Videos Supertest: Veyron, enzo, zonda and CGT *teaser*

[zetableh]

Wow, I didn't realize people would get over each other like this. Oh well, time to voice my opinion.

I hate the Veyron. It's too much of everything, and not enough of anything that matters. It's too much luxury, too much comfort, too much GT. I mean, Volkswagen built it solely to say that they could, and lose money on every single sale. Furthermore, it takes them 16 cylinders and 4 turbochargers to make 1,000hp? Saleen did it with half of each. I thought Jeremy Clarkson was always the one talking about how the Europeans can do more with less, eh?

Plus, the car is downright ugly. It's short, fat, and ugly. The Zonda is a much prettier car (this coming from a guy who thinks the CCX is beautiful, whereas the Zonda isn't much at all attractive, but it is purposeful looking), and probably makes a much better sound. The Carrera GT has the engine from a race-car and a proper manual transmission, and the Enzo is the F60, so to speak. It's crazy, it's sick, and it's the pinacle of supercars right now.

So, I say I'm rooting for anything but the Veyron to win. Screw the Veyron. If someone gave me one, I'd turn around and sell it the next day, if not sooner, I hate it so much.

EDIT: And before people tell me about the marvels of the Veyron and it's stupid aerodynamics, I'm willing to bet that an S7TT would outhandle a Veyron, for all of its electronic and wing extending wizardry. After all, the Saleen has such amazing aerodynamics that it could "be driven upside down at 160mph and still maintain contact with the ground." Besides, you don't see Veyron's running in ALMS and other such racing events.

 

[Zonda]

The Carrera GT has the engine from a race-car and a proper manual transmission, and the Enzo is the F60, so to speak. It's crazy, it's sick, and it's the pinacle of supercars right now.

I do not agree!

The Enzo is not the F60. It was just the journalists who thought so and called it that. It's called Ferrari Enzo Ferrari and nopthing else. It came in 2003 which isn't even Ferrari's 60th celebraton year. 2007 is

And it's not the pinnacle of supercars, it was but not anymore.

 

[LaArtist]

Its funny to me that MB has faster cars than BMW.. both on and off track..and its bmw that stands for sport.. BMW need to make a competitor to these cars

PS
once again you take my words and make em to something else.. i did not say that AMG´s are faster on track..i said the opposite

 

[Zonda]

Its funny to me that MB has faster cars than BMW.. both on and off track..and its bmw that stands for sport.. BMW need to make a competitor to these cars

BMW may have numbers against them but I'm sure they feel more sporty to drive. CLK-DTM is an exeption.

 

[LaArtist]

those are the exceptions im talking about..CLK DTM, SLR, CLK GTR and such

 

[bmer]

I do not agree!

The Enzo is not the F60. It was just the journalists who thought so and called it that. It's called Ferrari Enzo Ferrari and nopthing else.

Actually the official name is Enzo Ferrari (not Ferrari Enzo or Ferrari Enzo Ferrari). This is an exception in the Ferrari's naming policy.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Its funny to me that MB has faster cars than BMW.. both on and off track..and its bmw that stands for sport.. BMW need to make a competitor to these cars

PS
once again you take my words and make em to something else.. i did not say that AMG´s are faster on track..i said the opposite

Really, now you're pushing thing to the twilight zone. And taking in consideration cars that have no BMW counterparts doesn't count.

 

[LaArtist]

i dont know if its my english or my way of writing that throws some of you off the line.. but if you read my post i have said..
BMW needs to make a supersports car..cause they are a brand accociated with sport.. until they dont do that there will be faster MB´s and Ferraris and whatever..
and no body is stoping them from making one..

so if you think about it for a second..you will realize that i took the counterpart thing in concideration

 

[zetableh]

I do not agree!

The Enzo is not the F60. It was just the journalists who thought so and called it that. It's called Ferrari Enzo Ferrari and nopthing else. It came in 2003 which isn't even Ferrari's 60th celebraton year. 2007 is

And it's not the pinnacle of supercars, it was but not anymore.

What I meant is the Enzo is the F60 in that it is the sucessor to the F50, which was the sucessor to the F40. It's Ferrari's supercar.

 

[Zafiro]

Its funny to me that MB has faster cars than BMW.. both on and off track..and its bmw that stands for sport.. BMW need to make a competitor to these cars

PS
once again you take my words and make em to something else.. i did not say that AMG´s are faster on track..i said the opposite

only AMG cars that faster than M cost a lot lot more. Of course BMW can build a super expensive car to beat a lot of cars outthere. Price/kronor bmw offer better performance.
So no, I dont find anything funny. You dont see BMW image being hurt becuase they dont have a CGT or enzo competitor but I agree that I would like to see such car from BMW. Preying!!.

anyhow, now we arent stayong on-topic

 

[Imhotep Evil]

i dont know if its my english or my way of writing that throws some of you off the line.. but if you read my post i have said..
BMW needs to make a supersports car..cause they are a brand accociated with sport.. until they dont do that there will be faster MB´s and Ferraris and whatever..
and no body is stoping them from making one..

so if you think about it for a second..you will realize that i took the counterpart thing in concideration

Well actually there is something stoping them.
Like overstreching the brand/brand management, finacial considerations, the BMW Modus Operandi were usually a new model has to be profitable, generate positive ROI, and have a future. Many of this models don't go into this category.

Porsche comes close, but the CGT is no more, and probably they never got positive ROI; the SLR is basicaly something no automaker should do; Ferrari, most of their cars ever made were finacial black holes.

Oh BTW there is something similiar, the M3 GTR street legal for omologation purposes.

 

[LaArtist]

Educate me.. is there a M3 GTR for the public..for drive on piblic roads

ohh and BMW is a very large a profitable company..they can manage a car like this they arent exactly poor..
and that philosophy does not hold.. cause we have cars like the Z8 the 8 series where is the future of those cars??
ohh and if you make a sportscar its up to you to make it break even and develop a sucessor..
the things you mention are technicalitys.. if they want they can make it..
and thats it.. until that they are beaten by more sporty cars from brands that dont even market themselfs as sporty.. as MB.. a perfect example

 

[Zafiro]

Educate me.. is there a M3 GTR for the public..for drive on piblic roads

ohh and BMW is a very large a profitable company..they can manage a car like this they arent exactly poor..
and that philosophy does not hold.. cause we have cars like the Z8 the 8 series where is the future of those cars??
ohh and if you make a sportscar its up to you to make it break even and develop a sucessor..
the things you mention are technicalitys.. if they want they can make it..
and thats it.. until that they are beaten by more sporty cars from brands that dont even market themselfs as sporty.. as MB.. a perfect example

BMW are still a sport brands just look at all their cars, doesnt matter what model, their cars still have a touch of sport, doesnt need to be an M. Just becuase they dont have a super expensive car doesnt mean they cant call their cars sporty.
They are selling more cars than Audi and Mercedes despite not having a supercar and calling their brand sporty. I dont understand you at all.
There will be a replacement for Z8, a M6 CSL and M3 CSL, BMW future is very intresting.

and why are we having this debate in this thread, the headline wasnt even about BMW. Artist or imhop create your own thread about BMW and sport but the this isnt the right place.

 

[LaArtist]

i dont want a new thread.. so i will close this up with my last comment on the matter..
i do not say that BMW cant make it without a sportscar..
im saying a company like bmw with a great tradition of sporty cars..should make a sports car.. thats something i would love to see..and i belive it can turn out extra ordinary..nothing wrong with that wish imo..

 

[Michael]

i dont want a new thread.. so i will close this up with my last comment on the matter..
i do not say that BMW cant make it without a sportscar..
im saying a company like bmw with a great tradition of sporty cars..should make a sports car.. thats something i would love to see..and i belive it can turn out extra ordinary..nothing wrong with that wish imo..

I too share your opinion on the matter. I have always wanted BMW to make a supercar. I am sure they wil, and when they do, it will be really nice!

 

[klier]

once again klier you are not understanding my point..
im not saying that straight line performance of AMG´s are as insane as veyron..
im saying that the philosophy behind the veyron is more AMGish than Mish
and vice versa for the Zonda..

Once again?

I think you don't understand me. I get your whole 'philosophy' thing with M vs. AMG and Veyron (beiing the AMG) vs. Pagani (being the M).

But the point I was trying to make is the fact that you cannot compare the Veyron with the Pagani like you compare the M vs. AMG.
Veyron, from my point of view, is in another league, and no other car is comparable to the powers f that car.

And, I find it VERY strange you like the Pagani because it is like BMW ///M, while you would choose AMG over M. Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

 

[LaArtist]

yep thats why i said klier my friend..that you are free to make your choice..no matter if you like AMG or M..
look at me i went against tradition..and you are also free to do so..and chose the heavy locomotive of a car we call the veyron

 

[dOmInIX]

Besides who cares who win the test. I still choose the CGT

 

[klier]

yep thats why i said klier my friend..that you are free to make your choice..no matter if you like AMG or M..
look at me i went against tradition..and you are also free to do so..and chose the heavy locomotive of a car we call the veyron

Ok, let me get this straight then:

A Veyron weighs 1850 kg according to Wikipedia. Fine, a big heavy locomotive of a car.

A 2006 MB CL 600, the car in your avater, weighs 2085 kg (!!!)..... What does that make the CL 600? A tanker?

I don't get your reasoning. At all.

 

[LaArtist]

the CL is lucury coupe..and the veyron is meant to be a supercar..
the philosphy is very similar.. huge power loads of weight..

the specs of the veyron makes it unique..and thats why it cant be measured against precision instruments like the cgt and zonda.. imo..

we would have to wait for a bentley,roller or MM supercar.. that would be a real match for the veyron..

PS
the veyron is more like 2000kg if remeber correctly.. but it doesent really matter..
i cant explain my reasoning much further than this..im sorry