86 Suggestions for suitable engine for Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ.


The Toyota 86 and the Subaru BRZ are 2+2 sports cars jointly developed by Toyota and Subaru, manufactured at Subaru's Gunma assembly plant. For the first-generation model, Toyota marketed the sports car as the 86 in Asia, Australia, North America (from August 2016), South Africa, and South America; as the Toyota GT86 in Europe; as the 86 and GT86 in New Zealand; as the Toyota FT86 in Brunei, Nicaragua and Jamaica and as the Scion FR-S (2012–2016) in the United States and Canada.
H

Hofmeister

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Considering the main (and only major) criticism leveled at the new Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ, is the fact its NA inline 4 is a little underpowered for drifting, I was wondering what people would suggest as a good engine instead. It would preferably be low capacity(lightweight), and turbocharged(torquey for spinning those skinny rear tyres)
 
Lotus seems to have had good success with the IS350 2GR V6 engine mated to a 6 speed manual transmission. I would say it would be a good choice.

Considering the main (and only major) criticism leveled at the new Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ, is the fact its NA inline 4 is a little underpowered for drifting, I was wondering what people would suggest as a good engine instead. It would preferably be low capacity(lightweight), and turbocharged(torquey for spinning those skinny rear tyres)
 
What about Audis 2.5 turbo'd 5 from RS3, TTRS?
 
Considering the main (and only major) criticism leveled at the new Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ, is the fact its NA inline 4 is a little underpowered for drifting, I was wondering what people would suggest as a good engine instead. It would preferably be low capacity(lightweight), and turbocharged(torquey for spinning those skinny rear tyres)

Of course, the FA20 in the in the BRZ/GT-86 is a Boxer flat four or horizontally opposed 4 cylinder engine. The idea is to create an accessible and controllable sports car that is benign for novices yet rewarding for skilled helmsmen. A turbocharged engine will make the BRZ much snappier.

Inline 4 and 5 cylinder engines ought be a tight squeeze longitudinally but I've recently seen one heavily modded with a six cylinder turbo engine. That said, I believe the new FA20 2.0 litre DIT twin-scroll turbo Boxer as seen in the JDM Legacy will turn the BRZ into an absolute rocket. Should be a relatively easy retrofit.
 
The idea is to create an accessible and controllable sports car that is benign for novices yet rewarding for skilled helmsmen
If thats the case, what about MINI's JCW engine. Smaller, torquier making it better able to hold its head among hot hatches
 
If thats the case, what about MINI's JCW engine. Smaller, torquier making it better able to hold its head among hot hatches

And what would the Prince engine in a MINI JCW have to do with a BRZ-GT-86? Totally different application: orientation, packaging, centre-of-gravity, induction, length etc. Subaru are masters of the 4 cylinder turbocharging regime - if the design brief was for a turbocharged 4-pot engine then the know-how and technology would be more than readily available.
 
Toyota 2JZ (3.0l I6)
e5a8daef8f72f0ffb2e99a33ee52eb85.webp

Lexus 2UR (5.0l V8)
7100e1faaa4db290316f2ca67f900050.webp

Subaru EJ25 (2.5l H4)
823c1adb86d5b2144ae36079e31e0884.webp


You can fit whatever you wish but it must have sense. The ZX6 engine is maybe weak, but a radical swap is not necessary. If costs are not an issue you can just get this on the base engine :

Toyota 4U (2.0l H4)

320 PS and 420 Nm !

No swap is really needed. There will be aftermarket support for the existing FA20 engine, superchargers, turbochargers and engine kits. The works are going on rapidly.

HKS Supercharged
9bb0561def983b4f5ba7b12a51a639fe.webp


But if not to go aftermarket, it is only a matter of time. The only reasonable factory engine is already around the corner, it is the twin-scroll turbocharged FA20 engine that was introduced in Japan in the Legacy. Different versions, maybe FA16, will later be introduced with the next WRX and WXR STI. What make the ZX6 special is it balance, which can only be achieved thanks to a Boxer engine. That is also Porsche's secret.

FA20
Bore: 86 mm
Stroke: 86 mm
Displacement: 1.998 cc
Compression Ratio: 12.5:1
Power: 200 PS @ 7.000 RPM
Torque: 205 Nm @ 6.400-6.600 RPM
Redline: 7.450 RPM

35af4f00910027d72802fc7a0be7d87f._.webp
c3d95954bb21ef82217c08c827eefe69.webp

FA20 DIT
Bore: 86 mm
Stroke: 86 mm
Displacement: 1.998 cc
Compression Ratio: 10.6:1
Power: 300 PS @ 5.600 RPM
Torque: 400 Nm @ 2.000-4.800 RPM
Redline: 6.000 RPM


70f57aadb09c8530a73999008320de74.webp


Expect an at least 7.000 RPM redline for the turbocharged FA20/FA16 in the BRZ/WRX.


Conclusion : The ZX6 must not get any engine swap. The chassis was build exclusivly for a Boxer 4. I'd like a Boxer 6 but anything longer than and higher than a Boxer 4 will be the wrong engine. If to talk about Mazda MX-5, Lotus Elist/Exige or many otehr cars, a swap can make sense, but in the case of the ZX6, any swap other than H4 is a mistake.
 
Great post Levi...

Given that I've lost my contacts at Subaru I can now only speculate as to what their longer-term plans are for the BRZ / WRX / STI in terms of engine offerings.
The "FA16" (known presently only as 1.6 DIT Boxer to the general public) is a possible contender for the WRX - should Subaru be wanting to enter the WRC arena again in the S2000 class. STI is surely to have a reworked version of the 221 kW FA20 DIT as seen in the JDM Legacy. That engine's bound to be an absolute stormer in an STI.

As to which engine the WRX gets is less clear; maybe only a higher tuned 1.6 DIT for JDM and 2.0 DIT for the rest of the world (as is current practice except in the respective displacement differences of 2.0 and 2.5 litres).

If Subaru doesn't let STI do a version of the BRZ then they need their heads checked. What an opportunity this presents for the brand! I believe that chassis can easily cope with 221 kW and 400 Nm when given the right tyres and it would be plainly ballistic.
 
I will be driving a red GT86 from my local Toyota (Mortimer Bethlehem) dealer as in tomorrow Wednesday 07/18, their demo has arrived and they are currently doing the GT86's Pre-delivery service;)

I will do a short write-up.
 
Bah, you'll be driving one before me. Pissed off but delighted for you! :) Careful - that thing's going to feel uiters stadig at altitude. Looking forward to your write up.
 
Ok, here it goes. Sweet and short.

I cannot better any professional-testers review on the GT-86. Yet I hope my honest opinion counts;)

Let's begin with the cabin.
For it's intended use and the GT-86's overall intentions as to why it exists 9/10

It's sparse. Materials is class-match, for this price R298 000.00 it's more the adequate with a soft touch-mat upper dash. The rest is hard plastics. Switch gear is clearly laid out and user friendly. The lack of sattelite controls on the steering wheel emphasizes this cars intentions - DRIVING i.e. Porsche. The driving position is perfect IMO (I am +/-6ft tall) and the seats, though hard-sporty is body hugging and not for those with "love handles", the latter I luckily don't have. There is no distracting bells and whistles, just fits like a glove and directing your eyes where they are suppose to be - on the road!

Engine. (Gearbox)
For the price 7/10

5000rpm, it happens from 5000rpm. From there on it not only sounds great, it pulls great, revs-up nice and coupled to perfect ratio's to the 6sp manual, man a delight! Hell it feels like a sports car and mind you it's more fun than the Scirocco R I have driven. This little Toyota will be a Lotus eater with a more powerful engine! Yet that Boxer engine looks fabulous and match-fit in the engine bay.

Chassis
Hell yeah! 10/10

Sharp as a Minora blade. On long fast corners there is a hint of understeer and on slower tight bends a hint of oversteer BUT nothing a non-racer like myself can't handle! This car makes you feel the Tiff Needell. The ride comfort? Another 10/10! For this wheelbase and Pruis tyres it rides better that the wife's X1. Firm but NEVER teeth shattering even over poor road surfaces.
Maybe it's me being used to AWD (X-Drive) cars, as lively as the chassis is, it can also become a bit nervous. The steering is as direct as any BMW's.

Here a few photo's.

nh-gt86-1-crop.webpnh-gt86-2-crop.webpnh-gt86-3-crop.webpnh-gt86-4-crop.webpnh-gt86-5-crop.webpnh-gt86-6-crop.webp
Martinbo will do the posting soon for I e-mailed him the photos - Thanks M(y)

[Ed: No problemo - photos added]
 
Bear in mind that adding more power isn't the only way to increase driftability. Like any responsible manufacturer, Toyota will have built in some level of understeer. This can be reduce or dialed out through adjustment of tire pressures, and/or adding a thicker aftermarket swaybar. As puny as the tires are, they can be had narrower (as they are on the Prius) though I guess that wouldn't be a popular aesthetic choice. Or tires of the same size but of a harder, less sporty compound can be substituted. The Primacy HP tires are classified as "summer" tires, so "all-season" tires might offer more fun adjustability in the dry in addition to added security in wet seasons. These are pretty simple and cost-effective solutions, and maintain the factory powertrain warranty, and is easier to reverse when it comes time to resale. Sometimes, it is harder to sell a wildly modified car to secondhand buyers looking for a clean slate from which to start. For those not so worried, a simple intake/exhaust/chip could help make it feel more than fast enough (especially with the traction-reducing mods), while maintaing a good weight distribution that some of those swaps might not.
 
Of course the GT86/BRZ is a good drift car, but I think it is also a very good grip car for half the price of a Cayman. With bolt-on mods and 235/40/17 semi-slick tires you can be faster than BMW M, Porsche and Ferrari if you are a good driver.
 
Bear in mind that adding more power isn't the only way to increase driftability. Like any responsible manufacturer, Toyota will have built in some level of understeer. This can be reduce or dialed out through adjustment of tire pressures, and/or adding a thicker aftermarket swaybar. As puny as the tires are, they can be had narrower (as they are on the Prius) though I guess that wouldn't be a popular aesthetic choice. Or tires of the same size but of a harder, less sporty compound can be substituted. The Primacy HP tires are classified as "summer" tires, so "all-season" tires might offer more fun adjustability in the dry in addition to added security in wet seasons. These are pretty simple and cost-effective solutions, and maintain the factory powertrain warranty, and is easier to reverse when it comes time to resale. Sometimes, it is harder to sell a wildly modified car to secondhand buyers looking for a clean slate from which to start. For those not so worried, a simple intake/exhaust/chip could help make it feel more than fast enough (especially with the traction-reducing mods), while maintaing a good weight distribution that some of those swaps might not.

I have the OFFICIAL TOYOTA (South-Africa) - Accessories Cataloque and suspension upgrades, body kits, Sports Exhaust system (4x tailpipes) also engine and chassis brace sets are available from the OEM, already. This car was designed from start to be modified AND 2013 will see a Kw200+ version my dealer assures me.
 
Hey N,

As per our phone call yesterday, I drove the GT86 too. I echo your views almost to the tee.

In short: I absolutely loved it. If anything could highlight a dearth of torque delivery in the GT86's FA20 engine it would be the process of stepping out of a turbocharged WRX with 320 Nm and into a GT86 to drive around at Jozi's circa 1700m altitudes. I did just that. As a result my impressions are thus:

The not-so-good:
The FA20 definitely is light on the low-down torque scale. It initially feels plain slow in moving off the line, feeding into traffic etc. It even has that palpable dip in delivery as the AVCS kicks it up a notch in the upper realms of the rev-range. It's not ideal - the lack of linearity is exacerbated at altitude - something I'm all too familiar with from the ol' Leggy 3.0R Spec B manual. This is the only criticism I have in terms of the overall vehicle dynamics. In SA there is no option for a space-saver spare wheel it seems (I stand to be corrected on this) and a full size steel spare wheel is fitted necessitating a cut-out in the boot carpet exposing a protrusive spare wheel. This robs the boot volume of practicality.

The good:
What do you know - there are soft touch plastics on the dashboard; sure, they're limited to the topmost surfacing of the facia and there are many Tupperware surfaces elsewhere but at R 298-odd K it's better than a kick in the groin with a steel-toe. Standard-model cloth seats are great and will wear well, ergonomics and general ease-of-use are fine. Brakes are feelsome without being ultra-strong and are up to the job of hauling 1180 kg to a standstill from most speeds.

The simply delightful:
At 298 000 bucks just about everything else - most notably...

The controls: Steering is magnificent at this price point - it's weighty and feelsome and accurate. Pedals are FHI-fabulous (as usual) to use. Well weighted and placed, even heel-n-toe is straightforward upon first acquaintances if you're familiar with the typical Subaru layout that requires a bit more of a splayed ball-and-side foot angle. The manual gearshift action is nothing short of remarkable - bolt-like and fast, it's not quite an S2000 shift but man it's sooo good for the money.

The engine @ 5000 rpm and beyond: It's a Boxer engine, so first order vibration is cancelled out as a result of the balanced opposing forces. It just darn well loves to give it its all at the top end of the rev range and, surprisingly, even at altitude the GT86 feels pleasingly quick. Not fast like a Megane RS but quick enough to engage. And engage it does; you feel like you're involved in the process of driving. You feel like you're making a concerted effort to drive spiritedly and the resulting immersion into the process without fear of insane speeds is simply addictive.

The handling: Oh it's better than I ever could glean from the press reviews. I'm not saying it's Cayman good - that's not possible in my opinion - but again, for the money... goodness gracious it's fabulous. All you need to know is, yes, it goes sideways in the dry - just pick your corners carefully and you'll reap the rewards. The ride-handling balance is exceptional. Primary ride comfort is firm but the el-cheapo 16" tyres do much to provide for secondary ride quality that's never brittle or jarring. Firm the GT86 certainly is, harsh...? Probably only on the most poorly maintained tarmac.

Quite simply - I want one.

But... I'm buying a house and my wife won't let me! :D
 

Toyota

Toyota Motor Corporation is a Japanese multinational automotive manufacturer headquartered in Toyota City, Aichi, Japan. It was founded by Kiichiro Toyoda and incorporated on August 28, 1937. As of 2022, the Toyota Motor Corporation produces vehicles under four brands: Daihatsu, Hino, Lexus and the namesake Toyota.
Official website: Toyota

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