4 Series (F32) [Spy Shots] The BMW 4 series GranCoupe is spied cold-weather-testing in Sweden

[wac77]

What do people expect? Vast majority even doesn't know 4er GC is coming. While those who expect to get more practical coupe will be even more thrilled when getting additional door - total of 5, not just 4.

I know that a 4er GC is coming, and I expect it to be a smaller, more affordable 6 GC. A true 4-door coupe. If it is, it will be my next car. If it is a hatchback, I'll pass. And stick to a 5er. BTW, I also dislike A5 SB, A7, and other similar hatchbacks.

I think many people in the US and some other markets where hatchbacks are not popular will share my opinion, and not be "even more thrilled when getting an additional door."

 

[EnI]

As a matter of fact I have and there is NOTHING different about it to call it a 4-Series it is all marketing bullshit so shut up yourself.

So, Audi A5 is a marketing BS as well? And upcoming Lexus Coupe based on IS? Since both are sedan derivates & sold under different names? Or do you have allergy to BMW only?

Just as childish and ignorant as you giving the Gettysburg address in excuses and your typical bullshit as to why BMW is so perfect in everything they do.

Whatever. I can't do anything else to make it even easier to understand.

Nice try, but the CLS SB is completely different looking from the E-Class wagon. This is NOT the case with the 4GC vs the 3GT and they both have 5-doors, according to you!

Perhaps 3er GT & 4er GC do look similar in styling, but definitely not in proportions. Even less in character & purpose. The difference in height is several inches. 3er GT is a coupe-looking crossover - BMW named it "Progressive Activity Sedan". While 4er GC is an enhanced coupe - with increased practicability. In one you sit low (lower than in a sedan) in the other higher (than in a sedan). And driving character is different: 4er GC is more sporty oriented (than sedan) while 3er GT is more comfort oriented (than sedan). Sportiness vs comfort.

And I wasn't asking you about the looks of CLS SB (vs E wagon) - but about the point, purpose etc of CLS SB existence within MB product portfolio.

Is there something wrong with you? You have a problem. I don't hold any type of candle for the American car makers. Who is mocking the German carmakers? Man please get this bullshit cheerleading out your system because you sound like a fool. I just spent a good deal on a BMW and I'm jealous of what they've done? That is dumb as hell.

You were calling Germans (German automakers, I assume) "monkeys" - making irrational product decisions & experimenting with product portfolio too much.

Who are you to tell somewhat they can and can't comprehend? I have common enough sense to know that one of these products isn't needed.

If that's the case you should immediately apply for a consultancy job @ BMW AG product planning department. You'd make millions! Don't hesitate. They'll welcome you - since they'll save lots of money they spent annually for market research etc ... just for having you and your common sense.

3 Series Touring, 3GT and 4GC, too much IMO. One of them isn't needed. Deride my opinion all you want but it is what it is.

Don't forget the upcoming X4 - another BMW 5dr model in this segment. And it's also a hatchback / fastback ... AGAIN!

You can't change it.

It's not even my intention to change it. I'm just proving to others you're wrong. But it's your right to stick to your (wrongful) opinion.

T

 

[Merc1]

So, Audi A5 is a marketing BS as well? And upcoming Lexus Coupe based on IS? Since both are sedan derivates & sold under different names? Or do you have allergy to BMW only?

BMW changed it for no reason other than for the sake of change. The Audi and Lexus look different.

Whatever. I can't do anything else to make it even easier to understand.

Good.

Perhaps 3er GT & 4er GC do look similar in styling, but definitely not in proportions. Even less in character & purpose. The difference in height is several inches. 3er GT is a coupe-looking crossover - BMW named it "Progressive Activity Sedan". While 4er GC is an enhanced coupe - with increased practicability. In one you sit low (lower than in a sedan) in the other higher (than in a sedan). And driving character is different: 4er GC is more sporty oriented (than sedan) while 3er GT is more comfort oriented (than sedan). Sportiness vs comfort.

Progressive Activity Sedan, man please lol....its bullshit. Don't you get that? We'll see how they shake out when they're both on the market.

And I wasn't asking you about the looks of CLS SB (vs E wagon) - but about the point, purpose etc of CLS SB existence within MB product portfolio.

And you missed the point. They are different hence they both have room on the market and don't require a gaggle of excuses as to why they're both around. THAT IS THE POINT.

You were calling Germans (German automakers, I assume) "monkeys" - making irrational product decisions & experimenting with product portfolio too much.

Yep still am. They've been copying each other for years. You know this.

If that's the case you should immediately apply for a consultancy job @ BMW AG product planning department. You'd make millions! Don't hesitate. They'll welcome you - since they'll save lots of money they spent annually for market research etc ... just for having you and your common sense.

You should probably step down from your position then because you make BMW look and sound like Toyota. I seriously doubt that BMW management wants this.

Don't forget the upcoming X4 - another BMW 5dr model in this segment. And it's also a hatchback / fastback ... AGAIN!

It will probably do slightly better than the X6 because of it the price.

It's not even my intention to change it. I'm just proving to others you're wrong. But it's your right to stick to your (wrongful) opinion.

Just like you can stick to your lame arse, bullshit rhetoric and excuses. Anyone with common sense can see right through all this nonsense and see how stupid all these excuses and explanations are. BMW is answering questions NO ONE asked.

M

 

[EnI]

I know that a 4er GC is coming, and I expect it to be a smaller, more affordable 6 GC. A true 4-door coupe. If it is, it will be my next car. If it is a hatchback, I'll pass. And stick to a 5er. BTW, I also dislike A5 SB, A7, and other similar hatchbacks.

I think many people in the US and some other markets where hatchbacks are not popular will share my opinion, and not be "even more thrilled when getting an additional door."

Prius is a hatchback. Panamera is a hatchback. Tesla S is a hatchback. And all these cars seem to be popular - despite being hatchbacks. How come?

4er GC - despite featuring 5th door - presets a very sedan-coupeish side profile. Nobody even knew it's a hatchback until it was explained. It's not evident from car's proportions.

So, what's the problem here? The tail gate itself? Or perhaps the prejudice towards (sometimes really weird) typical hatchback / fastback silhouette (which 4er GC does not feature at all). Or hatchback oozes less status than a car with 3-box layout ?

 

[Rainer271]

Have you seen 4er in person - standing alongside F30 3er sedan, and alongside E92 3er Coupe. If not, please shut it up. Sure F32 could be called 3er Coupe (just like eg A5 could be called A4 coupe) due to same interior & other design similarities ... But compared to previous generations of 3er Coupes (which were more or less 2dr 3er sedans) this 4er is a bit different in proportions than any other 3er Coupe.

Who is telling people what should they buy? If they don't like / need some type of car, they don't buy it. It's that simple. But stop whining because such car was developed & it's on offer in your local showroom. Why even bother? If you're not interest, you're not. But obviously somebody somewhere else is. If not in US, perhaps in Germany, UK or China etc

Screaming that something is stupid because you don't like it is childish & ignorant.

Obviously BMW makes profit with every X6, 5er GT & even 3er GT sold in US - that's why they are selling them there. And it's obviously they sell more 5er GTs (although low volumes) then they ever sold 5er Tourings.

I guess you also diss CLS Shooting Break - find it utterly pointless & stupid: a retarded wagon.

Regarding jealousy ... Why mocking German carmakers? They are the most successful, most innovative & most profitable in the whole automotive industry. Just because they are expanding their product portfolios beyond your comprehension capabilities? What's wrong with having more choices? What's wrong with product that cater someone else's needs and not yours (who are not interested in such vehicle anyway). What's the problem anyway?




Really? Only because there will be a tail gate instead of conventional trunk opening? As you can see the 4er GC profile is very coupe-sedanish. It's nothing like 3er GT - which is several inches higher.

What do people expect? Vast majority even doesn't know 4er GC is coming. While those who expect to get more practical coupe will be even more thrilled when getting additional door - total of 5, not just 4.

Be sure 4er GC will be sales a hit ... just like A5 Sportback is - which isn't even sold in US. Perhaps 4er GC won't be either, who knows. Or it will be & can turn out to be a very niche vehicle - not due to its shape but mostly due to its price.

Mind in mid-sized segments practicality is more important than in full-size segments - when it comes to niche vehicles. Since they are more frequently used as family cars than their more expensive bigger siblings. That's why eg. 4er GC has 5 doors, while 6er GC only has 4 of them.

I have meant with my statement that the people probably are expecting a 4door 4GC because the 6GC has 4 doors too. It was no attack against BMW or you @EnI. It should also no judging if 4 or 5 door will be better in sale.

Regards, Rainer

 

[EnI]

BMW changed it for no reason other than for the sake of change. The Audi and Lexus look different.

Do they really?

Progressive Activity Sedan, man please lol....its bullshit. Don't you get that? We'll see how they shake out when they're both on the market.

I can tell you: in some markets 3er GT will be more popular, in others the 4er GC. It's that simple. And both will coexist without any problem. Wait & watch.

And you missed the point. They are different hence they both have room on the market and don't require a gaggle of excuses as to why they're both around. THAT IS THE POINT.

No, Marcus. Cars are not differentiated on looks only. They definitely are not. They are differentiated on character, purpose - since those are the differentiating points based on customer's needs & wishes. E-class & CLS SB could look the same - and would still have different customer base. Because they would be different in character & purpose!

Yep still am. They've been copying each other for years. You know this.

They copy good business cases & models. And they seem to be very successful. And not they copy each other - they are copied by others as well. Yet not successfully (Acura ZDX, Honda Crosstourer etc) every time. Haven't you seen? Lexus is coming up with a small SAV - to fight X1, Q3 & GLA.

You should probably step down from your position then because you make BMW look and sound like Toyota. I seriously doubt that BMW management wants this.

Sir! Yes, Sir!

It will probably do slightly better than the X6 because of it the price.

Not necessarily. Eg. X5, X3 & X1 sell in approx. same volumes. Despite being in different price segments.

Just like you can stick to your lame arse, bullshit rhetoric and excuses. Anyone with common sense can see right through all this nonsense and see how stupid all these excuses and explanations are.

Sir! Yes, Sir!

BMW is answering questions NO ONE asked.

Yes, Marcus, indeed. You are THE NO ONE. LOL


Nighty night. T

 

[Merc1]

Do they really?

Yep.

I can tell you: in some markets 3er GT will be more popular, in others the 4er GC. It's that simple. And both will coexist without any problem. Wait & watch.

Never denied that they wouldn't, but my hunch is that both will fall on hard times here in the U.S. Just my opinion, a guess a hunch. You don't know how they will do either. We're both just speculating which is why your determination to prove me "wrong" is just so ridiculously dumb. It is an opinion.

No, Marcus. Cars are not differentiated on looks only. They definitely are not. They are differentiated on character, purpose - since those are the differentiating points based on customer's needs & wishes. E-class & CLS SB could look the same - and would still have different customer base. Because they would be different in character & purpose!

YES ENI they are. The CLS SB is nothing more than an E-Class wagon in different clothes. The styling is the reason why people would buy the CLS SB over the E, because it sure isn't price or practicality. If they looked the same there would be no need. CLS is styling exercise that paid off, the SB is no different. BOTH are less practical than the E-Class they're based on so of course the styling is what gets people to consider them. You're wrong here. Period.

They copy good business cases & models. And they seem to be very successful. And not they copy each other - they are copied by others as well. Yet not successfully (Acura ZDX, Honda Crosstourer etc) every time. Haven't you seen? Lexus is coming up with a small SAV - to fight X1, Q3 & GLA.

Not always. For Mercedes to launch a X6 competitor and Audi to do the same seems like fighting over crumbs. Small SUVs are successful, no one is arguring that so don't try to change the subject. I'm about having a 3GT and a 4GC both with 5-doors.

Yes, Marcus, indeed. You are THE NO ONE. LOL

Actually the U.S. market will be the NO ONE when one of these clown vehicles FLOPS.


M

 

[EnI]

Look, who cares if 3er GT & 4er GC flop in Us if they are successful elsewhere? Just like in X6 case: BMW plans to produced 40k units per year were even exceeded - although they are selling much less X6s in US than initially planned. Eg. 5er GT was also destined to be most successful in Europe - but it's China now where most 5er GTs are sold.

And, Marcus, no: CLS SB & E wagon are not just different in styling but in character. Eg. driving height defines the character of the car. And all the chassis settings (sport vs comfort). CLS still has a coupe character - so, a character & a soul of a sports car. While wagon is still a wagon: a sedan with "backpack".

Styling is not (always) the key differentiation point. Neither is size. But character of the car certainly is. Period. Or maybe does com(m)a suit you better?

 

[Merc1]

And, Marcus, no: CLS SB & E wagon are not just different in styling but in character. Eg. driving height defines the character of the car. And all the chassis settings (sport vs comfort). CLS still has a coupe character - so, a character & a soul of a sports car. While wagon is still a wagon: a sedan with "backpack".

Oh man please give it a rest. The point of the CLS SB is to look different from the E-Class wagon. That is the point of designing the thing in the first place. They're the same car underneath. Different look, fancier interior thats it. There is difference in the way the drive, or at least not enough to warrant that being deemed their biggest differences. Driving height is same bullshit Audi uses to jack up an A6 wagon to call it an Allroad. Same damn car. You're lost in a marketing make believe haze.

Chinese prize Buicks so their taste is suspect at times.


M

 

[EnI]

So, coupes are the same sh!t as sedans, only having different designs? Sitting height (due lowered chassis) is a marketing BS, and doesn't even affect driving dynamics & driving feel much? Sure.

Are you sure you still want & feel comfortable to discuss cars? Perhaps you'd be better discussing ... ballet.

 

[chonkoa]

No need for sarcasm. It's not a huge hit - but it's doing fine for a niche vehicle (@ such a price tag).

BMW sells more than 10k 5er GTs per year in China, which is roughly as much as eg. Audi sells Q7 units in US market annually. Or more than A7s, A8s & even A3s being sold in US per year.

Even more: that's more than CLS sold in US market per year (8k units in 2012). With US market being the biggest market for CLS. Just like Chinese market is biggest market for 5er GT.

So, yes - 5er GT sells well in China. Even better than many Audis & MB CLS do sell in US, for that matter.

No need to use stats here because anyone can splice and dice numbers.
I don't see the relevance in bringing Audi Q7 into this, I believe one can also point out that 10K 5er GT per year in China is roughly 38% of Mercedes GL sales in the US.
So it depends on which side of prism you are looking at it.
Here in North America we just don't see the point of 5er GT- and the statistics speaks for it.

 

[wac77]

Prius is a hatchback. Panamera is a hatchback. Tesla S is a hatchback. And all these cars seem to be popular - despite being hatchbacks. How come?

4er GC - despite featuring 5th door - presets a very sedan-coupeish side profile. Nobody even knew it's a hatchback until it was explained. It's not evident from car's proportions.

So, what's the problem here? The tail gate itself? Or perhaps the prejudice towards (sometimes really weird) typical hatchback / fastback silhouette (which 4er GC does not feature at all). Or hatchback oozes less status than a car with 3-box layout ?

I don't like the Panamera either, and I think it would be even more successful if it were a 4-door.

And yes, a hatchback in general oozes less status than a car with 3-box layout, in my mind, and in many markets (including the US).

I am still hoping the 4 GC is a not a 5-door hatchback. Are you completely sure it is? Have you seen it with an open tailgate?

 

[Merc1]

So, coupes are the same sh!t as sedans, only having different designs? Sitting height (due lowered chassis) is a marketing BS, and doesn't even affect driving dynamics & driving feel much? Sure.

Are you sure you still want & feel comfortable to discuss cars? Perhaps you'd be better discussing ... ballet.

No they aren't. You keep trying to change the subject. You bring up the E-Class wagon and then the CLS SB, and beyond the styling there isn't much difference. In many cases the same things applies to coupes and sedans. S to CL same difference, the pillarless design is the main difference. Sitting height can changed on a sedan so then what? That BS marketing mess from BMW has taken over your common sense. The riding height of a vehicle doesn't so squat man. If you think driving character is the reason why someone would choose a CL over the S or a CLS SB over an E-Class you're plain wrong. It is the design differences that get people in the door. Riding height lol, you sound like a fool. A BMW marketing fool. You can go discuss ballet with your own friends.

M

 

[EnI]

Here in North America we just don't see the point of 5er GT- and the statistics speaks for it.

But that doesn't make 5er GT - as a global product - pointless, needless & useless, and a bad business decision by BMW - as Marcus try to imply. Unless you guys consider Chinese people stupid since they go for "pointless", "stupid" and "needless" products. I really hope you don't.

And still, there in North America some people do exist who do buy 5er GTs. If your are WE, who the f.. are THEY then? Aliens? The Chinese?

I am still hoping the 4 GC is a not a 5-door hatchback. Are you completely sure it is? Have you seen it with an open tailgate?

All design elements seen on prototypes indicate a hatchback layout with 5 doors:

• 3rd side window is present, located behind the rear doors / C-pillar - typical 5dr car feature
• 4th (D) pillar is present (typical element of 5dr vehicles) - 4dr cars have 3 pillars only
• rear seat belts cassettes are located in the bench back (just like in the case of 5dr cars) and not in the last pillar (like in 4dr or 2dr cars)
• inside part of the rear window casing has a visual cut - indicating the window opens up with tail = 5th door.

You can go discuss ballet with your own friends.

I'm gonna do that now. It will give me much more pleasure. They at least know the subject (=ballet) well enough. Something that can't be said about you & cars, obviously. Sigh!

 

[chonkoa]

But that doesn't make 5er GT - as a global product - pointless, needless & useless, and a bad business decision by BMW - as Marcus try to imply. Unless you guys consider Chinese people stupid since they go for "pointless", "stupid" and "needless" products. I really hope you don't.

And still, there in North America some people do exist who do buy 5er GTs. If your are WE, who the f.. are THEY then? Aliens? The Chinese?

You do understand statistics don't you- normal distribution etc.

 

[Merc1]

I'm gonna do that now. It will give me much more pleasure. They at least know the subject (=ballet) well enough. Something that can't be said about you & cars, obviously. Sigh!

It's too bad you're only knowledgeable to yourself and fellow BMW koolaid drinkers.

M

 

[EnI]

You do understand statistics don't you- normal distribution etc.

Sure I do know 5er GT is not widely appreciated in US - and it is a very, very niche product for US market, selling in really tiny volumes (but still better then 5er Touring ever has). And that there will always be some extreme cases ... C'mon. even Aztek had buyers.

But still: being a flop in one market doesn't make a certain global product a flop in general - especially if that gap is compensated in other markets. Just like it happened with X6 - it's not selling well in US but it's a sales hit elsewhere & so the X6 global sales are meeting the initial plans. There are cultural & other differences - generating different needs, different expectations, different desires about certain products. Sure for some products global taste does exist, yet for some products local taste prevails.

So we can discuss whether is viable BMW offers some models in US market ... Not whether there's a (business) point in general to develop, produce & sell those models in general (eg. in other markets than US when they are excepted well).

What Marcus tries to imply is that his common sense tells him 3er GT & 4er GC are too similar & thus pointless and needless, and will flop. At least one of them if not both. But my answer is still the same: who cares if either of them or both actually do flop in US if they are successful elsewhere and the US market gap is compensated. In this case the product is still a success despite it's flop in US market. But some have troubles to understand that US does not equal the whole world. And not being able to understand the global view (on business) is just sad. Just sad.

 

[Merc1]

What's even more sad is the effort required in the way of excuses and explanations to justify a lame clown product. You don't know if they will be a success just like I don't know if they will flop. I said I THINK they will. Your problem is that you're trying to change an opinion given about this market by telling us that such and such is a success in another market. If you don't care about the success or failure of these products in the U.S. why would anyone here give a shite what they're doing in other markets? BMW USA is as dumb as the day is long to not import the 5er Touring and give us this turd of a 5GT, something they're still regretting. Let me be clear, I understand the global view on a vehicle like the 5GT, but if the 4GC has 5-doors as the 3GT does then no I don't see the point of them both. Period. Is it 2 variations on the same non essential theme.

Same thing when Bangle was designing ugly as hell BMWs. All the pages and pages of rhetoric on design, yet since the current generation BMWs look better notice how there is no need to explain their design.

M

 

[EnI]

but if the 4GC has 5-doors as the 3GT does then no I don't see the point of them both. Period. Is it 2 variations on the same non essential theme.

What about in the case 4er GC was a 4dr car? Would it make more sense then - overlapping with 3er sedan, not 3er GT? So, overlapping with a mainstream model is OK while overlapping with another niche vehicle is an overkill? Says who? You?

It's very simple: you want a more practical coupe - get a 4er GC ... you want a more versatility & roomier sedan - get a 3er GT. If you have prejudices towards hatchbacks - go f.. yourself? I don't know.

Same thing when Bangle was designing ugly as hell BMWs. All the pages and pages of rhetoric on design, yet since the current generation BMWs look better notice how there is no need to explain their design.

But now we have to explain the car's purpose to you? And have to defend ourselves endlessly regarding the "now all the cars look the same" issue? But not to all. Only to special ones.

And yes, a hatchback in general oozes less status than a car with 3-box layout, in my mind, and in many markets (including the US).

So Prius being a hybrid outweighs the fact the car is a hatchback? And Tesla S being EV outweighs the hatchback layout? And Porsche badge on a car's nose outweighs hatchback styling in Panamera's case? And in 4er GC there's nothing that special to outweighs its hatchback nature? Or what?

 

[Merc1]

What about in the case 4er GC was a 4dr car? Would it make more sense then - overlapping with 3er sedan, not 3er GT? So, overlapping with a mainstream model is OK while overlapping with another niche vehicle is an overkill? Says who? You?

Yes it would, if it looked different from the 3-Series and drove better. Sure it would like the 6GC does to the 5-Series sedan.

It's very simple: you want a more practical coupe - get a 4er GC ... you want a more versatility & roomier sedan - get a 3er GT. If you have prejudices towards hatchbacks - go f.. yourself? I don't know.

Very intelligent answer. I somehow expected more.

But now we have to explain the car's purpose to you? And have to defend ourselves endlessly regarding the "now all the cars look the same" issue? But not to all. Only to special ones.

You don't have to do shite, but you can't help it. Ourselves? Or is it just you? You're the only one here with a tendency to ramble off so much bullshit over nothing.

So Prius being a hybrid outweighs the fact the car is a hatchback? And Tesla S being EV outweighs the hatchback layout? And Porsche badge on a car's nose outweighs hatchback styling in Panamera's case? And in 4er GC there's nothing that special to outweighs its hatchback nature? Or what?

What does these vehicles have to do with BMW having 2 nearly identical cars under different badges?

M