Hot! The 2012 U.S. Sales Battle: Mercedes vs BMW

[Sunny]

^Don't be so upset..

I did not say they are cooking them..nor do i know what the rules are.. ( please enlighten us as you have the nerve to tell me to STFU)

Maybe its inside the rules to sell cars to your COMPANY owned dealers.. and call it sales which in terms generate profit.

If so.. good for them..enjoy the glitch .. if not ..then yes indeed they cooked the books!

Where does this article say BMW used sales to dealerships owned by itself as "sales". You are just making shit up. The article is about US sales number where BMW doesn't own any dealerships.

And as for exploiting, we all know which car company got fined for bribing officials in third world countries for boosting sales.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Now, i'm not suggesting BMW cooks their books, or MB does either, but If Democratic Nations can cook the books, corporations certainly can...and DO.

 

[LaArtist]

Where does this article say BMW used sales to dealerships owned by itself as "sales". You are just making shit up.

Do they own any dealerships in the US?What says that this is only a US isolated incident?.. Im not setting anything in stone..im asking..
Why are you so defensive? as if you KNOW that is not the case.

And who cares if they own them or not..they are BMW authorized dealers ( most of them i assume)..they buy cars from BMW which they of course pay for.. but they are not sold to customers..the difference in the US alone is 13K..
So I would STILL say that's some trickery from BMWs side.

Still can you provide the rules for what a sale is or is not?

Edit:
Im pretty sure BMW of Manhattan is owned by BMW AG.. and probably more dealerships across the US

 

[Sunny]

Do they own any dealerships in the US?What says that this is only a US isolated incident?.. Im not setting anything in stone..im asking..
Why are you so defensive? as if you KNOW that is not the case.

And who cares if they own them or not..they are BMW authorized dealers ( most of them i assume)..they buy cars from BMW which they of course pay for.. but they are not sold to customers..the difference in the US alone is 13K..
So I would STILL say that's some trickery from BMWs side.

Still can you provide the rules for what a sale is or is not?

No there are no BMW owned dealerships in US (AFAIK). And there is a diffrence between if the dealership is owned by BMW or not. If a dealership not owned by BMW buys 10 cars and uses them as demo cars, it is sales as far as BMW is concerned. They would probably be even breaking rules if they don't report them as sales and not pay tax on it.

And no you are not asking, you are insinuating wrong doing with out any proof, which is really shitty thing to do - but whatever, you seem to get immense pleasure from it, so go ahead.

As for accounting rules, you can search for GAAP which is what most US corporations follow.

 

[LaArtist]

I have no time to search GAAP.. nor do i have any interest of doing that.

Lets see if Eni can shed some light on the BMW ownership of dealers.

Still one must ask why these NON bmw owned dealers are so keen on collecting cars..do they have ample parking space to fill? or whats the deal?

It is possible that they might be breaking rules if they do not report them as sales, i think most probably they WOULD break the rules..

But still why does these dealers buy cars they have not sold..and a whole 13K of them?
When the difference in the sales leader crown is less than 6k.. do you not think that is related?
Do you not think that BMW AG has something to do with it?
And do you not think that no matter if they own them or not.. is it NOT BMW AGs responsibility to set their authorized dealers straight, if this is done behind their backs ( which i HIGHLY doubt)..as it generates bad publicity?

Im asking..and insinuating..as what the info says..reeks of wrong doing..and shit..
Now is it wrong in the sense of business? laws? ethics? probably not..but it sure as hell is wrong in some way..to report 13K sales when the cars are not even bought by actual HUMAN BEINGs.. if not wrong..it sure as hell is fishy/manipulating..

And yes i really do enjoy this.. i should in fact post this in RED with big letters, as eni does when someone posts anything that is ¨wrong¨against BMW..so it clearly stands out to each reader of the forum..that something wrong has been done..

But yeah.. its not that important to me after all

 

[Merc1]

I doubt if BMW owns any dealerships in the U.S. Mercedes itself only own one that I know of, which is in Manhattan. There may be more, both BMW and MB owned, I doubt it, but I'm not 100% sure.

M

 

[LaArtist]

Fyi i found the 2012 numbers for Daimler AG.. non for BMW so far ( they busy cookin them )

In line with our guidance, during the third quarter disclosure, we achieved group EBIT from ongoing business of EUR 8.1 billion and a net profit of EUR 6.5 billion.

To compare:
Daimler AG:
Profit €5.667 billion (2011)

BMW AG:
Profit €4.881 billion (2011)

Somehow i don't see BMW making the jump from 4.8 to 6.5 in a year

PS
I know that this is the whole group and not BMW cars vs Mercedes cars..but this is the best i can do.
And to be frank they are one and same company..and they different divisions cover for each other to make a profitable big group in the end ( hopefully)

source:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/116...sses-q4-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript

 

[Sunny]

Still one must ask why these NON bmw owned dealers are so keen on collecting cars..do they have ample parking space to fill? or whats the deal?

It is hilarious that you think there is some conspiracy in which BMW dealerships would spend their money collecting cars so BMW can claim they sold more cars than Mercedes.

They are not collecting cars, as the article says, they are demo cars which after some period of time they sell to customers at a discount - these cars are obviously not registered by the buyers as a "new car" cause they have been used by the dealer, though BMW sold it as a new car. BMW is hardly alone in doing this. I know Porsche does it cause I get an email from the local dealer every month end with the list of demo cars they are offering a discount on.

Now it is a valid question to raise if these cars should be counted in some boastful press release and I can see arguments for both sides of that. But to think there is some hare-brained conspiracy by the BMW dealerships to spend money "collecting cars" is just down right hilarious.

 

[Wolfgang]

Saw the article above mention data from Polk. So headed over to Polk.com to see what's up.
"GEN Y" is switching from BMW and Saab to Audi, Mercedes and Infiniti apparently?

 

[Merc1]

C-Class Coupe is doing that. It is driven by more young people than I've ever seen behind the wheel of a Benz.


M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Also has to do with the palpable change in BMW's cars. They're more conservative,less dynamic and more luxurious. And this shift is exactly what I was talking about in that BMW marketing thread. The change won't take place overnight, but if BMW doesn't do something about it, it will continue. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing. The worlds population is aging.

 

[Zafiro]

But to think there is some hare-brained conspiracy by the BMW dealerships to spend money "collecting cars" is just down right hilarious.

True. What a silly article.

 

[Merc1]

What a silly article.

It really isn't, it points out the different definition companies have of the word "sold". I've been saying for years that watching "sales" figures really isn't all that accurate because of things like this. Anyone can ship a lot of cars to dealers, but actually moving them is another thing.

M

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Exactly. And who's to say the BMW dealers are not under instruction by BMW USA or BMW Germany. It's certainly within the realms of possibility, and in fact highly likely, that companies manipulate sales data. In this case BMW had the perfect motive, to retain the luxury car maker crown two years in a row and all the glowing press that comes from it.

 

[Sunny]

True. What a silly article.

I was't talking about the article which does raise valid point about if demo cars (which are, mind you, sold to customers later but can't be registered as new cars) should be counted as new car sales. But I was talking about Artist's hare-brained conspiracy theories about BMW dealers spending their hard earned money and buying cars and filling parking lots for a stupid title and press release that doesn't mean anything.

Exactly. And who's to say the BMW dealers are not under instruction by BMW USA or BMW Germany. It's certainly within the realms of possibility, and in fact highly likely, that companies manipulate sales data. In this case BMW had the perfect motive, to retain the luxury car maker crown two years in a row and all the glowing press that comes from it.

Welcome to the tinfoil hat club!

 

[Zafiro]

Sounds like american BMW dealers are wealthy dealers to ship unsold cars just to remain top 1 in sales. Next you guys are saying european bmw dealers does the same while other carmakers doesnt. Im sorry but it just sounds like someone is pissed at BMW for being top 1 sellers worldwide.

 

[Merc1]

You don't understand the article or what is being said here lol.

M

 

[LaArtist]

No they don't as per tradition or f***ing knee jerk reaction they defend blindly.
Foul play and stinking of shit is what this article tells us the situation is.
Disregard or brush it over, any one with an ounce of brain capacity can see that something fishy is going on, and hence naturally wonders what and why.. And to what extent is this a part of bmws sales.
If it does not trigger that reaction for you.. Your either brain dead or extremely narrow minded.

Your pick!

 

[martinbo]

Just keep the swearing down please Artist. If you really have to use the F-bomb then try and #@ out some of the letters in the public forums.

 

[LaArtist]

Will do my bad