X1 The new BMW X1 xDrive28i with BMW TwinPower Turbo


The BMW X1 is a line of cars produced by BMW since 2009. A subcompact luxury crossover class, the first-generation X1 was based on the E90 3 Series and offered rear-wheel drive layout as standard. The second-generation X1 marked the switch to a front-wheel-drive-based layout using the UKL2 platform shared with the BMW 2 Series Active Tourer and the Mini Countryman.
I think this is a great engine from consumption and performance point but :eusa_dancI am very sorry that good old NA I6 are dying. :eusa_doh:

I think that between thin engine and 4.0 from new 6er there is enough space to put NA I6 with 279PS-286PS. :eusa_pray

If I am remembering correctly when F01 was launched there was a talk about 730i, with around 286PS, it
Would be great if that would happen at least for enthusiast and lovers of NA I6. :eusa_pray:usa7uh:

A do not understand why did BMW few weeks ago introduced X3 28i with I6 instead with this new 4 cylinder engine? :t-banghea
 
Don't y'all find it very interesting how we seem to be in a phase in the automotive timeline where, from an engineering perspective there's less and less differentiation between competitors? If these two engines were any more similar, they'd be made in the same factory!

Hmm, but an engine is much more than some specs and terms on a PDF sheet. In the real world, I have no doubt, whatsoever, that this new engine from BMW is superior to the VAG engine in every single possible way. Like it has always been basicly.
I so cannot wait to see tests! Too bad Audi and MB don't have any competition for the X1, the first car with this new engine.


28i for a 4 pot turbo? I thought that was for a detuned 3.0 straight 6? You need a degree in BMW marketing BS to tell what is under the hood nowadays...

Whoa, whoa, whoa....it's just as if I am reading a post from 2002 or something. You're late man, this is nothing new.

LOL yes of course. :eusa_doh:

I promise I do know the difference between the N52, 53, 54 and 55!

Hmmm...as your teacher and wise old mentor...I will give you the benefit of the doubt for this time my young apprentice! BUT, make sure to not make mistakes like this again ;) ;) ;)

BTW, Martin, I have question man:

In post number 14, you say that the Audi 2.0T has max torque (350 Nm) at 4200 rpm.
The BMW 2.0 has 350 at 1250 rpm.....that's like a major difference....You happen to have torque curves or something? And what does it mean in real life? BMW's torque curve is pretty flat again probably, with all torque available at almost idle speed...
 
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Hey Martin, since we're on the topic of turbo's...and since you're a repeat owner of turbo-powered Subaru's, can you give a brief outline of the difference between Subaru's approach to turbo's and that of BMW and their turbo engines (I'm guessing you've only really driven an N54 powered turbo-BMW?) ?

I ask because Subaru is more focused on sporty characteristics than your average Toyota, Honda, VW, etc... so they'd be a better match to compare with BMW's approach to sporty turbo engines.
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa....it's just as if I am reading a post from 2002 or something. You're late man, this is nothing new.

I guess it's possible (since you spend most of your life getting overexcited about BMW products) that you are aware of some BMW models that I am not. So please educate me, show me 2 BMW models with completely different engine sizes and the same nomenclature (like 28i) from 2002.
 
^ Not from 2002, but it's happened before: E60 520i started with an inline-6 and was later replaced by an inline-4.


Best regards,
south
 
I guess it's possible (since you spend most of your life getting overexcited about BMW products) that you are aware of some BMW models that I am not. So please educate me, show me 2 BMW models with completely different engine sizes and the same nomenclature (like 28i) from 2002.

123d, 740i, X5 4.0d....but there really is a lot. And it has been going on for some time already. But it's stupid, I'll give you that. I mean, 335i would have been better as 330is or something like that. Or 330ti. Meh.
 
As long as these I4-turbos don't completely replace the engines that BMW is probably most known for, the legendary naturally-aspirated straight-6s, I'm all for it. :cool:

The engine itself looks somewhat puny in the pictures, it's a bit like a woman with small chest trying fill up a large bra...

b89e9e0c22498f7cf4c222d24c969c62.webp
 
As long as these I4-turbos don't completely replace the engines that BMW is probably most known for, the legendary naturally-aspirated straight-6s, I'm all for it. :cool:

They will completely replace them.
The only I6 engines left will have the TwinTurbo or TwinScroll turbo tech. That includes the next gen M3.

No NA BMW engines more very soon.
I have to get myself a 3 door 130i ASAP!!!! And never sell it again. With M pack btw ;)
 
I hope we will soon see FI engines with a rising topend untill very close to the fuel cut off. The low to midrange torque engines are all well and good for your daily commute, but they do lack a lot when it comes to enjoyment.

Just secured a E30 320i, by the way. Better get those I6, while the gettings good. :)
 
The low to midrange torque engines are all well and good for your daily commute, but they do lack a lot when it comes to enjoyment.

That is the truth, but the other ugly truth is the manufacturers are pushing out more and more SUVs not to mention heavier cars. High low to midrange torque offered by turbo charged engines are fit for the application of moving these cars fast under normal driving conditions.

BMW's immense success with the N54 and N55 engines is all justification they need for purging NA inline-6 engine. The 135i and 335i models have been widely adopted and give BMW the blessings to provide their customers with the similar engine characteristics in a smaller package.
 
Hmm, but an engine is much more than some specs and terms on a PDF sheet. In the real world, I have no doubt, whatsoever, that this new engine from BMW is superior to the VAG engine in every single possible way. Like it has always been basicly.
I so cannot wait to see tests! Too bad Audi and MB don't have any competition for the X1, the first car with this new engine.

Whilst there's no denying that BMW are master engine builders, BMW are very late to the 4 cylinder turbo petrol party. Frankly, failures recorded in VAG's service call knowledge base that have long since been archived, BMW has yet to see with this new engine. I have absolutely no doubt that the VAG 2.0T will be the more reliable unit purely by virtue of the numbers of them out there, the millions of kms clocked up by them and the vast base of incremental improvement over time. Turbocharged engines: more finicky and more prone to failure than NA engines.

Hmmm...as your teacher and wise old mentor...I will give you the benefit of the doubt for this time my young apprentice! BUT, make sure to not make mistakes like this again ;) ;) ;)

Forgive me my old master - I'll pay more attention in future. :D May the Forced Induction be with you...

BTW, Martin, I have question man:

In post number 14, you say that the Audi 2.0T has max torque (350 Nm) at 4200 rpm.
The BMW 2.0 has 350 at 1250 rpm.....that's like a major difference....You happen to have torque curves or something? And what does it mean in real life? BMW's torque curve is pretty flat again probably, with all torque available at almost idle speed...

Hmph, I simply copied and pasted the tech data out of carfolio's information. I didn't notice the max torque @ rpm error. Like many turbocharged engines the 2.0TFSI actually has a torque curve plateau from low rpm across to somewhere in the region of 4000-5000 rpm. This is very typical and indicative of the carefully controlled boost pressure by the engine management system acting on the turbocharger wastegate. Here is the proper 2.0 TFSI graph:

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As you can see it too spools up very early - only 250 rpm later than the twin-scroll BMW unit. So in terms of the real-world engine response, I'm prepared to wager that what amounts to an on-paper pissing contest will be much harder to separate in real world driving.

Hey Martin, since we're on the topic of turbo's...and since you're a repeat owner of turbo-powered Subaru's, can you give a brief outline of the difference between Subaru's approach to turbo's and that of BMW and their turbo engines (I'm guessing you've only really driven an N54 powered turbo-BMW?) ?

I ask because Subaru is more focused on sporty characteristics than your average Toyota, Honda, VW, etc... so they'd be a better match to compare with BMW's approach to sporty turbo engines.

Wow, now that's a really difficult series of questions to ask in one go, so I'm going to do it in a summary point form:

1. At the highest fundamental level of the concept, both the Subaru and the BMW engine use exhaust gas to drive a turbine and a compressor encased in a housing affixed to the exhaust manifold. The pressurised inlet air is then cooled for volumetric efficiency by being passed through an intercooler whereafter it is directed to the inlet manifold.

Because the air is compressed and is cooler, it's more dense and therefore has more oxygen per cylinder volume. More oxygen means you can burn more fuel more efficiently creating a more forceful explosion within the combustion chamber. So yes, don't let anyone tell you otherwise - a turbocharged engine of X capacity uses much more fuel (and gets more performance) than a normally aspirated engine of the same capacity at most throttle loads. Think NA MINI 1.6 vs 1.6 Turbo in the Cooper S.

So, whether it's Renaultsport, VAG, BMW or Subaru the fundamental approach is the same.

2. When you start analysing the detail it gets much more complicated. The primary difference is in the engine layouts. Subaru chooses to use a flat four engine in conjunction with its proprietary AWD system. BMW's engine is an inline 4. This immediately has all sort of implications in terms of differences in packaging. BMW can locate their turbo closer to all exhuast outlets compared to Subaru who in turn place their intercooler closer to the inlet side. And so on...

Even at a detail level, though, we're seeing more and more similar trains of thought among the car makers; Subaru's Boxer engines have always had a wide bore and a short stroke (oversquare) but now, for the new generation FB series engines, they've moved to a narrow-bore, long-stroke (undersquare) layout much the same as anyone else who's in the 2.0 litre turbo game. Why? Well, a narrower bore makes for a shorter engine which is hence easier to package and a longer stroke gives better torque - especially at low rpm. It won't be long before we see a common recipe at this end of the market: 2.0 litre, intercooled turbocharger, direct injection, undersquare, alloy-block engines.

3. Subaru uses both regular single scroll turbos and twin-scroll turbos depending on the model and country. The Japanese-only WRX STI Spec C uses a twin-scroll 2.0 litre engine that makes 235 kW and 422 Nm. This, in my opinion, is the greatest four cylinder engine in the world. I wonder if BMW's M-Division are going to put their magic to work on this new 4 pot turbo? ;) I'd bet you a case of your... oh wait you don't drink alcohol. ;)

4. Here's the next thing; the engines in my WRX and Forrie XT are mechanically identical. And yet, they feel quite different in terms of their power delivery on the road. These engines have different software mappings to create different power delivery characteristics depending on the intended application of the car. So, my WRX has more turbo lag down low but doesn't run out of puff as much as the Forester does at higher revs.

It's amazing - the profound effect of computerisation on the character and behaviour of a modern turbocharged engine. I believe that in the near future it'll be the software engineers' prowess and sophistication of the engine mapping logic that will as much determine the output capabilities of any turbo engine as would the actual mechanical engineering.
 
Whilst there's no denying that BMW are master engine builders, BMW are very late to the 4 cylinder turbo petrol party. Frankly, failures recorded in VAG's service call knowledge base that have long since been archived, BMW has yet to see with this new engine. I have absolutely no doubt that the VAG 2.0T will be the more reliable unit purely by virtue of the numbers of them out there, the millions of kms clocked up by them and the vast base of incremental improvement over time. Turbocharged engines: more finicky and more prone to failure than NA engines.



Forgive me my old master - I'll pay more attention in future. :D May the Forced Induction be with you...



Hmph, I simply copied and pasted the tech data out of carfolio's information. I didn't notice the max torque @ rpm error. Like many turbocharged engines the 2.0TFSI actually has a torque curve plateau from low rpm across to somewhere in the region of 4000-5000 rpm. This is very typical and indicative of the carefully controlled boost pressure by the engine management system acting on the turbocharger wastegate. Here is the proper 2.0 TFSI graph:

e587456e50b5e82ab41cb68b26ed5316.webp


As you can see it too spools up very early - only 250 rpm later than the twin-scroll BMW unit. So in terms of the real-world engine response, I'm prepared to wager that what amounts to an on-paper pissing contest will be much harder to separate in real world driving.

SNIP

Also bear in mind that the VAG 2.0 TSI engine recently became a new design, featured in the Golf GTI and Audi A4, whereas the higher powered version in the Golf R and Audi S3, is the old version, though in latest CDL guise.

The new one can use the Audi valvelift system, which in turn improves low down torque.
 
Also bear in mind that the VAG 2.0 TSI engine recently became a new design, featured in the Golf GTI and Audi A4, whereas the higher powered versions in the Golf R and Audi S3, is the old version, though in latest CDL guise.

The new one can use the Audi valvelift system, which in turn improves low down torque.
That's a very good point FC132, the EA888 engine isn't the one tuned up for the S3 and Golf R. Though I have no doubt that the principles would hold true in any event.
 
That's a very good point FC132, the EA888 engine isn't the one tuned up for the S3 and Golf R. Though I have no doubt that the principles would hold true in any event.

Certainly, it was just a remark, that not all VAG 2.0 TSI are currently created equal, meaning it would be pointless to compare the new BMW unit to the one featured in the Golf R, Audi TTS, S3 etc., as it is not the future of the VAG 2.0T. I just wanted to point that out in the discussion of low down torque in the 2 engines.

Funny thing is though, Maximum torque is reached at 2500 rpm in the S3, and due to the gearing, I never seem to be off boost.
 
IMO Audis sell very well due to their turbo engine iheritance. This engine will bode well for BMW in terms of sales. And it starts with the 1er. I read the whole line up will consist of turbod engines. So in theory BMW sales should pick up even more.
 
They already have. There is a 2.0 turbo engine from M in the racing series already. 100% sure a development of the same engine, and what we will see in some form in the next gen 1er M.

Thank You Mr.Klier for stating that fact! So when the next generation 1M is released with the 4-pot Turbo, it will be a BMW Motorsports derived engine. :eusa_clap

Martin, much appreciation for the detailed explanation! Since the trend in the motor industry is mainstream smaller-capacity turbo engines, I thought I better start learning about it. No where better to start than here!

Also, I found this helpful diagram for anyone else who's trying to understand Martin's explanation.
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Whilst there's no denying that BMW are master engine builders, BMW are very late to the 4 cylinder turbo petrol party. Frankly, failures recorded in VAG's service call knowledge base that have long since been archived, BMW has yet to see with this new engine.

Oh boy, don't even go there... HPFP failures abound over here.


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By the way, how'd you know about the no-booz policy ? :eusa_thin :D
 

BMW

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany. The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)

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