kubica is a star shining more brightly but Heidfeld still has skills, though I have to say that Kubica is the one out of the two who has the potential of winning a drivers championship in the future. Heidfeld is a good dependable second driver though.

BMW is a very harmonic team and have worked hard to get where they are now. Bringing Alonso on board would be like putting a bull in a herd of sheep.

I agree that he won't do much better than be a dependable second driver. Is that what BMW really needs? Kuby is a little young to be a dependable No. 1 that is well-versed in all areas of the car.

 

[Sunny]

Really, too much is made by the press about what happened last year. Alonso gets nearly all the blame, but Hamilton, Dennis, Whitmarsh and the team structure all were part of the equation/problem. Alonso is not the first Mclaren driver to have commented on the team's record on driver management.



I agree that he won't do much better than be a dependable second driver. Is that what BMW really needs? Kuby is a little young to be a dependable No. 1 that is well-versed in all areas of the car.

Yeah may be McLaren is a shitty team and Ron is the Satan himself, but you don't rat on your team. Period. I can perfectly understand people blowing the whistle cause there conscience makes them, but that is not the case here, he threatened to blow it cause he didn't get what he wanted from the team, no matter how justified he is in asking for it. He basically black mailed the team. I doubt any of the top teams principals (besides Flavio) will want him after that.

And what areas of the car is Kubica well versed in and what areas is he not? I don't know either but you are purely speculating here.

 

[450SEL6.9]

Yeah may be McLaren is a shitty team and Ron is the Satan himself, but you don't rat on your team. Period. I can perfectly understand people blowing the whistle cause there conscience makes them, but that is not the case here, he threatened to blow it cause he didn't get what he wanted from the team, no matter how justified he is in asking for it. He basically black mailed the team. I doubt any of the top teams principals (besides Flavio) will want him after that.

And what areas of the car is Kubica well versed in and what areas is he not? I don't know either but you are purely speculating here.

I think alonso was unreasonable with Renault at the end of '06, but not totally unreasonable last year. It's not entirely his fault that his team came into possession of stolen property and then were dishonest about it. If they had come clean from the beginning, that would be that.

What he did wasn't nice, but I didn't think it was realistic to think Alonso would do absolutely nothing to protect his own interests, just so he can be loyal to the team that favored the other guy.

Fittipaldi, Lauda, Prost and others have talked about car development. The feeling is that a driver needs three seasons of actual race experience to be well-equipped to develop, set up and race the car. It was Stewart who talked about the three-years before Hamy clouded his objectivity.

Kuby hasn't had that yet, so I don't think it is purely speculative. I made an assumption that the three-year guideline is at least partly valid. If I were to guess whether a young driver (Kubica, Hamilton, Kovalainen, etc . . . ) is well-versed in all areas, I would say no. Kubica is said to good at testing and technical development, but I don't think Kubica has enough time with race setups.

 

[Sunny]

What he did wasn't nice, but I didn't think it was realistic to think Alonso would do absolutely nothing to protect his own interests.

Blackmailing your own team is beyond not nice. Believe me I was rooting for him last year, but once it was out he was threatening to rat on the team he went down the drain as far as I was concerned and it is a pity cause he is probably the best driver in F1 today.

 

[Centurion]

Alonso still talks against the team while he's at renault and he still enjoys commenting on everything. So what happened at Mclaren isn't the only reason why I perceive Alonso to be a disloyal driver.

 

[Zonda]

This is also a personailty thing. I for one don't like people who blame their loss on someone other than themsleves when it is uncalled for.

Alonso is one hell of a driver, but I tend to think that bad people don't deserve good things. No matter how good they are at what they do.

 

[Sunny]

Yeah, the only way he can redeem his self in the eyes of F1 fans (or at least my eyes) is to stay at Renault and do a good job and may be win the championship back instead of this constant talk of how he could go to Ferrari.