Gone off track Spillover from the Porsche Taycan thread - Sporty vs Sports car

[Big Sam]

I know that the discussion comes with many edges (not just the appearance), but I just saw a white Taycan pass by and if that's not a sportscar I am a bald eagle

The guy is clearly a kid, deliberately misquoting people and trying to wind people up.

 

[Big Sam]

I dont need to own a EV. I value my time more over any inconvenience that comes with owning a EV to save a few pennies.

I also value the enjoyment of driving over a badge and a nice interior.

So 0 taycans, because i think they are a pointless oxymoron vehicle.

I have had and tracked around spa and the nurburging a e46 and e92 m3
Clio 172 cup, completely gutted, track only
Mx5
Vx220 turbo 280hp
Ariel atom supercharged
Audi TTRS 700hp, chassis setup by manthey, full kw 3 way, front and rear LSD, r8 gt3 racecar brake setup, syvecs ecu 8500rpm bla bla bla
AMG GTR 700hp track map by dynotech/tikt in germany and chassis setup by suspension secrets
Audi rs4 b7
Cupra k1 360hp
Porsche 996 turbo 650hp
Golf R 400hp, full AST 3 way suspension, diffs, etc etc
W204 c63

All the VAG stuff is complete and utter dog shit on track stock. Too numb, too vague, too soft, too boring. Need to spend alot of money on those cars to make them enjoyable. And fast.

The 4 door stuff never lasted long, too boring.

M3’s they are good compared to their direct competitors, but overhyped stock. Need work on them. Stock again they are boring but atleast dont understeer like a VAG.

The Porsche, its great, until you drive a vx220 turbo/exige/atom

172 cup, its raw, its engaging, the way it handles and involves you is amazing. Feels quicker than it is. Wouldnt want to have an accident in one. Even let the girls in my office take it around brands hatch.


So yea, your taycan and r8 is a complete and utter snooze fest to me.

We clearly want different things from our cars. I drive mine hard, on track, you drive on the highways.

And its ok, youre getting old you want different things from your vehicles, theres no shame in that, but you dont need to lie to yourself and call the taycan a sportscar.

I too have noticed in the last few years my desires in vehicles are changing, ive always been all out performance, was thinking a 720s or performante next year, but now a 812 is top of my list, as its practical, I wont be tracking it, but instead touring across europe.

Just say you’re priorities in life have changed, youre getting old, you have kids, you dont track your cars, your wife wont let you get anything exciting so it has to be sensible so the odd squirt of acceleration here and there from your EV taycan is about as exhilarating as it gets in your house hold.

The taycan suits you, just dont call it a sportscar

Why do you think this is of any interest? I have my opinion based on my own experiences, on cars that I've owned. Why should I care about your opinions?

 

[Fastpaddy]

There are only three sports cars in your list, the rest are hot hatchs and GTs. Almost all the other cars are slower stock than a Taycan Turbo S and all are slower than the new Turbo GT

Speed means nothing wether its a sport car of not.

The list shows driver engagement and enjoyment.

A taycan does not have this.

I would choose a shitbox 172 cup to drive around a racetrack or countryside road any day over a taycan

 

[Big Sam]

I would choose a shitbox 172 cup to drive around a racetrack or countryside road any day over a taycan

So I should have bought a 172 Cup as a family car, then?

 

[Observer1]

As someone who has owned four M3s/M4s from the E46 to the G80, and two Taycans, one of which is a GTS, I disagree wholeheartedly.

That's my opinion, but it's based on actually ownership of multiple vehicles over multiple generations.

How many M3s and Taycans have you owned?

I am pretty sure this video is already posted in this thread many pages back but I remembered it as it encapsulates the point you have been making perfectly when Henry Catchpole (who writes for Evo amongst other publications) concludes that "the brilliant Taycan GTS should be celebrated" even when pitted against a 911 GTS.

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[Big Sam]

I am pretty sure this video is already posted in this thread many pages back but I remembered it as it encapsulates the point you have been making perfectly when Henry Catchpole (who writes for Evo amongst other publications) concludes that "the brilliant Taycan GTS should be celebrated" even when pitted against a 911 GTS.

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Thanks. I've seen that video before, but it was a while ago, so I'm going to watch it again now you've reminded me of it.

One of the things that EVs, and in particular the Taycan, have going for them is they're very good at solving the issue of satisfying two opposing demands; that being sporty as well as being practical. Not having the packaging issues that a traditional sports car has, such as a 911 and R8, because it doesn't have an engine, allows them to make a very sporty car while also carrying four adults with plenty of luggage space. When I'm sat behind the wheel of the Taycan, I could be in my R8, yet I've got two baby seats in the back and a tonne of luggage.

I'm on a Taycan-orientated forum, and one of the most frequent posters is a guy called Frank Dernie, who is a former engineer with Williams F1 (amongst others). He owns a Taycan and I never get bored of his knowledge of chassis engineering, drivetrains etc. (he's credited with inventing active suspension and being the first engineer to use Computer Aided Design). He has some stories to tell from F1. He swears by the Taycan, and in fact all EVs, and he explains *why* he swears by them. It makes a lot of sense.

 

[martinbo]

Anyone who’s driven even a base Taycan in anywhere near approaching anger will say that no fat blob of an EV has any right to drive like that.
I have, and I’d just gotten out of a 982 GTS 4.0 PDK. Of course, it’ll never be as agile as a mid-engined sports car but what amazed me about the Taycan was how approachable and even encouraging it was to be driven enthusiastically. I was genuinely surprised by how relaxed the handling was - even permitting a touch of lift-off oversteer - despite the obvious mass.

Of course it’s not a 982 or 992 GTS but then no one’s ever said it is.

 

[KiwiRob]

Speed means nothing wether its a sport car of not.

The list shows driver engagement and enjoyment.

A taycan does not have this.

I would choose a shitbox 172 cup to drive around a racetrack or countryside road any day over a taycan

You're on a one way crusade to nowhere, every post comes across as more ignorant than the last.

 

[Sunny]

So I should have bought a 172 Cup as a family car, then?

Ha, no. Radical SR3 or stay home! That is what real men like fastdaddy do - strap their kids to a Radical.

And yea, also stop feeding the troll. Only cure for such willful ignorance is the ignore list.

 

[Big Sam]

Odd when they asked the current crop of f1 engineers what they thought the future of transportation would look like they all said Ev’s arent the silver bullet

As sure as night follows day, here comes Fastpaddy replying to a point that hasn't been made.

Ha, no. Radical SR3 or stay home! That is what real men like fastdaddy do - strap their kids to a Radical.

And yea, also stop feeding the troll. Only cure for such willful ignorance is the ignore list.

Pissng myself laughing at this.

And yes, he's already tested my patience beyond where I should have let him, so he's on it now.

 

[Fastpaddy]

This is a prime example of what I mentioned in my last post.

Unless this person spoke to Gordon Murray what relevance do F1 engineers have to road going passenger vehicles? .

But if we are going there GMA will transition to EV SUV's after the T.50 & T.33 projects have ended.

Gordon Murray follows V12 supercars with pair of electric SUVs | Autocar

Revolutionary duo will "change way we think about range anxiety and dynamics"

www.autocar.co.uk

Gordon murray who benchmarked his supercar against a a110.

Lightweight.

Go figure

Keep telling yourself a 2.5 tonne car is a sportscar

 

[Fastpaddy]

So I should have bought a 172 Cup as a family car, then?

Why not.

30 - years ago a clio was the family car.

50 years ago a original mini was the family car.

And a 172 has won more awards and plaudits than a gaycan ever will.

And why is a 172 cup so great? Lightness.

Theres a reason why evo mag and pistonheads roll out the 172 cup or 182 trophy year after year for comparison events, and why it so often wins its class.

Go drive one and a taycan back to back, and you will realise what a wallowy land yacht the taycan is. And the clio requires more skill to drive quickly than that computer game

 

[Matski]

gaycan

You got the King's Chipolata fingers?

 

[empower77]

Anyone who’s driven even a base Taycan in anywhere near approaching anger will say that no fat blob of an EV has any right to drive like that.
I have, and I’d just gotten out of a 982 GTS 4.0 PDK. Of course, it’ll never be as agile as a mid-engined sports car but what amazed me about the Taycan was how approachable and even encouraging it was to be driven enthusiastically. I was genuinely surprised by how relaxed the handling was - even permitting a touch of lift-off oversteer - despite the obvious mass.

Of course it’s not a 982 or 992 GTS but then no one’s ever said it is.

So I’m going to add some fuel to this fire… I drove a 4S years ago at my local dealer. It was the salesman, my buddy and I in the car. I wasn’t as impressed with its acceleration and its sense of speed which were very differently calibrated compared to a Tesla 3. Don’t get me wrong, the car was quick but did not FEEL quick. Add to that it was not able to disguise its weight well especially around some spirited cornering I did. That said it was a few years ago and I should probably give it another shot but this is what I remember from that experience.

Lastly, seems that the Taycan is dropping out of favor at least in the UK. I just skimmed over a video by Mark McCann where he is trying to put together this complicated deal involving buying 3 new Taycan Turbo S’s to get a GT3 RS allocation. Turns out that the £170K Taycans in the used market —- even when he sells them the next day after purchase will lose him at the very least about £75K a car. It’s not looking good for electric cars atm

 

[empower77]

Why not.

30 - years ago a clio was the family car.

50 years ago a original mini was the family car.

And a 172 has won more awards and plaudits than a gaycan ever will.

And why is a 172 cup so great? Lightness.

Theres a reason why evo mag and pistonheads roll out the 172 cup or 182 trophy year after year for comparison events, and why it so often wins its class.

Go drive one and a taycan back to back, and you will realise what a wallowy land yacht the taycan is. And the clio requires more skill to drive quickly than that computer game

I mean clearly you enjoy a good sexist slur, but let me ask you this, why don’t you use rotary phones? There were no cell phones back then? Worked perfectly fine in 1990. OR why don’t you use the first Macintosh or IBM computer that was bulky and had dot matrix on the screen or better yet, why not use a type writer?

Newer cars are just better. Better built, safer, faster, MAYBE not as light (unless you are referring to American cars from the 90s), more efficient, more
Reliable etc etc… the 172 was good thirty years ago not today

 

[Fastpaddy]

Ha, no. Radical SR3 or stay home! That is what real men like fastdaddy do - strap their kids to a Radical.

And yea, also stop feeding the troll. Only cure for such willful ignorance is the ignore list.

I dont have kids.

I mean clearly you enjoy a good sexist slur, but let me ask you this, why don’t you use rotary phones? There were no cell phones back then? Worked perfectly fine in 1990. OR why don’t you use the first Macintosh or IBM computer that was bulky and had dot matrix on the screen or better yet, why not use a type writer?

Newer cars are just better. Better built, safer, faster, MAYBE not as light (unless you are referring to American cars from the 90s), more efficient, more
Reliable etc etc… the 172 was good thirty years ago not today

Driving pleasure has changed in 30 years?

So why is the 172 cup still winning comparison tests from a purely driving point of view?

Why are guys now paying more for a good condition 172 cup than they did what they cost new.

Why do we see so many on trackdays?

No, 172 cup is pretty much elite hot hatch.

Always amazed how good that little car is out of the box.

A real pleasure to drive.

Meanwhile a taycan aka electric panamera, snooze fest.

 

[empower77]

I dont have kids.


Driving pleasure has changed in 30 years?

So why is the 172 cup still winning comparison tests from a purely driving point of view?

Why are guys now paying more for a good condition 172 cup than they did what they cost new.

Why do we see so many on trackdays?

No, 172 cup is pretty much elite hot hatch.

Always amazed how good that little car is out of the box.

A real pleasure to drive.

Meanwhile a taycan aka electric panamera, snooze fest.

How many 172s are on the road? What is the take rate of the 172? There are 65 mil people in the UK. What percentage of them are driving a 172 vs a new car? Please educate me…

 

[SKY]

If only I could buy an Ibiza FR with some good 20 years at its back.

People keep dreaming about exotic and fancy sports cars but its the ancient, small hatches where the real deal can be found.

 

[Big Sam]

If only I could buy an Ibiza FR with some good 20 years at its back.

People keep dreaming about exotic and fancy sports cars but its the ancient, small hatches where the real deal can be found.

The Peugeot 106 GTi with 120hp is one of the greatest cars I've ever driven. My mum was a district nurse at the time, and she was given one as a loan car for a few weeks when her normal Peugeot was out of action. She told me on a phone call in passing one day:

"I've been given a blue Peugeot 106...i...TGi...or whatever it's called".
"You mean GTi?"
"Yeah, it says GTi on the back".

As soon as I put the phone down I booked a coach back home from university for the weekend so I could drive it. Loved it immensely, even though it took more than 8 seconds to get from 0-100km/h. I didn't have much experience of cars at 18, but I knew *that* car was something special.

 

[martinbo]

The Peugeot 106 GTi with 120hp is one of the greatest cars I've ever driven. My mum was a district nurse at the time, and she was given one as a loan car for a few weeks when her normal Peugeot was out of action. She told me on a phone call in passing one day:

"I've been given a blue Peugeot 106...i...TGi...or whatever it's called".
"You mean GTi?"
"Yeah, it says GTi on the back".

As soon as I put the phone down I booked a coach back home from university for the weekend so I could drive it. Loved it immensely, even though it took more than 8 seconds to get from 0-100km/h. I didn't have much experience of cars at 18, but I knew *that* car was something special.

Collective circumstances meant that I never got round to driving the great French hatchbacks. No Pug 306 GTi-6, no 205 GTI (never sold down here) no 106 GTI (also never sold here). Nor have I driven any of the great Clios or Meganes. Just never got the opportunity nor purposely pursued a test drive. Closest I've gotten in the hot hatch stakes are Golf GTIs and Citroen DS3s. I owned a Subaru WRX hatch for about 2 years but that doesn't count as a hot hatch. I did drive a Honda Civic Type R though but that was the one with the torsion beam rear axle that no one liked.

I just grew an absolute aversion (unjustifiably) to FWD hatchbacks - to hell with understeer, even if lift-off oversteer was on offer - and moved on to AWD and then RWD cars.

Drove a 991.2 GTS yesterday, tho, and that was farkin epic. Opposite lock on demand.