Rumormill: Audi cancels A2 Electric and A1 e-tron Plug-In Hybrid

[Giannis]

@Giannis

BMW EVs are almost here. i3 will be launched later this year, and i8 next year.

Both models are comming within a year, a year and a half. Ok, I'll give you this.

But they are not here. Which is important, because people need to see this type of cars in order to believe in them, or at least that's what I think.

For example, a couple of months back I dropped by the local Renault dealership to complain about some spare parts and I saw the new Twizzy there. They didn't have it in the showroom, but outside of it, for test drives. I took it for a quick spin and I was bloody amazed! If I didn't see such a car (a 100% electric car) let alone drive it, I would still be hater.

 

[EnI]

Mind EVs are still exotic goods, and very premium goods as well. Expensive. Not for a regular consumer. Therefore a premium product with non-premium brand hardly works - even on ICE cars.

Also EVs are suitable for dense megacities with developed infrastructure for EVs & progressive personal mobility solutions (eg car sharing). They are not suitable for eg small(er) or even mid-sized cities & towns.

And yes, the appeal of EV is a very exciting motoring. They have that go-kart feel - instant acceleration & braking. Now imagine i3, let alone i8: with low point of gravity due to lightweight materials, extremely wide track, notorious BMW driving capability etc - the i cars are extremely exciting to drive. Even the i3 - although it looks like a minivan.

i cars will have a cult status, they will be iconic - not only due to being EV, but mainly due to all-CFRP passenger cell, futuristic exterior & interior design, and due to BMW badge of course. And mind i cars are not destined to be volume models, but niche models. They are also considered a tech-lab-on-wheels (eventually the tech will trickle down to some regular BMW cars - especially the high-end ones) & a halo cars for BMW brand. Just like eg M cars are.

I wish BMW wouldn't be alone in this game. Right now it is. Volt, Leaf, Twizzy, e-smart, B-class E-cell, Tesla cars etc are still too conventional or not premium to be true BMW i rivals. Putting eg i3 in line with others existing EVs gives you an impression the i3 is an extraterrestrial thing! It's that much exotic. Not to mention the i8 with design elements of ultra-exotic supercars (with all the odd wings design, layered body panels etc) which cost several times more than i8.

BMW are very confident they have a winner in their hands with BMW i cars. And are thrilled since MB & Audi are nowhere near, and additionally canceling / delaying special EV products.

Sure BMW i won't contribute much to BMW Group sales, and even less to the BMW Group revenues & profits, but will do a lot for BMW image as technologically advanced brand, CFRP & EV leader, etc. Which IMO is a great asset for the future. At least image wise. I'm sure bosses @ VAG/Audi & Daimler aren't exactly happy ... and even trying to play down the future EV significance lately. Weird.

 

[Deckhook]

They seem to be pushing ahead with e-Quattro, maybe they see this as more important. I know I for one am glad e-tron is on hold because I personally don't think anyone's technology where it needs to be to be a huge success.

 

[JHF]

^ With such an attitude nobody would ever build nothing. Since level of (new) tech is never optimal.

But perhaps that the reason after all ... Eg. BMW resistance to go turbo until resolving all the turbo-related issues. And eg. BMW resilience to use cylinder deactivation in their engines etc. Therefore the delay in new tech introduction. Time is needed & more money poured in to find better & optimal solutions.

Perhaps Audi has the same issue with EVs. Perhaps. But highly unlikely - especially after such zealous announcements regarding EV program & all the prototypes premiered.

I guess the more probable reason is the lack of solid EV strategy within VAG. And until the strategy is set, Audi has to wait. No solitary actions. The developed EV platforms will have to be compatible with other VAG brands & models. I have a feeling AUDI EV delay is a consequence of being a part of bigger VAG family.

It was the same thing with A3 new Mk (and Skoda Octavia as well) - which was delayed due to new VAG modular MQB platform being developed. And I guess it's the same with EVs.

And since economy brand EVs aren't selling well - since today EV is still more a premium product - VAG is being a bit more careful regarding EV program. Just like the other carmakers of economy (non-premium) brands. The delay is already there, and investments would have to be huge to catch the rivals.

BMW AG is independent, and have a clear EV strategy, and they are implementing it. Yes, it's a risk ... perhaps it will be a total flop. But selling EVs under premium brand, focused on megacities, selling cars via internet, selling it to car-sharing companies etc may actually work. A lot of marketing research has been done in this field by BMW, so they have a solid ground for such a move regarding EV. Not to mention their world leading automotive CFRP mass production - unprecedented in automotive world.

I would like to see Audi & Porsche to offer EVs, but it's possible VAG would delay or even temporarily kill EV program - and only offer plug-in hybrids instead.

Daimler ... they depend much on Renault-Nissan EV plans. And R-N are already canceling some EV models due to extremely poor sales of the existing ones. In the end Daimler will have to restart its own EV program again - losing much time & being forced to invest A LOT to catch BMW. And BMW collaborating with Toyota on energy management in hybrid & EV vehicles could give BMW an additional boost.

The only solution for Daimler & perhaps even VAG or for or KIA/Hyundai etc will be to eg. acquire Tesla - a premium EV brand, with great EV brand cachet & great EV know-how. IMO there will a total bidding war for Tesla in the following years sometimes!



@Giannis

BMW EVs are almost here. i3 will be launched later this year, and i8 next year.

What do you think, which one has better technic, about the example BMW M550D xDrive or the Audi A6 TDI(Electric Turbo)?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a6/60452/audi-a6-electric-biturbo

 

[EnI]

What do you think, which one has better technic, about the example BMW M550D xDrive or the Audi A6 TDI(Electric Turbo)?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a6/60452/audi-a6-electric-biturbo

It's a thread & debate about EVs & in particular the AUDI EV strategy (in regard to the strategies of its main rivals).

What has an ICE diesel cars have to do with this? Nothing. Sure A6 TDI is a fine car, and the engine itself is great. But that hardly effects EVs by Audi. Yes, perhaps VAG / Audi will focus more on diesel engines. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. But again: we are talking about EVs here.

 

[JHF]

It's a thread & debate about EVs & in particular the AUDI EV strategy (in regard to the strategies of its main rivals).

What has an ICE diesel cars have to do with this? Nothing. Sure A6 TDI is a fine car, and the engine itself is great. But that hardly effects EVs by Audi. Yes, perhaps VAG / Audi will focus more on diesel engines. Fine. Nothing wrong with that. But again: we are talking about EVs here.

So what is good BMW EV car for you?

 

[EnI]

So what is good BMW EV car for you?

What do you mean by that?

 

[JHF]

What do you mean by that?

I guess, there is no good and fast EV BMW as The R8 e-Tron? You can say if I am wrong?

 

[EnI]

I guess, there is no good and fast EV BMW as The R8 e-Tron? You can say if I am wrong?

There is no R8 e-tron, as far as I know. It's a prototype only, not a production car. BMW i8 on the other hand will be a plug-in hybrid. So the only true EV by BMW will be (at least initially) the i3, coming later this year.

And yes, an existing car is always better than a fictional one (eg. a prototype).
There is a HUGE difference of building a superb limited prototype for factory testing purposes only, or an excellent unlimited production car for actual market & customers.

In this regard the i3 is light years better than R8 e-tron.

 

[JHF]

There is no R8 e-tron, as far as I know. It's a prototype only, not a production car. BMW i8 on the other hand will be a plug-in hybrid. So the only true EV by BMW will be (at least initially) the i3, coming later this year.

And yes, an existing car is always better than a fictional one (eg. a prototype).
There is a HUGE difference of building a superb limited prototype for factory testing purposes only, or an excellent unlimited production car for actual market & customers.

In this regard the i3 is light years better than R8 e-tron.

Why you talking about the i8, that is only a hybrid And there is now i3, for yet Maybe Audi want teased with the e-Tron R8 .. Maybe Audi wait for BMW move, and then it's released better and faster than the new facelift R8, or better and different Audi