LFA for me. I'd say it has as much passion as any car here. Probably more attention to precision and detail. Most exotic too, in terms of production volume and bespoke componentry. Exterior styling wise, the Lambo edges out the 458; nicely finished inside, but looks dated. SLS performs beyond its on-paper spec and Mercedes have done well to produce a front-engined GT that stands comparison with the mid-engined Italians.
Supercars in the 560-570-hp-class. Your favorite?
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Could not have said it better myself.
I have just found out Lotus is campaigning very hard to get Lexus to license this masterpiece V10 for their upcoming Espirit. I really hope Lexus does not budge.
Granted in a straight line, it will not be as fast as the 458 Italia, how could one ever ignore these things that are revolutionary in the supercar world:
- Center of gravity only 17 inches off the ground.
- A V10 that is smaller than any V8 out there.
- 9500 rpm rev limit and the engne sound
- A V10 that weighs less than a 3.0 Liter V6
- 75% carbon fiber construction
- It is a Lexus so it will not go up in flames and will last an eternity
- All the luxuries of a Ferrari 599 GTB packed in a 3260 pounds car.
Could not have said it better myself.
I have just found out Lotus is campaigning very hard to get Lexus to license this masterpiece V10 for their upcoming Espirit. I really hope Lexus does not budge.
Granted in a straight line, it will not be as fast as the 458 Italia, how could one ever ignore these things that are revolutionary in the supercar world:
- Center of gravity only 17 inches off the ground.
- A V10 that is smaller than any V8 out there.
- 9500 rpm rev limit and the engne sound
- A V10 that weighs less than a 3.0 Liter V6
- 75% carbon fiber construction
- It is a Lexus so it will not go up in flames and will last an eternity
- All the luxuries of a Ferrari 599 GTB packed in a 3260 pounds car.
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I'm sure the LFA might be the most technically advanced, and well engineered car of the bunch, and is a marvel. It's just boring and uninspiring to me, despite its credentials, and highly designed exterior, which basically means that true Lexus/Toyota DNA runs though it, as no matter what, they never seen to impress me.
Design is a subjective and beauty lies in the beholder's eyes. I hated the design of an Enzo Ferrari since the long-ish nose/overhang and short decklid just don't cut it for me, but that does not make it any less of a car in my eyes.
Although, I don't find any of these cars boring, I would put Gallardo as the most dated and old design while I find LFA's design the most original, futuristic, unique, most functional and also proportioned perfectly. Kind of like love-it-or-hate-it type.
Besides, what truly matter is that LFA has proven to be the most track driver oriented out of all of these and is definitely atleast exhilarating and exciting to drive as any of these.
lambornima
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I wanted to believe Lexus' claim of 3200 lbs, but its shaping up to be more 3400-3500 lbs and thats TOO MUCH especially for a car thats "75% carbon fiber", doesnt have a dual clutch gearbox, and isnt AWD.
as for the LFA being a cruise missile, all of these cars are fast as hell. and im sorry but the LFA is not the best track car out there. not in the presence of cars like the Superleggera and Scuderia. yes im sure compared to a 911 Turbo or a SLS. and im not just talking about pure laptimes, im talking about the superior track tool.
also, there is a lot of data on the LP570. google it. 0-100 in low 3s, 0-200 in low 10s and until the 458 Scuderia/CS comes out, it has almost no competition from its class when it comes to laptimes.
I know you like the LFA and I do too and as much as I want to defend it, as I very much like lexus as a brand, the ONLY area the LFA shines is the engine noise. when it comes to looks and pure speed, it definitely falls short, and thats BEFORE we get to the price tag
The 3260 lbs is the dry weight. The 3400 - 3500 lbs is the weight with optional full luxuries in it and also weight all fluids of the car as well as full tank of gas (easily over 100 lbs for the fuel alone). I can show you test weights where Carrera GT test weight was ~ 3300 lbs and it did not even have half of the luxuries LFA has a la even a 14 speaker Mark levinson sound system.
Not to start an argument, but 458 Scuderia is a stripped down version and apples to oranges comparison with the LFA (as is the Superleggera). Even the sound deadening is stripped out in these cars. The Nurburgring edition would be much more a closer competition. Even then, the Nurburgring edition has a lot more standard equipment (conversely, weight loss is not as aggressive).
Still, Superleggera is too new and there is not enough test data to support. As is Lexus LFA. I do know for a fact that LFA is a lot better as a track car compared to the LP670-4 Superveloce (and the fact that it costs $100,000 more. I don't ever see anyone criticizing Lamborghini for that).
I know you like the LFA and I do too and as much as I want to defend it, as I very much like lexus as a brand, the ONLY area the LFA shines is the engine noise. when it comes to looks and pure speed, it definitely falls short, and thats BEFORE we get to the price tag
Quite the opposite for me. I am not a fan of Lexus (to put it lightly). I would not buy a single car I can afford by Lexus because they are not my cup of tea. I just like LFA very much. However, considering what LFA's true competitors are, it indeed is the superior handling car.
The price tag is that way because there are only 500 of them and we live in a free market economy (or close enough to it anyway). It's not because Lexus is being greedy. We are talking about a car that has only 1/20th the volume of the Gallardo, has far more bespoke components.I know you like the LFA and I do too and as much as I want to defend it, as I very much like lexus as a brand, the ONLY area the LFA shines is the engine noise. when it comes to looks and pure speed, it definitely falls short, and thats BEFORE we get to the price tag
I would not say the engine is the only place the LFA shines...
The pic above shows the attention to detail and quality of materials. Just about everything silver in the cabin is magnesium or titanium. The ventilation housings are made of machined aluminum, whereas those in the Gallardo are plastic bits that look like they came from the supplier of the Mazda3. Even the fasteners aren't off-the-shelf.
The Lexus is heavy because it's been overbuilt (think multiple 24 hour enduros on the world's gnarliest circuit), has the counter gear set, rear-mounted radiators, structural solidity that makes it feel mid-engined, and has all the luxury amenities and warranty backing of any other Lexus.
lambornima
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The price tag is that way because there are only 500 of them and we live in a free market economy (or close enough to it anyway). It's not because Lexus is being greedy. We are talking about a car that has only 1/20th the volume of the Gallardo, has far more bespoke components.
I would not say the engine is the only place the LFA shines...
The pic above shows the attention to detail and quality of materials. Just about everything silver in the cabin is magnesium or titanium. The ventilation housings are made of machined aluminum, whereas those in the Gallardo are plastic bits that look like they came from the supplier of the Mazda3. Even the fasteners aren't off-the-shelf.
The Lexus is heavy because it's been overbuilt (think multiple 24 hour enduros on the world's gnarliest circuit), has the counter gear set, rear-mounted radiators, structural solidity that makes it feel mid-engined, and has all the luxury amenities and warranty backing of any other Lexus.
I stand corrected! indeed the car is a masterpiece. HOWEVER as you pointed out the car is ~370K and the fact that we're comparing it to cars that should technically be in a lower class, says something about Toyota's delivery AKA underpowered + overweight. as opposed to the GTR, that came out and was compared to cars that are above its catagory.
now im not gonna get into an argument about whether or not the car is worth its pricetag. though I still havent seen many (or any) person on any forum say they are purchasing one. im a member on lambopower and there are members there who own lambos (everything from countachs to 670SVs) to 458s, 430S, all sorts of Porsches, SLRs, CGTs, Zondas etc. yet no one has bought an LFA. and no one knows anyone who has bought one
what I willing to argue about is the speed. im sorry its just not 300+K supercar territory. there is no denying that. even if the car gets launch control, its gonna get spanked.
lambornima
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well you claimed that its the best track car in the catagory and obviously thats not the case because of cars like the Superleggera and Scuderia, and the very fact that they are more hardcore. yes in the presence of an SLS or 599 or LP640 it is.
as for the weight, ive always seen CGT weights at about 3250 lbs. quite a ways away from 3450. 3450 lbs is too much for a car boasting about being almost all CF, and having a superlight engine. maybe they need to do away with a few luxuries and create a proper supercar.
no one criticizes lamborghini for the SV's price tag because there are only 350 of them and the cars LOOKS like a 450K car and GOES like a supercar. and keep in mind the SV isnt a track car. 3800 lbs being the main reason for that. its a beefed up LP640.
The list contains 458 and not Scuderia so no 458 Scuderia is not a part of this.
RoadAndTrack actually got 3530 pounds for the Carrera GT test weight when they tested it back in May 2004.
But, LP670-4 can still be matched, if not beaten by cars that cost 1/5th its price in a straight line? ZR-1 matched the LP670-4 in a straight line and beat it around the race track. Somehow LFA is criticized for that and not the other cars?
Well, same could be said about the LFA. There are only 500 of them that will ever exist.
Same could be said about the LFA that it goes around a race track like a pure supercar, it looks like a supercar, it drives like a supercar, it exhilarates like a supercar and also sounds like an F1 racing car.
Yes, it is not the fastest and probably midpack in a straight line, but still 11.4 - 11.6 seconds 1/4 mile (with proper launch) that LFA is capable of is not slow by any stretch and also is nothing but supercar performance. The terminal velocity of 125 mph in only 11.3 seconds is fast as hell.
Weird. I already know three people who have placed their orders for LFA (not on this forum). As a matter of fact, I know of one who was rejected as well. He was the celebrity actor/race car driver Zachary Levi who went on radio to talk about his rejection by Lexus on offering him an LFA (in not so kind words). Lexus had way more applications for the LFA than the 500 allocations. The remaining few allocations left are only because Lexus wants to sell those in US only.
HighestOfHigh
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Ferrari, Mercedes, Lexus and Lambo in that order for me. The difference between the Lexus and the Mercedes is thin as to not matter really. The Lexus is the most special car here in a way since it is the complete opposite from its siblings. I'm over the Lambo. The Mercedes' interior is just too parts bin compared to these. Nothing tops a Ferrari though and the 458 is stunning and hot (it catches fire if you drive it hard lol).
M
M
Just because you are on a forum with Lambo owners who don't buy it, that doesn't mean anything. Lexus were apparently giving first chance to buy to existing Lexus customers, especially those with the IS-F. Which Lexus forums are you a member of? Lexus were also targeting high-profile people (musicians, athletes, CEOs) who could put the car in a visible position; I'd wager most of these people do not hang out on forums that you and I frequent, though I have seen 2 people in online forums who have received confirmation letters and one person who lost out in a lottery process in his country.I stand corrected! indeed the car is a masterpiece. HOWEVER as you pointed out the car is ~370K and the fact that we're comparing it to cars that should technically be in a lower class, says something about Toyota's delivery AKA underpowered + overweight. as opposed to the GTR, that came out and was compared to cars that are above its catagory.
now im not gonna get into an argument about whether or not the car is worth its pricetag. though I still havent seen many (or any) person on any forum say they are purchasing one. im a member on lambopower and there are members there who own lambos (everything from countachs to 670SVs) to 458s, 430S, all sorts of Porsches, SLRs, CGTs, Zondas etc. yet no one has bought an LFA. and no one knows anyone who has bought one
what I willing to argue about is the speed. im sorry its just not 300+K supercar territory. there is no denying that. even if the car gets launch control, its gonna get spanked.
Also, consider the cultural differences. You and I have been conditioned to accept that legit supercars come from Europe, and that has been the history. There are people with new money who are probably more open-minded than that. Unless you can converse with people who speak Russian, Japanese, Chinese, or Arabic, you are only seeing a crumb of the billionaire pie.
A $100k watch is rarely judged on how well it tells time. And the Reventon costs as much as a Veyron; are you quite sure it's just as fast as a Veyron, or as well built? Harping on the price is pointless when you can't even realistically buy one.
Speed is rarely the deciding factor of worth in cars of this price range, and there is the (false) assumption that people are automatically looking for speed, or even a supercar. What they mostly want is somthing special and is nice to drive and experience that 99.99% of the time when the car isn't on a racetrack. LFA buyers are assigned a representative to help them customize their order, like Maybach, and they're also given a dedicated technician. To people with money, this will count for a lot more than a few seconds on a track between professional drivers.
GT-R is a money-loser. Nissan admitted that when they released details on the SpecV. To compare one money-loser against another tells you very little about their relative worth. You don't think the GT-R cost as much as, say, the Scuderia to develop? I'll bet you it cost much more to develop than that, yet it doesn't cost anywhere near as much. Nissan were willing to take it on the chin as many companies do with their halo car. They're still looking to make that project profitable by developing a car using the same mechanicals.
Forget any technical detail, the looks alone does it for me.
Just got a glimpse of the new TopGear magazine edition with "greatest 5 supercars of 2010" and their head to head comparison. They call "2010 as the best ever year for supercars":
Ferrari 458 Italia
Lexus LFA
SLS AMG
GT3 RS
570-4 Superleggera
It has very detailed comparisons of the cars. The SLS AMG ran a 1:21.6 in complete dry while GT3 RS ran 1:21 in the dry. The LFA in "soaking wet" according to Hammond ran 1:22.3 and Stig had to "gingerly modulate the throttle" in the corners. The 458 Italia was 1:19.8 in complete dry.
The biggest surprise was the winner. It happened to be the Lexus LFA, which was Stig's most favorite car on the race track. He goes in extensive details as to why he likes the LFA the most. Handling, power, braking, grip. He talks about everything.
Some general comments:
"Its a Stig type of car"
"But it's also the number one crowd-stopper and though not all the people we speak to like it, everyone wants to know what it is
Stig commenting on picking LFA as the winner:
"Amazing track weapon, super-stiff chassis makes it extremely sensitive to inputs...V10 engine has power everywhere and delivery to make the most of that...brakes powerful but don't interfere...lots of grip in slow and fast corners..food balance into...through, out of corners. What's Lexus? Does it also make fridges?"
I will try and get scans of the article. If someone else gets a hold of the magazine, please scan it.
Ferrari 458 Italia
Lexus LFA
SLS AMG
GT3 RS
570-4 Superleggera
It has very detailed comparisons of the cars. The SLS AMG ran a 1:21.6 in complete dry while GT3 RS ran 1:21 in the dry. The LFA in "soaking wet" according to Hammond ran 1:22.3 and Stig had to "gingerly modulate the throttle" in the corners. The 458 Italia was 1:19.8 in complete dry.
The biggest surprise was the winner. It happened to be the Lexus LFA, which was Stig's most favorite car on the race track. He goes in extensive details as to why he likes the LFA the most. Handling, power, braking, grip. He talks about everything.
Some general comments:
"Its a Stig type of car"
"But it's also the number one crowd-stopper and though not all the people we speak to like it, everyone wants to know what it is
Stig commenting on picking LFA as the winner:
"Amazing track weapon, super-stiff chassis makes it extremely sensitive to inputs...V10 engine has power everywhere and delivery to make the most of that...brakes powerful but don't interfere...lots of grip in slow and fast corners..food balance into...through, out of corners. What's Lexus? Does it also make fridges?"
I will try and get scans of the article. If someone else gets a hold of the magazine, please scan it.
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Easy one!
1. 458 Italia - it's the masterpiece from Maranello, a road-biased car that's quicker than it's track-biased predessor; it looks sensational, it has the most appealling driver interface and the best integration of engine, transmission and chassis management systems. The 2nd best performance car in the world... after the other Ferrari of course.
2. LFA - it's just special to people like me and some other enthusiasts here. This is a car that appeals to the passionate driver. Never-seen-before hair trigger throttle response and an interior that just sooo fine.
3. SLS - Mercedes Benz magnificence really. A close 3rd for sure.
4. Superleggera. It looks old all of a sardine. Its interior is dull. And given the means I'd never buy one if I had a Ferrari 458.
1. 458 Italia - it's the masterpiece from Maranello, a road-biased car that's quicker than it's track-biased predessor; it looks sensational, it has the most appealling driver interface and the best integration of engine, transmission and chassis management systems. The 2nd best performance car in the world... after the other Ferrari of course.
2. LFA - it's just special to people like me and some other enthusiasts here. This is a car that appeals to the passionate driver. Never-seen-before hair trigger throttle response and an interior that just sooo fine.
3. SLS - Mercedes Benz magnificence really. A close 3rd for sure.
4. Superleggera. It looks old all of a sardine. Its interior is dull. And given the means I'd never buy one if I had a Ferrari 458.
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