Shareholder calls on Mercedes to quit F1

[Nicks]

I'm not mad. I'm aware MB are working on modular platforms, but will the be able to utilize them at the same time BMW & Audi will. By the 2015 both MFA & MRA platforms will be introduced, but the current ones will be there till the current models phase out naturally. They are a few years behind Audi & BMW.

Oh wow, you have no idea what you talking about, right? New A-class and B-class are using MFA platform as we speak, CLC debuting later this year and BLK next year.
E and CLS both utilize pretty much same platform first used on C-class, new S-class is likely to get it too. All that's left overboard - SUVs and roadsters.

There's no such thing as "2-3 year gap" no matter how much you want to believe in it.

Btw, those hybrids you named ... everybody has a hybrid versions of existing cars. I'm talking about true electric / hybrid cars. Designed & developed as electric cars.

Last time i checked nor audi nor bmw have anything like that on sale.

Also: MB still lags behind in production capacities. BMW & Audi/VW opened new factories a while ago, and already expanding them. While Daimler / MB has just began to open new factories (eg. the one in Hungary).

A while ago? Last major BMW plant was opened something like 7 years ago.

 

[Centurion]

IMO Mercedes should stay, it is still one of the most prestigious automotive brand, and F1 fits the brand's image very well. Toyota and Honda entered and failed because it lacked the right management, BMW pulled out because it was too impatient and it left just when Sauber was turning things around. Currently MB has the right group of people, and now they are given the resources they needed to become the top tier team. It will be wise to stay around for another year or two.

Staying in F1 only makes sense if the team is able to deliver otherwise F1 becoming a marketing extension turned PR disaster that stains the brand. Yes, on paper they are one of the strongest teams. They just need to deliver and represent Mercedes as a leading manufacturer. We'll see at the end of this season whether the commitment extends beyond2012.

I wonder if M-B will stay as engine supplier?

Absolutely. The Mercedes engine is the best one on the grid.

I'm not mad. I'm aware MB are working on modular platforms, but will the be able to utilize them at the same time BMW & Audi will. By the 2015 both MFA & MRA platforms will be introduced, but the current ones will be there till the current models phase out naturally. They are a few years behind Audi & BMW. And will phase out the old platforms few years after Audi & BMW. And IMO those years will give Audi & BMW advantage in EBIT figures, and even more in EBIT margins.

Btw, those hybrids you named ... everybody has a hybrid versions of existing cars. I'm talking about true electric / hybrid cars. Designed & developed as electric cars.

MB will have to work hard to catch up. Otherwise they are facing a 2-3 year gap. And I'm sure that doesn't make shareholders very happy. Therefore a call to relocate resources & for more focused prioritizing.

Also: MB still lags behind in production capacities. BMW & Audi/VW opened new factories a while ago, and already expanding them. While Daimler / MB has just began to open new factories (eg. the one in Hungary).

Be sure all three (Audi, MB & BMW) are in huge demand - and the growth provided is limited by production capacities. The one with already available production capacities can grow faster. And here Audi has a huge advantage - being a part of VAG. Once VAG utilizes modular platforms & adjust production facilities it will be quite easy to eg. make less Seats & Skodas, and more Audis instead.

The constraints of Mercedes's limited production flexibility is clear as a light bulb in a basement. Shadowing BMW and Audi's brand extensions has been a problem for Mercedes. They have been slow to develop an X6, A3, X1 and 1-Series Coupe equivalent. Where as BMW and Audi have been able to produce a rival's equivalent in a short 3 years. The 1-Series was launched in 2004 and only 8 years later have Mercedes introduced a rival model. So there are some market demands and production adaptations Dieter Zetsche must answer to.

 

[Gianclaudio]

The first thing Mercedes should make, is to fire those terrible designers it has.

 

[dorcollaku]

It is a pity walking into this discussion, but there you go, courtesy of BMW "CM'':
- first of all, the current Daimler organization is a much different beast compared to what BMW and VAG were used to compete with during the last decade. There is no comparison in terms of focus, strategy and, apparently, diligent implementation. There is a transparent commitment by MB towards being the premier automobile manufacturer of premium cars in the world, within this decade, in terms of unit sales and RoE. This is a benchmark they are willing to test themselves against. What is the respective management goal for BMW and Audi?
- second, in terms of platform strategy, Daimler is clearly ahead of its rivals. For once, there appears to be a clear concept about how the market is going to be segmented and how internal r&d will be oriented. You will have MFA platform for front-wheel drive cars and MRA for rear-wheel drive cars. Everything else, such as SLS and possible SLC will be considered as niche and priced accordingly.
- regarding MFA, we have already seen the bones of the new platform in terms of the new B class, already in the market. The new A class will follow in the immediate future, with future four door sedan and small SUV shortly thereafter.
- as for MRA, it will be presented with the new W205 C-class due to hit the market in 2014, which will be complemented with a new C-segment family of cars, comprising small SUV, small minivan, coupe, cabriolet, etc. It will be followed 2 years later by the new E-class, based on the same platform and comprising roughly the same family of cars. The same will happen with S-class, the premium side of the luxury market, in the future.
- regarding competitors, with the probable exception of Audi none is as advanced at this stage. BMW is years behind, what with the new 1-series being RWD and the new 3-series and 5-series being recently launched. There is clearly no coherent platform strategy being followed right now. Audi might benefit from the VAG economies of scale, but they will have to 'negotiate' their strategy within the VAG group and fight/collaborate with Porsche on their future platform strategy,. However, Audi holds the best cards, currently, out of the 3 big Germans.
- talk of electric and fuel cell platforms at this stage is premature, as they have less than 2% of the market. BMW has done an excellent job promoting their i sub-brand. However, that s is a distinctly risky bet. They are far from testing the market acceptance of such vehicles and it is unsure if they have the right strategy in terms of economies of scale. They should have a technological lead however, which might or might not be relevant in the medium term. At the same time, both VAG and Daimler are testing the market and hedging their bets in terms of industrial partnerships and basic r&d in this area.
- lastly, talk of capacity utilization is inappropriate in this forum, but that is a 'nice' problem to have.

What we know is Daimler has a clear commitment at being the market leader. They appear to have a clear strategy behind this, as well as a focused team in achieving the goals. Let's not forget MB remains the most valuable automotive premium brand. This is probably not enough to succeed against both Audi and BMW. Only time will tell whose bets are correct. However, BMW "CM" badmouthing and spreading disinformation about the competition is not a substitute for clear strategies and commitments on behalf of BMW management.

 

[K-A]

Staying in F1 only makes sense if the team is able to deliver otherwise F1 becoming a marketing extension turned PR disaster that stains the brand. Yes, on paper they are one of the strongest teams. They just need to deliver and represent Mercedes as a leading manufacturer. We'll see at the end of this season whether the commitment extends beyond2012.



Absolutely. The Mercedes engine is the best one on the grid.



The constraints of Mercedes's limited production flexibility is clear as a light bulb in a basement. Shadowing BMW and Audi's brand extensions has been a problem for Mercedes. They have been slow to develop an X6, A3, X1 and 1-Series Coupe equivalent. Where as BMW and Audi have been able to produce a rival's equivalent in a short 3 years. The 1-Series was launched in 2004 and only 8 years later have Mercedes introduced a rival model. So there are some market demands and production adaptations Dieter Zetsche must answer to.

However, perhaps M-B resists being "me-too" with all these chancy cars because they don't want to dilute the prestige right out of the brand. I understand that their fundamental mission is to grow shareholder value, but I for one hate when M-B goes tit for tat with their competitors.

 

[Monteverdi]

Just before a moment, Mercedes Benz won their first formula one race after the rebirth. One day after getting their first pole position. Congrats for Rosberg and the team! Also, look at the fact that all the podium was using Merc engines. Schumacher could be up there too, had not that one pit stop ended his race.

 

[Gullwing]

Shareholders should have started whining last season

 

[Centurion]

Haha you guys beat me too it. I loved Nortbert Haugh gloating up on the podium by tapping the Mercedes lagoon Jenson's, Lewis', his own and Nico's racing overall.

This is a victory Mercedes badly needed. Everyone knew they had the speed but the tyre munching was holding them back and it has officially been overcome. Welcome to F1 Mercedes.

 

[Centurion]

The money shot. Mercedes logos on four right shoulders.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Are u mad?

Mercedes Will Cut Its Platforms In Half | The Truth About Cars

Mercedes will halve its vehicle architectures to two by 2015, and will double its number of model variants to 30.
Those 30 model variants will derive from a Mercedes Front Wheel Architecture (MFA) for compact cars (A class and B class) and a Mercedes Rear Wheel Architecture (MRA) for everything above. At the moment, Mercedes has four architectures: rear-, front- , all-wheel drive, and sports cars. (The G-Wagen does not count.) Standardization will shorten development time and will make for more efficient manufacturing. The time needed to make a Benz will sink from 43 hours in 2008 to 30 hours by 2015.



ML 450 Hybrid
S400 Hybrid
E 300 BlueTEC Hybrid (available this year)
B-Class F-CELL will go on sale in 2014

Benz platform chops
Benz platform chops

 

[Human]

Benz platform chops
Benz platform chops

Premium powerhouse Daimler is following the Volkswagen lead by slashing complexity and production times at its global factories.

The world’s oldest carmaker, Daimler is aiming to chop its chassis architectures down from five to just two by 2015, when it has cycled through a refreshment of all its major model lines. It had 15 architectures in 1995.

It’s also aiming to hack 13 hours from the average time it takes to build a smart or Mercedes-Benz, taking it from 2008’s average of 43 to just 30 hours in 2015.

“We have increased productivity by two percent a year over the last few years. We will be accelerating our productivity efforts,” Mercedes-Benz production head, Wolfgang Bernhard, admitted during an investor conference last month.

Bernhard made his name by ripping time and cost from car production at the Volkswagen Group, and he has planned and instigated a full system overhaul of the Daimler Group’s global production system.

If that’s not enough, Mercedes-Benz’s engineers will need to deal with not only a shrinking number of available architectures, but they are also expected to double the number of models to 30 by 2015 as well.

The first of the new family architectures is the Mercedes Front Wheel Architecture, dubbed MFA in internal Daimler codes.

The MFA already sits beneath the all-new B-Class and made its A-Class debut at the Geneva Motor Show last month. It will also find homes beneath a sexier, younger-looking sedan, a smart, a baby SUV and there are whispers that it will also host a coupe.

In its first major attack on the smaller market, AMG will build an all-wheel drive version of the MFA, powered by a turbo-charged, direct-injection four-cylinder engine.

It’s not just a German car brand anymore, with Daimler planning to build MFA cars in Rastatt, Germany, Beijing, China and the new Kecskemet plant in Hungary.

The heart and soul of Mercedes-Benz’s lineup is its rear-drive sedans and, despite much debate on changing it onto the MFA, the next all-new C-Class (due next year) will remain the smallest machine on the Mercedes Rear Wheel Architecture (MRA).

Its production will be spread far and wide, with Mercedes-Benz plans showing it will be built in Bremen and the home factory of Sindelfingen in Germany, East London in South Africa (for right-hand drive cars) and Vance, Alabama, as Mercedes tries to make a reasonable per-unit profit out of its US operations.

"In 2020, we believe that more than 50 percent of our assembly capacity will be outside Europe," Bernhard said. In 2010, that figure was just 10 percent. While German unions are outraged at Bernhard’s plans, he is also insisting that the same 2020 timeframe will see 40 percent of Daimler’s powertrains manufactured outside Europe, up from roughly zero today.
At the moment, Mercedes-Benz has a front-drive architecture for the A- and B-Class, an all-wheel drive architecture for the ML-, GL-, R-Class, a sports-car architecture, a rear-drive architecture for the C-, E-, S-Class and the CLS and CL coupe. It also has its own anachronism in the Land Rover Defender-style, with the 33-year-old G-Wagen chassis built in Graz, Austria, by Magna-Steyr.

This is good news and the savings could only bring more and greater products to the showroom floors!