2004 BMW 330 CI or 2004 Audi S4

[nstag8r]

Hi all,

I am looking to purchase one of these two cars. I was originally looking for a 330 ci, but I stumbled upon this s4 and can't stop thinking about it. Obviously the s4 is a lot faster and more powerful than the 330, but I'm looking more at the car to $ ratio. Here are the links to the exact cars I am looking at:

Audi: 2004 Audi S4 4.2 quattro, $20,995 - Cars.com

BMW: 2004 BMW 330 Ci, $14,995 - Cars.com

Which car do you guys think is a better buy, and why. Also list any known problems with either car. All input is appreciated.

Thank you in advance for the advice.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Interesting comparison!

As you mentioned, the key difference is the engine... question is whether it's worth the extra $6,000?
The BMW's inline-6 is no slouch, but of course the S4's V8 is in another league. More power is tempting no doubt, but not sure if it's worth the extra $6K. That could be spent elsewhere, either customizing your car, or paying for other things... or simply putting it away for maintenance issues that will inevitably come by.

Can't say much about issues relating to the Audi as I haven't researched the vehicle, but for the BMW E46 3 series, there is one key issue which you should be made aware of. Here's a link to it...so you can learn what it is, and how to go about getting it fixed if/when it occurs: BMW E46 Subframe Class Action Settlement

Here's another place to get info on any issues relating to the E46 generation 3 series: Info collected that you might like to know - E46Fanatics

If I were in your shoes, between these 2 vehicles I'd probably go for the BMW, but that's mainly because I'm a BMW fan..but also because I don't feel the S4 is worth the extra $6K.
BUT, if you are willing to spend $21,000+ on the S4, then maybe you could look for maybe an '06 330i with around 35,000 miles or so. Just something that's not as old for that little extra piece of mind (that's assuming reliability issues and the cost to fix them is a key concern of yours).

IMO, dollar for dollar the BMW would be my pick here, but if you are able to spend a couple of extra grand, then maybe an '05/'06 330i could be an option.

Good Luck with your decision!

 

[nstag8r]

Interesting comparison!

As you mentioned, the key difference is the engine... question is whether it's worth the extra $6,000?
The BMW's inline-6 is no slouch, but of course the S4's V8 is in another league. More power is tempting no doubt, but not sure if it's worth the extra $6K. That could be spent elsewhere, either customizing your car, or paying for other things... or simply putting it away for maintenance issues that will inevitably come by.

Can't say much about issues relating to the Audi as I haven't researched the vehicle, but for the BMW E46 3 series, there is one key issue which you should be made aware of. Here's a link to it...so you can learn what it is, and how to go about getting it fixed if/when it occurs: BMW E46 Subframe Class Action Settlement

Here's another place to get info on any issues relating to the E46 generation 3 series: Info collected that you might like to know - E46Fanatics

If I were in your shoes, between these 2 vehicles I'd probably go for the BMW, but that's mainly because I'm a BMW fan..but also because I don't feel the S4 is worth the extra $6K.
BUT, if you are willing to spend $21,000+ on the S4, then maybe you could look for maybe an '06 330i with around 35,000 miles or so. Just something that's not as old for that little extra piece of mind (that's assuming reliability issues and the cost to fix them is a key concern of yours).

IMO, dollar for dollar the BMW would be my pick here, but if you are able to spend a couple of extra grand, then maybe an '05/'06 330i could be an option.

Good Luck with your decision!

Thanks for your input, I agree with you and think this is the route that I will take. I generally like BMWs more than Audis. I have never owned either, but speaking with mechanics I have been told BMWs are more reliable. I think I will give up the 90 or so horsepower that I am loosing with the 330 and save the $6,000.

Can anybody think of a reason to go with the s4 over the 330?

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Something kinda like this: 2005 BMW 330Ci, $19,995 - Autotrader.com

Granted the mileage is a bit higher than the S4, but it's the facelifted model of the E46, so many of the initial problems may have been rectified with this year model. In my opinion it looks as good (if not slightly sleeker) than the S4...but it is an Auto.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Can anybody think of a reason to go with the s4 over the 330?

IMO, On paper: No

BUT, you definitely have to check each car out thoroughly. Research on what are some of the key things to look for, because on the outside they both may look pretty with a coat of wax, but if you know what to look for, then you may find things about the car's history that could change the equation.

 

[nstag8r]

I'm looking at the pictures of both and they look very similar. What exactly is the difference between the two? Is the engine the same?

 

[nstag8r]

Here is the carfax report for the bimmer, do you see anything that can be of concern?

CARFAX Vehicle History Report on WBABD53454PD97209

what else can I check?

 

[Beemer B773ER]

I'm looking at the pictures of both and they look very similar. What exactly is the difference between the two? Is the engine the same?

The car I posted includes the BMW Performance Package (coded as: ZHP)..and here's what it adds to the standard 330i:


Performance package (ZHP)

The performance package was an option given to E46 sedans from 2003 to 2005 and coupes from 2004-2006. It included various aesthetic changes over the regular 3 series, as well as functional and mechanical enhancements. It had M badges on each of its Style 135 wheels, with additional M badging on the multi-function steering wheel and atop the 6-speed short throw weighted shifter. In addition to the standard color options, the ZHP was available in the "Motorsport-only" colors Silverstone Grey, Mystic Blue and Imola Red. It received the "M-Tech II" bodykit standard, 18-inch staggered Style 135 wheels, high gloss anthracite window trim, and the coupe received clear turn signals (headlights, side-markers, and tail-lights) instead of the amber turn signals found on the standard 330Ci. The interior had also been modified with half cloth-half alcantara sports seats (optional upgrade to leather), an alcantara-wrapped sports steering wheel (switched to perforated leather in mid-2005), a shorter M-badged shift knob, anthracite colored cloth headliner, and aluminum "cubed" faux-carbon fiber interior trim (available in silver or black). The instrument gauge cluster was also modified with red needles and polished metal trim rings.

In the performance department, the ZHP was equipped with the more aggressive BMW Performance camshafts and a DME tune to increase power from 225 hp (168 kW) to 235 hp (175 kW). The engine redline was also raised from 6,500 rpm to 6,800 rpm to further take advantage of the new power band and higher power output achieved by the new camshafts at higher RPMs. As a result of the higher redline, the nut that fastens the oil pump's sprocket came with threadlocker pre-applied from the factory to keep the nut from falling off. The car also received a shorter final drive ratio which allows for faster acceleration; 3.07 vs. 2.93 for manuals and 3.64 vs. 3.38 for the automatic. Car and Driver magazine track-tested the car, which returned a 0-60 mph time of 5.6 seconds and passed through the 1/4 mile in 14.3 seconds. In 2003 the ZHP was the only non-M 3-series to feature a Getrag 6-speed manual transmission (the Steptronic automatic transmission was not available the first model year (2003), but it was offered from 2004-2006.

Suspension was modified over the standard suspension with firmer springs and dampers, larger anti-roll bars, stronger front control arm ball joints, a lower ride height, and slightly more negative camber. The Style 135 wheels also came equipped with the much stickier compound, Michelin Pilot Sport tires, in a staggered configuration with 225/40-18 tires in the front and 255/35-18 tires in the back.



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I personally think the 330Ci with the Performance Package looks MUCH better than the standard 330Ci. It transform the car into a more sleeker, sexier, sporting machine...yet still maintains a sense of class that many aftermarket kits simply don't have.
Heck, I'd opt for an '06 330Ci with the ZHP package over a 2007 BMW 330i simply because it looks so damn good with the Performance Package (but that's just my IMO ).

Take a second look at the car I posted, ...if you still don't think there's much of a difference over the 330Ci you posted in your original post, then definitely stick with your original white 330Ci and save yourself a decent amount of money.

 

[nstag8r]

Hmmm... thats quite a difference. Something to think about. In your opinion, are the performance upgrades significantly better? Or is it a better idea to save the $5,000.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

Well, I haven't driven either vehicle to be honest, but I was in similar situation about a year ago where I was looking for an '04-'06 330i/Ci with reasonable miles at a mid-teen's price-point. In the end I didn't get a car, but I did do some research on the E46 3er.

In terms of dollar for dollar, if the impressive engine in the S4 isn't worth an extra $6,000, then being honest to you (and also to myself if I were in your position) the mostly cosmetic and minor performance/handling upgrades of the 330Ci with ZHPackage isn't worth an extra $5,000. Of course, it's not easy being so calculated and objective with cars of this nature.
In this situation, I personally would think hard about the 330Ci with ZHP because I'm still in love with it...but I know you're not as obsessed with the ZHPackage as I am, so it probably should be easier for you to cross the 330Ci with ZHP off your shortlist, and pretty much stick to that white 330Ci you posted originially. $5,000 is no small amount, and the same reasoning applied to eliminating the S4 due to its asking price should be applied to the 330Ci with ZHP.

If I were in your shoes and I was able to find a 330Ci with ZHP for about $2,500 more (so at about $17,500), then I'd probably go for the ZHP coz I love it so much...but I know that it's quite difficult to find them, especially at the price you'd like. So stick with looking at 330Ci's that go for around $15,000.

 

[Padi]

Personally I wouldn't even look at the Audi, even the beemers looks would be enough to convince me, especially in white. Other (more) important things are the fuel and other costs, and that extra 6000$ is a big leap.. And you could, as Beemer already said use that money to tune it up. OFC, a big reason why I'm on the beemers side is 'cause I'm a big BMW fan boy myself. On this decision you can't go wrong though, both are great cars

 

[nstag8r]

Thanks a lot guys. I am taking your advice and sticking to the bimmer. I am going to look at it/ test drive it tomorrow, any advice on what I should look for? Any common problems I should watch out for?

Thanks again!

 

[Beemer B773ER]

In terms of inspecting the car, here are a couple of links to help you out:

How to Inspect a Used Car Before Buying | eHow.com





I guess you can't expect a spotless car since it's an '04, but definitely don't just get lost in the 'oh man this car looks so nice, I can just see myself cruisin' around in it' mentality. You gotta keep a clear head and actually try to be the devil's advocate and find all the problems you can. Whatever issues you find, let the salesman know that you've spotted them (firstly so he knows you're not just gonna be an easy-sell coz you're so obsessed with the car..and secondly so that HE knows that you know the flaws of the car, so when it comes time to negotiate price, you can list all the issues you spotted so as to drive a hard bargain!).

Don't give the salesman the impression that this is the car you have chosen. Tell him/her that you have a few other cars on your shopping short list (so he can't corner you with pricing because you have no other options to go to).

Don't tell him that you want to buy this car very very soon (as in, don't tell him that you want to drive away in your new ride by the end of the week)...that way he isn't relentlessly trying to push the sale on you. Give him the impression that you are prepared to wait and to shop around.

Don't act overly impressed with the car.... as in, after you do the test drive, don't act like you just drove your dream car and had the time of your life. If the car does drive well and everything, just act satisfied, but not overly thrilled. If the salesman gets any hint that THIS IS THE CAR you have your heart/mind set on, he/she will have the upper-hand.

Those are just some tips, but if you have time, Google up some other helpful info about inspecting and test-driving a used car.

Good Luck buddy!

 

[nstag8r]

Thanks a lot beemer, great tips. However I added a third car to the mix and it is currently standing out. 2007 BMW 335i: black, 6 speed manual, heated seats, premium sound, cinnamon interior which i'm loving. mileage is 68,000. They want $20,990. Price is steep for the mileage, but if i can get it down to under 19,000 (preferably 18000) ill be happy. I have shopped around and have comparable 335is for around that price with similar mileage to show the salesperson and i will be insistent that he meets that price. What are your thoughts?

The Audi is definitely out of the question. However the 335i has way more options than the 330ci, is significantly faster, and looks way better. If I get it for 18000 like i want, i think it is worth it. And as for the higher mileage on this car, I know that bmws last a long time so i am not worried about that. I just want it for the right price. Let me know what you think.

The link to the car is the following:
Car Connections USA - 2007 BMW 3 Series 335i - Stock# 10BA65351

 

[Padi]

I'd pay the premium for the new model 'cause it's safer, faster, burns less gas, looks better etc. et.c., like a newer model should. And though my favorite colour on a car is white, this black is much easier to keep clean

 

[nstag8r]

So listen to my experience with this dealer. I called to make an appointment on friday to see the car. The lady who picks up says that I can come that day. She calls back 5 minutes later, and says not to come because the car is not there, and does not give me a clear answer of why it is not there. So she talks me into making a new appointment for Monday. So on Saturday, I went to the dealers website to look at the car again (yes i was pretty excited)... to my surprise, the mileage on the car was increased by 4,000 miles, and the price tag was increased by $1,000. But the picture of the odometer reading is still the same, and the listing on cars.com is still the same. How shady is that!!! I refuse to do business with people that shady, and definitely will not be making my appointment to look at that car or any other car there. In fact, I ask everybody to spread the word to not do business with this dealer: carconnectionsusa.com in West Chester, PA.

 

[nstag8r]

On a good note, I did find a very nice 335i at a real BMW dealer:
BMW 335i
Mileage: 43,380
6 spd manual
Premium Package
Sport Package
Cold Weather Package
Clear Carfax
Warranty
$24,695 0.9% interest rate

I know its a little more expensive but it has a warranty and a low interest rate which i believe in the long run will save me money.

Here's the link: 2007 BMW 335 i, $24,695 - Cars.com

Color is beautiful IMO, however i don't get the cinnamon interior that the other car had... oh well.

Let me know your thoughts, and also how much would you pay for a car like this? I'm thinking somewhere around $22,000? Any thoughts?