The True King of 4-Door Coupes...

[footie]

Hatchback on a "4-Door Coupe" makes NO sense, and looks so counterproductive. A "4 Door Coupe" is supposed to look and resemble nothing close to a Wagon, and it's not supposed to look like some utility/family car when the trunk is open. Nothing really sexy about that. It's a style>substance car, so a small trunk, and minimal rear headroom is appropriate.

If we were to take this to the letter then probably only the Aston fits that set of requests because unlike the rest it's the only one which looks like a four door version of the original which is a genuine coupe, the CLS and CC look like slopey version of their saloon counterparts, as for the A7 and Panamera well they look more like slopey fastbacks which is probably their right description.

My argument is that since Merc invented the category with a car that really doesn't meet those requirement properly it leave it up to each manufacturer to come up with their interpertation and in all honesty I think if it is practical and looks the part then all the better.

 

[Sunny]

Says who?
If you wanted style at the expense of practicality, why not just get a 2-door coupe?

Good point. I always thought this "4 door coupe" thing was for people who can't either freaking make up their mind or are too henpecked.

 

[K-A]

Exactly! I would say the CC and CLS capture that concept well. I guess Porsche and Aston decided to do something like the CLS, but with a twist.

BTW..that comparison has the old CLS.

Agreed. I think the "4-Door Coupe" nameplate will start getting so sloppy, it'll eventually die out. For example, the Panamera and A7 look nothing like a CLS (the inventor of the genre), and to me, look as much like utility wagons from the back, as they do Coupe's (actually, more-so), which is the antithesis of a Coupe.

Also, the new CLS looks less like an actual Coupe than the first one, has larger windows, is a little taller, etc. It seems the genre is still defining itself, yet at the same time, is becoming closer to simply the modern style of a 4-Door *Sedan* (what all these cars technically are anyway).

Says who?
If you wanted style at the expense of practicality, why not just get a 2-door coupe?

Says the actual genre name I guess.

"4-Door Coupe" says it best. It's a COUPE (again, antithesis of a utility type of car), and it's meant for those who don't need the utility of a Sedan, but want 4-Doors. It's a fashion over utility/practicality genre.

Now, this is another reason why I think the genre name will eventually die out. It makes no sense, isn't technically fitting, and there isn't a clear definition or line as to what it represents, or who's valid to be in it. If there is anyone who can tell you exactly what it is, it's M-B and the CLS, as they coined the term.

 

[Guibo]

Also, the new CLS looks less like an actual Coupe than the first one, has larger windows, is a little taller, etc. It seems the genre is still defining itself, yet at the same time, is becoming closer to simply the modern style of a 4-Door *Sedan* (what all these cars technically are anyway).

Says the actual genre name I guess.

"4-Door Coupe" says it best. It's a COUPE (again, antithesis of a utility type of car), and it's meant for those who don't need the utility of a Sedan, but want 4-Doors. It's a fashion over utility/practicality genre.

Now, this is another reason why I think the genre name will eventually die out. It makes no sense, isn't technically fitting, and there isn't a clear definition or line as to what it represents, or who's valid to be in it. If there is anyone who can tell you exactly what it is, it's M-B and the CLS, as they coined the term.

If the genre is still defining itself, then whom can we look to for a definitive answer on what it should be? The genre?
Absolutely, I agree these are technically sedans.
MB may have coined the term, but the concept has been around for decades. And this is what happens when you throw traditional norms out the window. It opens up all kinds of doors (no pun intended) and anyone can define anything the way they want.
IMO, coupe doesn't have to be antithesis of utility. In my mind (and I'll bet MB would agree), coupe describes a style. But once you've introduced the concept of 4 doors (a deliberate nod to practicality) then you're saying style isn't necessarily of utmost importance anymore. Utility need no longer be antithetical to the concept. Anyone wanting absolute style over substance would buy a true coupe instead.
There have been plenty of coupes with hatchback practicality: P1800, Cayman, M Coupe, Corvette, Viper, Jag XK, Nissan Z, 8C Competizione, CLC Coupe, Quattro Concept. Speaking of which, and maybe you'll disagree, I'm glad they made it into a genuine hatch instead of a hatch-looking coupe like its spiritual ancestor. I'm a firm believer of style and substance, whenever it's reasonable to have both.

 

[K-A]

If the genre is still defining itself, then whom can we look to for a definitive answer on what it should be? The genre?
Absolutely, I agree these are technically sedans.
MB may have coined the term, but the concept has been around for decades. And this is what happens when you throw traditional norms out the window. It opens up all kinds of doors (no pun intended) and anyone can define anything the way they want.
IMO, coupe doesn't have to be antithesis of utility. In my mind (and I'll bet MB would agree), coupe describes a style. But once you've introduced the concept of 4 doors (a deliberate nod to practicality) then you're saying style isn't necessarily of utmost importance anymore. Utility need no longer be antithetical to the concept. Anyone wanting absolute style over substance would buy a true coupe instead.
There have been plenty of coupes with hatchback practicality: P1800, Cayman, M Coupe, Corvette, Viper, Jag XK, Nissan Z, 8C Competizione, CLC Coupe, Quattro Concept. Speaking of which, and maybe you'll disagree, I'm glad they made it into a genuine hatch instead of a hatch-looking coupe like its spiritual ancestor. I'm a firm believer of style and substance, whenever it's reasonable to have both.

Well said.

I'm just a bit prejudiced against Wagon/Hatch style backs (unless incorporated flawlessly, and not noticeably, like the Aston V8 Vantage, for example, as when I look at that, I don't really know if it's a hatch or not, or the thought just doesn't come up), for some reason (personal stylistic taste obviously).

 

[Deleted member 1071]

IMHO, the CLS is the car that almost unconditionally adheres to the coupe theme. I warrant my observation on the basis of the CLS' sheer extravagance. I also find the CLS and Panamera the least derivative. The Passat CC and Audi A7 remain in close proximity to their respective traditional sedan siblings, interiors being almost identical. The Rapide appears to be a stretched DB9 (not necessarily a bad thing, really).

 

[footie]

IMHO, the CLS is the car that almost unconditionally adheres to the coupe theme. I warrant my observation on the basis of the CLS' sheer extravagance. I also find the CLS and Panamera the least derivative. The Passat CC and Audi A7 remain in close proximity to their respective traditional sedan siblings, interiors being almost identical. The Rapide appears to be a stretched DB9 (not necessarily a bad thing, really).

I see your point Jimmy and when viewed that way I would have to agree, but to most normal people the interior of the Panamera is identical to that of the Cayenne which we know it isn't but the similarities are uncanny. Plus when Porsche offer different varieties of the Panamera which will include a stretched version then this argument for it at least might not hold water.

 

[Michael]

IMHO, the CLS is the car that almost unconditionally adheres to the coupe theme. I warrant my observation on the basis of the CLS' sheer extravagance. I also find the CLS and Panamera the least derivative. The Passat CC and Audi A7 remain in close proximity to their respective traditional sedan siblings, interiors being almost identical. The Rapide appears to be a stretched DB9 (not necessarily a bad thing, really).

Jimmy, I agree with you and good point. I too think the CLS is the only one that sticks to the whole coupe theme and retains it in it's looks. From it's inception it had that coupe-style that just stuck out when you would look at the car. I also agree on the a7 comment that it retains a lOt of the Audi sedan style, which is why I think it look bad with that out-of-no-where non-flowing hatchback.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Audi was compelled to sacrifice style in favor of function regarding the A7s' roofline. On the Sportback Concept car, the characteristics of a bonafide coupe were more pronounced. On the production model however, the area where the rear passengers' heads would be situated was raised by several millimeters. Although that increase in height would sound minimal, it makes a load of difference with regard to a cars' aesthetics. And it is responsible for the somewhat hunchbacked appearance (from some angles) of the A7. I also found the head-and taillamps on the Sportback Concept far more attractive than those on the production model.

 

[GTA45E]

If you havn`t seen the Porsche Panamera in the metal you need to go to your local Auto Show! This car is nice and the interior is really stunning. I have changed my opinion about the body style. Porsche really did a good job I think, in keeping head clearance at the rear.

Pictures don`t do the body style justice at all.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

^My My...looks like someone stopped by their local Porsche dealership and had a "OMG WOW" moment.

 

[rollo]

If you havn`t seen the Porsche Panamera in the metal you need to go to your local Auto Show! This car is nice and the interior is really stunning. I have changed my opinion about the body style. Porsche really did a good job I think, in keeping head clearance at the rear.

Pictures don`t do the body style justice at all.

Agree 100%.

It is much wider and lower than photo's project. I walked around a dark blue turbo last week in Florida while vacationing with the family, very impressive car in the metal. And you don't see them all over the place either.

 

[martinbo]

Ok, so who here has seen a Rapide in the flesh? It's almost impossibly pretty.

 

[GTA45E]

Agree 100%.

It is much wider and lower than photo's project. I walked around a dark blue turbo last week in Florida while vacationing with the family, very impressive car in the metal. And you don't see them all over the place either.

Man is it ever wide and low!
Tell me you got a chance to sit inside to inspect that fantastic design and materials, Off the chain!
I also like how the rear end tapers off... it looks like a mess in photos but in real life it`s a totally different story. At the end of the Auto-Show I had to go back and take another look at the Panamera, wow! I`m sold!!!

(I didn`t have to pay to go to the Auto Show this year. I got payed to go and took all the time I wanted.)

 

[Merc1]

The Panamera is one of those cars that looks good only in full dress, turbo form. Even then it isn't pretty. Yes the interior is stunning, but that rear is just plain ugly in the S and base versions. You have to have a Turbo with some big wheels and the right color. All IMO of course.


M

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Yes it's a little too chubby.

 

[Merc1]

Its ugly.


M

 

[DexterMorgan]

This thread is an interesting read. I don't consider the Panamera a 4-dr Coupe in the slightest. I think it is an odd-looking 5-dr hatchback trying hard to be a sedan.

My job affords me the luxury of being around MB's, BMW's, Audi's and Porsche's all day and the Panamera is the least appealing car when I look at the stables of all these brands combined.

Note to Porscheaphiles: I understand looks are subjective but the Panamera is beyond subjective.

 

[K-A]

The Panamera is one of those cars that looks good only in full dress, turbo form. Even then it isn't pretty. Yes the interior is stunning, but that rear is just plain ugly in the S and base versions. You have to have a Turbo with some big wheels and the right color. All IMO of course.


M

I was gonna say the same thing. I've seen some Pana's look hot, but they were FULLY decked out, and really, they needed some aftermarket mods to look great (opposite of how M-B, or BMW, etc. works).

Pana's are EVERYWHERE out here, and such a "unique" design, has quickly become kind of boring and tiring to look (the price a design plays for being "unique" once, then becoming common).

The front half looks great to me, especially in full trim, but that back end looks so heavy, bloated, wagon-y, and boring.

Also, I really don't consider it to be a 4-Door Coupe at all.

I saw a Rapide in person, on the road, it looks very sharp, extremely exotic, and practically looks like a bonafide Concept-Car on the streets. It's not really my style, and doesn't grab me so much, and I think that the length and extra door looks more awkward and unnecessary in the profile, as it just begs for proper Coupe proportions IMO, taking the whole design and silhouette into account.

 

[donkeykong]

If you havn`t seen the Porsche Panamera in the metal you need to go to your local Auto Show! This car is nice and the interior is really stunning. I have changed my opinion about the body style. Porsche really did a good job I think, in keeping head clearance at the rear.

Pictures don`t do the body style justice at all.

Glad to see some else share my feelings about this car to me it's gorgeous.