Discuss What if Toyota’s Hydrogen engine succeeds?

[WBarnes]

In 10 years we will have batteries that are: 2 to 3 times cheaper; 2 to 3 times lighter for the same stored power compared to the current batteries, they will be able to be charged with 500 kW and even more, they will have no content of elements that are hard to extract.
So no chance for any currently known technogy to compete with this.

Based on what? Projections can be iffy. A replacement for Lithium? What are the cables and motors to be made of?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Based on what? Projections can be iffy. A replacement for Lithium? What are the cables and motors to be made of?

Cables are made either of copper or aluminum. The windings of the stator of the motor are made of cables so again copper or aluminum. If you wonder which car uses aluminum-its the latest iteration of the Tesla Model Y. The rotors are different depending on the type of the engine. The induction motor uses steal cage, the pure synchronous motor uses a permanent magnet in most cases neodym, but this is outdated technology and the current synchronos permanent switchable reluctance motors use steal rotor with a minimun amount of neodym magnets.

 

[WBarnes]

Cables are made either of copper or aluminum. The windings of the stator of the motor are made of cables so again copper or aluminum. If you wonder which car uses aluminum-its the latest iteration of the Tesla Model Y. The rotors are different depending on the type of the engine. The induction motor uses steal cage, the pure synchronous motor uses a permanent magnet in most cases neodym, but this is outdated technology and the current synchronos permanent switchable reluctance motors use steal rotor with a minimun amount of neodym magnets.

I guess time will tell. I think many car companies might find hydrogen favourable simple because they make all their money on parts after sale, and there are no parts with BEVs, or very little.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I guess time will tell. I think many car companies might find hydrogen favourable simple because they make all their money on parts after sale, and there are no parts with BEVs, or very little.

BEVs are a nightmare for car manufacturers and that's why they tried to postpone their market penetration as long as possible. Not only spare parts but also servicing is another think from which the establish manufactuters and their dealers make money.

 

[Rolf]

I cant imagine how car mechanics will be feeling right now with all this change from ICE to BEV. They will have to adapt their business to suit the changes in vehicles repairs/maintenance for BEVs.

There will be more business in the future to convert older ICE cars to electric powered. Probably a booming business in future I believe

 

[WBarnes]

I cant imagine how car mechanics will be feeling right now with all this change from ICE to BEV. They will have to adapt their business to suit the changes in vehicles repairs/maintenance for BEVs.

There will be more business in the future to convert older ICE cars to electric powered. Probably a booming business in future I believe

Apparently their was an 1500hp EV Cobra at SEMA 2021, but that probably wasn't exactly the market you were talking about.

@5:35

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[Matski]

I think you may have mis understood my point, my point was not that home chargers are a bad idea for EVs, they're a good idea for EVs, but the reason it's a good idea, and hence 'a thing', is because charging takes so damn long.

Perhaps you misunderstood my response. Being able to put range on your car, without going anywhere out of your way, and at a cheaper rate than you can get if you do go out of your way isn't a red herring, it's an objective benefit irrespective of the time taken. If you could put petrol in your car at home, cheaper than you could at the petrol station, you would do it, it's a no brainer.

If everyone had to drive to a station and park there to recharge, it would be bloody insane, even if there were the same number of charging stations as petrol stations. Hydrogen, like petrol, would not have that problem.

If both these cases were true, you might be right. But the current situation and the situation for the foreseeable future is the opposite. It would be bloody insane trying to fill up a Hyrdogen tank, and, in terms of numbers at least, EV charging infrastructure is approaching fossil fuel, or is at least at the same magnitude.

Believe me, I'm not saying EV's aren't currently limited by charging infrastructure, but the route to that improving is far easier and therefore more likely, than hydrogen.

It can be very bad, trust me. All the things you mentioned are very short duration use and relatively low power, a battery lawnmower (GTech) has to be used for 30 minutes to 1 hour to cut two gardens in my case and it can't do that on one battery, in fact if you leave your lawn more than one week it can't do it at all. It's just plain shit at cutting grass and regularly stalls out when it encounters anything approaching long grass. It's really a lawn-trimmer not a lawnmower. A 3.5hp Hyundai petrol mower on the other hand makes light work of cutting grass, does it in half the time and it takes so long between fill ups that if you fill two 5L jerry cans you're sorted for the year. The only issue with it is that, if you're not careful with the throttle, it can take you for a walk.

I shall avoid the GTech.

 

[Rolf]

Apparently their was an 1500hp EV Cobra at SEMA 2021, but that probably wasn't exactly the market you were talking about.

@5:35

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Some.awesome cars at SEMA this year, that Cobra is out of this world!!!

 

[WBarnes]

Does anyone know what the code is for starting a YT video at x seconds in?

 

[WBarnes]

Perhaps you misunderstood my response. Being able to put range on your car, without going anywhere out of your way, and at a cheaper rate than you can get if you do go out of your way isn't a red herring, it's an objective benefit irrespective of the time taken. If you could put petrol in your car at home, cheaper than you could at the petrol station, you would do it, it's a no brainer.



If both these cases were true, you might be right. But the current situation and the situation for the foreseeable future is the opposite. It would be bloody insane trying to fill up a Hyrdogen tank, and, in terms of numbers at least, EV charging infrastructure is approaching fossil fuel, or is at least at the same magnitude.

Believe me, I'm not saying EV's aren't currently limited by charging infrastructure, but the route to that improving is far easier and therefore more likely, than hydrogen.



I shall avoid the GTech.

But the drawback is that it takes way longer, you have to do it more often, and if you forget and you're about to leave for work you're screwed.

There are safety implications with hydrogen but nothing that can't be overcome. Charging is a different matter, there's the extra strain on the grid to consider. If everyone charged overnight and had the same idea of 'night', it might work but inevitably 'night' charging will overlap at both ends with people trying to use the electricity for kettles, computers, lights and cookers. That's a problem. Then you have the environmental impacts of EV.

The Paradox of "Clean" EVs and the "Dirty" Lithium Mining Business

Is the EV industry hiding some very real "dirty" secrets behind its outward "green" credentials? Let's dissect the paradox.

interestingengineering.com

The Lithium Gold Rush: Inside the Race to Power Electric Vehicles (Published 2021)

A race is on to produce lithium in the United States, but competing projects are taking very different approaches to extracting the vital raw material. Some might not be very green.

www.nytimes.com

Do, it's shite. More of an oversized electric shaver.

 

[WBarnes]

Driving | Life & Style

Expert reviews, news and insights on cars and motoring from The Times and The Sunday Times. Latest on vehicle models, driving tips, industry trends and road safety.

www.driving.co.uk

1016 mile range, 220mph, 2.2s 0-60mph

Cars: Hydrogen Electric XP1 Hypercar - Hyperion

Hyperion is proud to have leading experts in hydrogen fuel cell and aerospace technology.

www.hyperion.inc

 

[WBarnes]

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[J.E]

Toyota is firing on all directions.

• Hybrid;
• Plug-in Hybrid;
• Flex Hybrid;
• Hydrogen Fuel Cell;
• Hydrogen Internal Combustion;
• Hydrogen Hybrid;
• Battery EV;
• Solid State Battery EV.

 

[Sunny]

Ok you're on, someone make this post a sticky.

@KiwiRob, 2 years ago we had a bet, if Toyota can sell 30k Mirais or not in 2021. Here is the screen grab and link to the posts.



Well, 2021 is over now and Toyota published its detailed results yesterday. You can find it here - https://global.toyota/en/company/profile/production-sales-figures/. In 2021, Toyota sold a grand total of 5918 FCEVs globally. Which of course is far less than 30k.

I will pass on my winnings, but feel free to donate it to Humane Society or another similar charity.

 

[WBarnes]

Was looking at the Apricale in Evo this week, I have to say that hydrogen seems to offer weight benefits relative to BEV.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Renault (esp. Alpine for racing) has not given up on hydrogen as well

 

[Matski]

The ever optimistic Jim Glickenhaus wants to race the Baja in a Hydrogen Boot...

 

[A.P.]

I actually had an opportunity to check out their BEV SUV last week.

Pre-production car, didn't impress much... quite ugly in person. One take away is that it was better put together than 99% of Teslas.

 

[J.E]

This Corolla Cross Hybrid has an electric motor and an internal combustion engine that runs on petrol or ethanol.

 

[J.E]

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