Phaeton Volkswagen Phaeton Picture Thread

[SDNR]

The main reason i think this car has never sold well is because VW has kept it in the shade with the A8 after all everybody wants a badge when spending this kind of money and the 4 rings simply work better.

But let's not forget that Audi had similar badge problems not so long ago. As I said in another thread, VW have to go up market with their brand because it is simply becoming increasingly difficult and less viable for them to compete in the middle-market. VW have proved they can build one of the best cars in the world, so why would they not strive to build the best when they have the skills to do so?

I find it quite extraordinary when I read comments saying that VW should lower its standards -- well I personally hate mediocrity, Ferdinand Piëch is a man of extremely high principles and expectations -- an idealist and a perfectionist. Only excellence is good enough for him -- what can possibly be wrong with that?

 

[Merc1]

The only thing wrong is that VW can't go upmarket without running into Audi, and it simply doesn't make sense for them to compete with themselves like that. VW is going to have to lower something so they can become more cost competitive, otherwise the Asians are going to kill them in the U.S. market in particular. For 2008 they've stripped fog lights and leather from ALL Jetta, Rabbit and New Bettle models. A desperate attempt to squeeze out more sales and make some kind of profit. I'd read where VW will move the next Jetta and Passat down a notch, in short bringing them in line (or closer) with other cars in their respective classes. To move the Passat down to current Jetta level pricing (not exactly but close to) and to move the Jetta downward is the plan, and that is what is needed (at least in the U.S.) not another pointless show of (excellent) luxury car engineering.

A luxury VW will never sell in the U.S. or anywhere else really. Audi is overcoming this problem with a host of things, not in the least of which is a premium dealership experience and a entire lineup of premium/luxury products, two things VW doesn't come close to matching. Another Phaeton is not the answer for VW, a more fun to drive, better looking car with a more interesting interior that is safer than a Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Ford/Hyundai for a slight premium is VW's niche not trying to muscle in on the luxury car ranks.

If VW was really serious about the U.S. market they'd open a plan here. Hell it could be a shared facility with Audi. That way all this currency noise is cancelled and costs would come down for sure then. VW frustrates more than any other company. If they were a person they'd be the kind of person you just want to shake them and say get your !@#$%^& life together!

M

 

[SDNR]

The only thing wrong is that VW can't go upmarket without running into Audi, and it simply doesn't make sense for them to compete with themselves like that. VW is going to have to lower something so they can become more cost competitive, otherwise the Asians are going to kill them in the U.S. market in particular.

Exactly ....but I would suggest that battle has already been won by the Asians.

For 2008 they've stripped fog lights and leather from ALL Jetta, Rabbit and New Bettle models. A desperate attempt to squeeze out more sales and make some kind of profit.

Yeah -- and it looks pretty pathetic compared to what the Asian competitors can offer for the same money.

I'd read where VW will move the next Jetta and Passat down a notch, in short bringing them in line (or closer) with other cars in their respective classes.

watch as their competotors move up a notch.

To move the Passat down to current Jetta level pricing (not exactly but close to) and to move the Jetta downward is the plan, and that is what is needed (at least in the U.S.) not another pointless show of (excellent) luxury car engineering.

VW will not exist in 20 years if they don't strive to offer superior products to their Asian competitors.

A luxury VW will never sell in the U.S. or anywhere else really.

I don't agree.

Audi is overcoming this problem with a host of things, not in the least of which is a premium dealership experience and a entire lineup of premium/luxury products, two things VW doesn't come close to matching.

Sure .......it is going to take some time but I do not underestimate VWs potential -- it actually is a stronger brand than Audi.

Another Phaeton is not the answer for VW, a more fun to drive, better looking car with a more interesting interior that is safer than a Toyota/Honda/Nissan/Ford/Hyundai for a slight premium is VW's niche not trying to muscle in on the luxury car ranks.

Sure, but it will come at a premium price.

If VW was really serious about the U.S. market they'd open a plan here. Hell it could be a shared facility with Audi. That way all this currency noise is cancelled and costs would come down for sure then. VW frustrates more than any other company. If they were a person they'd be the kind of person you just want to shake them and say get your !@#$%^& life together!

Well that is a good point

 

[CarGuy]

Well my point is basically that I always felt like VW had gotten cocky trying to slip under the radar a car very similar to the A8 and hopefully get some sales going from ignorant idiot bastards that are loyal to the brand and don't know and/or don't pay attention to the outside world(competition, VW merging etc)

PS. Mark I noticed that in ur all stars u included the GT500KR (lmao) care to comment?

 

[SDNR]

Well my point is basically that I always felt like VW had gotten cocky trying to slip under the radar a car very similar to the A8 and hopefully get some sales going from ignorant idiot bastards that are loyal to the brand and don't know and/or don't pay attention to the outside world(competition, VW merging etc)

Ridiculous comment.

 

[SDNR]

Well my point is basically that I always felt like VW had gotten cocky trying to slip under the radar a car very similar to the A8 and hopefully get some sales going from ignorant idiot bastards that are loyal to the brand and don't know and/or don't pay attention to the outside world(competition, VW merging etc)

Ridiculous comment.

 

[CarGuy]

do you have to say it twice Einstein?

 

[SDNR]

Ahh ...that was an accident ....but it reinforces the point.

 

[Merc1]

Mark I noticed that in ur all stars u included the GT500KR (lmao) care to comment?

Yes, it is an awesome car for what it is, a American muscle car throwback.



It isn't always about German cars.

M

 

[Merc1]

Sure .......it is going to take some time but I do not underestimate VWs potential -- it actually is a stronger brand than Audi.

I just don't see it Rob. True, VW is a strong brand known all over the world, moreso than Audi, but it is that very same recognition that dictates and prevents them from selling luxury cars. They're known for inexpensive cars. No one is going to seriously consider a VW priced like a Mercedes/BMW or Audi. In VW's case their brand recognition is dual-edged sword when it comes to trying to push luxury cars, especially here in the U.S. It just isn't going to work.

M

 

[CarGuy]

The only reason that I think rob has so much faith in VW is because of the Bugatti Veyron. It only took them 5 years to build it. Rob are u really that moonstruck?

 

[SDNR]

The thing is Marcus, VWs traditional competitors: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc., are all offering excellent products that VW cannot match on price -- those Asian car makers are continually moving the bar higher and higher -- middle-market cars today have the specs of luxury cars of a decade ago -- VW is only responding to market forces -- I am not denying that they have some problems to overcome, but I'm just not so adamant that they will never be taken seriously as the producer of very fine luxury vehicles.

 

[SDNR]

The only reason that I think rob has so much faith in VW is because of the Bugatti Veyron. It only took them 5 years to build it. Rob are u really that moonstruck?

CarGuy, the thing is, I recognize excellence when I see it. The Phaeton was superior to the Mercedes W220 in many ways when it was launched -- I would suggest you are judging the product entirely by your preconceptions of its badge.

 

[Merc1]

The thing is Marcus, VWs traditional competitors: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc., are all offering excellent products that VW cannot match on price -- those Asian car makers are continually moving the bar higher and higher -- middle-market cars today have the specs of luxury cars of a decade ago -- VW is only responding to market forces -- I am not denying that they have some problems to overcome, but I'm just not so adamant that they will never be taken seriously as the producer of very fine luxury vehicles.

I see what you're saying, but I think VW can make it by building what I stated earlier, for a smaller price premium than they're asking now. For instance a loaded Camry or Accord goes for about 28-30K, but a loaded Passat goes for 38K, that is simply too much of a premium. Now if they could shrink that premium down to 4-6K instead of 8-10K they'd sell a lot more Passats, IMO. The Jetta's pricing is even more out of whack with its competitors. We all know that VW can build a luxury car, but in doing so what becomes of Audi? It would be like Mercedes trying to build luxury Smarts. I just don't see the point of it when they've got Audi, who is making leaps and bounds daily.

One mintue I think VW is going the route I have suggest, as they are redesigning the Golf/Rabbit to be cheaper, but then there is still talk of another Phaeton and think I think they're still lost. It seems they're going to try to be all things to all people, a "peoples" car. Fine and nice, but a 70K VW just ain't gonna sell, at least not here in the U.S. with VW's current crummy dealers and non-luxury car experience.

M

 

[SDNR]

Part of the problem is the outrageous cost of producing their cars in Germany. Do they assemble the Passats in the US?

 

[Merc1]

Part of the problem is the outrageous cost of producing their cars in Germany. Do they assemble the Passats in the US?

Nope, that is why I say they need to do a factory here again. The right way this time. The last effort was an utter failure. Building the Jetta and all its platform mates here would be a smart move. The Passat too.

M

 

[SDNR]

Nope, that is why I say they need to do a factory here again.
M

Oh, you did too ...sorry

 

[Mr. M]

Well my point is basically that I always felt like VW had gotten cocky trying to slip under the radar a car very similar to the A8 and hopefully get some sales going from ignorant idiot bastards that are loyal to the brand and don't know and/or don't pay attention to the outside world(competition, VW merging etc)

PS. Mark I noticed that in ur all stars u included the GT500KR (lmao) care to comment?

I think having extensive experience in both the Phaeton and the A8, I can comment well here.

The Phaeton is not a similar car to the A8. It may look a little like the A8, and it may have some buttons that look like they came from the A8, but there are overwhelming differences between the two cars that set them apart.

For instance, the Phaeton's steel body is one of the most rigid in the world - 40,000Nm of tensile strength if I recall correctly - a figure that outstrips even that of the Phantom. The A8 on the other hand uses the Audi Space Frame, one of the few cars in the world employing a full aluminium chassis.

Next, the Phaeton's upholstery is holstered by Poltrona Frau, a well respected Italian leather manufacturer. I don't know where the A8 gets its leather. The Phaeton also shares more electronics than the Bentley Continental Range rather than the A8 - look at the computer for instance.

I am not a loyal fan of VW - but I was made one after seeing the Phaeton. The Phaeton does not rely on its fans to sell, it creates new fans everytime. See VW Vortex forums, the Phaeton owners there swear by their cars, and so do I. It's an understatement to say that the Phaeton is a stunning achievement.

So what it can't sell? Let those who can't appreciate it for what is, lose out on all the fun.

The thing is Marcus, VWs traditional competitors: Toyota, Honda, Subaru, etc., are all offering excellent products that VW cannot match on price -- those Asian car makers are continually moving the bar higher and higher -- middle-market cars today have the specs of luxury cars of a decade ago -- VW is only responding to market forces -- I am not denying that they have some problems to overcome, but I'm just not so adamant that they will never be taken seriously as the producer of very fine luxury vehicles.

It's rising production costs against value-addedness here. While I do think the Phaeton is a viable option for VW to go upmarket, why not put some of its inventions on the Phaeton into the Passat and Golf for instance, so that its price can be justified? Maybe that'd work.

Nope, that is why I say they need to do a factory here again. The right way this time. The last effort was an utter failure. Building the Jetta and all its platform mates here would be a smart move. The Passat too.

M

Yes, a factory in the US, what are they waiting for?!

 

[ree]

After all the discussion and text, some pictures again...

[/URL]

 

[Bruce]

Love the alloys.