Rolls-Royce La Rose Noire Droptail commission

[Merc1]

Of course has RR DNA. Don't you recognize that 10-12 years old dash?

I’m talking about the last pic posted.

M

 

[kiki voinea]

I’m talking about the last pic posted.

M

I was sarcastic. But you are right

 

[Jonathan19]

Im not a RR fan but this one look gorgerous and with a V12!

 

[Matski]

I think it's pretty ugly, but as I've said before, it only needs to look good to the people that commissioned it.

 

[dalab]

 

[kiki voinea]

I'm to poor to understand this things....

But how...32mil for a 2013 Wraith interior with some extra sauce

 

[dalab]

I'm to poor to understand this things....

But how...32mil for a 2013 Wraith interior with some extra sauce

According to the explanation in the videos, that extra "sauce" is actually a work of art with more than a thousand cut pieces designed and put by hand in a unique process in a car, which took several years, something that I suppose guaranteed and increased its value with time, in addition to the intrinsic value that the work itself has,.

That the clock enters and leaves the board with a mechanism like that for you to put it on or leave it, they say it even required specific crash tests, and I love that

The $32M does not make sense no matter how much we look for it, beyond the fact that they want to pay it and they practically asked to pay it like this, there are many works of art that my eyes are crap and are worth even more.

Btw, thanks for the photos comparing them, I thought they were even more similar or practically the same, but it's only in the layout

 

[Matski]

But how...32mil for a 2013 Wraith interior with some extra sauce

If you were paying the bill what would you ask for?

 

[kiki voinea]

If you were paying the bill what would you ask for?

For 32mil....That car should be unique from bolt to bolt , IMO.

Some hand crafted wood on the rear seats don't make up for that price. And I don't believe that "months of work" bs. I've seen pictures of that dude working on that rear panel.

But , I'm not even close to be that rich , so , maybe I don't have their mindset or something....

I mean , ok . You pay for the brand. But not even the most exclusive cars ever build were 1/4 of that price , ever. And there were lots of them over the time . Unique cars. Koenigseggs , Paganis , etc.

Please , just listen Alex Innes speaking about the car. They call "ingenuity" the fact that the car has a glass roof. Unique because it has a electrochromatic glass ( ahem , what year is it...)

If it was a wood craft , made in triangles with shapes or something , ok.

BUT IT'S VENEEEER CUT IN TRIANGLES , layed down,god damn it. Ok , handcrafted. BUT IT'S VENEER !

Cut it , stick it , move on. What can you do in 3 years?!

But then again , people are buying Alec Monopoly paintings...And they call that "art"

 

[Centurion]

For 32mil....That car should be unique from bolt to bolt , IMO.

Some hand crafted wood on the rear seats don't make up for that price. And I don't believe that "months of work" bs. I've seen pictures of that dude working on that rear panel.

But , I'm not even close to be that rich , so , maybe I don't have their mindset or something....

I mean , ok . You pay for the brand. But not even the most exclusive cars ever build were 1/4 of that price , ever. And there were lots of them over the time . Unique cars. Koenigseggs , Paganis , etc.

Please , just listen Alex Innes speaking about the car. They call "ingenuity" the fact that the car has a glass roof. Unique because it has a electrochromatic glass ( ahem , what year is it...)

If it was a wood craft , made in triangles with shapes or something , ok.

BUT IT'S VENEEEER CUT IN TRIANGLES , layed down,god damn it. Ok , handcrafted. BUT IT'S VENEER !

Cut it , stick it , move on. What can you do in 3 years?!

But then again , people are buying Alec Monopoly paintings...And they call that "art"

Well said. Cars like the Sian at least had upgrades engine and a capacitor. Tangible innovations that are baked into the premium over an Aventador.

 

[Matski]

For 32mil....That car should be unique from bolt to bolt , IMO.

So during your discussions with Rolls-Royce, they either decline to accept the commission, you decline to proceed, or they go away do a feasibility study and come up with an estimated price, and proceed from there.

Personally I think that makes little sense. If you're expecting a ground up bespoke car, down to the last nut, you've got to expect to be covering the entire development cost of creating a new model, which is a lot more than 32 million, even for fairly basic cars. If there's underpinnings or bits the customer is happy with it just makes sense to re-use them because you're unlikely to get something better engineered in buying a one off, without spending a vast amount of money. In practice, this is just what's done - a number of the Sultan's cars were built on platforms not even belonging to Bentley.

You're not paying for them to reinvent the wheel, unless you want to.

I mean , ok . You pay for the brand.

It's not just that, it's that multiplied by the fact they're making something for you, and not for someone else.

Please , just listen Alex Innes speaking about the car. They call "ingenuity" the fact that the car has a glass roof. Unique because it has a electrochromatic glass ( ahem , what year is it...)

If it was a wood craft , made in triangles with shapes or something , ok.

BUT IT'S VENEEEER CUT IN TRIANGLES , layed down,god damn it. Ok , handcrafted. BUT IT'S VENEER !

Cut it , stick it , move on. What can you do in 3 years?!

It's pointless to debate the merits or costs involved in these choices, but what you have to remember is you're paying for all the time and development costs of pretty much everything from a blank sheet of paper to the finished thing, not just the unit costs of the bits that end up on the car, and there's basically no ammortisation of those costs. A fixed cost for a 4-off car is a TEN times what it is for a 40-off run in the final price - it's very basic maths. Consider something like iterative development of a piece that needs to be destructively tested, the customer isn't just paying for the time and material that goes onto their specific car, they might be paying for the development, manufacture and temperature cycling to destruction of 8 other units of the piece before the one on their car even gets made.

So when it comes to examples like this...

Well said. Cars like the Sian at least had upgrades engine and a capacitor. Tangible innovations that are baked into the premium over an Aventador.

There are 82 Sians. Divide any cost you want by 82, and then divide it by 4... it'll be 20 times more expensive on the lower unit production run. I'm very sure that if you wanted your Rolls-Royce to come with an uprated powertrain, they'd do it - in the past it might have gone off to Cosworth as some engines did - I dare say now that it might go to BMW Motorsport. But the difference between getting a Rolls-Royce with a bespoke powertrain and a Sian powertrain might be twenty times! (all other things being equal), just because of the number of units involved.

The bottom line is it's not just about the product, it's about having something no one else does. A Mercedes 300 SLR Ulenhaut is not worth $135,000,000 by any measure other than what one person is prepared to pay to have it ... and in this case the person/people involved is prepared to pay this price to have one of the worlds most renowned car manufacturers design, develop, test, manufacture, assemble and warranty something just for them - that both carries a very, very, significant cost but also (most probably) an absolutely whopping profit margin - because who's not going to leverage the opportunity to part billionaires from their money!

And they call that "art"

Define art and what it is about those works that exclude them from that definition.

 

[kiki voinea]

So during your discussions with Rolls-Royce, they either decline to accept the commission, you decline to proceed, or they go away do a feasibility study and come up with an estimated price, and proceed from there.

Personally I think that makes little sense. If you're expecting a ground up bespoke car, down to the last nut, you've got to expect to be covering the entire development cost of creating a new model, which is a lot more than 32 million, even for fairly basic cars. If there's underpinnings or bits the customer is happy with it just makes sense to re-use them because you're unlikely to get something better engineered in buying a one off, without spending a vast amount of money. In practice, this is just what's done - a number of the Sultan's cars were built on platforms not even belonging to Bentley.

You're not paying for them to reinvent the wheel, unless you want to.



It's not just that, it's that multiplied by the fact they're making something for you, and not for someone else.



It's pointless to debate the merits or costs involved in these choices, but what you have to remember is you're paying for all the time and development costs of pretty much everything from a blank sheet of paper to the finished thing, not just the unit costs of the bits that end up on the car, and there's basically no ammortisation of those costs. A fixed cost for a 4-off car is a TEN times what it is for a 40-off run in the final price - it's very basic maths. Consider something like iterative development of a piece that needs to be destructively tested, the customer isn't just paying for the time and material that goes onto their specific car, they might be paying for the development, manufacture and temperature cycling to destruction of 8 other units of the piece before the one on their car even gets made.

So when it comes to examples like this...



There are 82 Sians. Divide any cost you want by 82, and then divide it by 4... it'll be 20 times more expensive on the lower unit production run. I'm very sure that if you wanted your Rolls-Royce to come with an uprated powertrain, they'd do it - in the past it might have gone off to Cosworth as some engines did - I dare say now that it might go to BMW Motorsport. But the difference between getting a Rolls-Royce with a bespoke powertrain and a Sian powertrain might be twenty times! (all other things being equal), just because of the number of units involved.

The bottom line is it's not just about the product, it's about having something no one else does. A Mercedes 300 SLR Ulenhaut is not worth $135,000,000 by any measure other than what one person is prepared to pay to have it ... and in this case the person/people involved is prepared to pay this price to have one of the worlds most renowned car manufacturers design, develop, test, manufacture, assemble and warranty something just for them - that both carries a very, very, significant cost but also (most probably) an absolutely whopping profit margin - because who's not going to leverage the opportunity to part billionaires from their money!



Define art and what it is about those works that exclude them from that definition.

Some parts that you wrote I get it. Some I don't think even you understand it.

Like , comparing 82 pieces to 4 , by diving them , feels like you never encountered any production by any means or domain.

That 300 SLR Uhlenhaut you are mentioning , has a HISTORY ! This does not. Or it has , if you judge it by that 10-12 years old dash....


Value is not equal to worth . That we can agree on.

But saying that this car makes sense to ask 32mil for it....I don't know man...

A concept car costs waaay less than a production car . Keep that in mind... (as costs)

 

[dalab]

That was fast

 

[Centurion]

Because RR cars are ultra conservative in design. These commissions provide a safe platform for the brand to test new design ideas.

 

[dalab]

Because RR cars are ultra conservative in design. These commissions provide a safe platform for the brand to test new design ideas.

True, there are here some solutions never seen before and totally applicable, also some in the boat tail...

 

[Matski]

Like , comparing 82 pieces to 4 , by diving them , feels like you never encountered any production by any means or domain.

Feels to me like you've got no concept of what design & development entails, or what a product realisation process is, but I think we're talking at cross-purposes. I'm not talking about simple economies of scale based on process, tooling or materials, I'm pointing out the very basic concept that the cost of development that's attributable to each unit produced, is 20 times higher if you only build 4, compared to if you build 80. I don't understand how you can dispute this?

 

[kiki voinea]

I'm not talking about simple economies of scale based on process, tooling or materials,

Bingo. THERE IS NO SUCH THING IN PROTOTYPING! Tooling is expensive for mass production.

I am working right now on a product development ( watch winders ) , and prototypes were a piece of cake. Getting the tooling/custom PCBs/moldes/etc done are a pain . Especially financial...

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

There is almost zero development cost in this car. This is a coachbuilding, which uses an existing platform and drivetrain. Making a hand built car with such a platform costs about 2 million Euro.

 

[dalab]

There is almost zero development cost in this car. This is a coachbuilding, which uses an existing platform and drivetrain. Making a hand built car with such a platform costs about 2 million Euro.

"Rather than being simply a reworking of the now-retired Dawn convertible, the Drop Tail is underpinned by an all-new monocoque chassis constructed from steel, aluminum and carbonfibre, in a first for the Coachbuild division. It previously based on bespoke models on the Architecture of Luxury platform, which is also used for the Cullinan, Ghost and Phantom."

Second Rolls Royce Drop Tail is a celebration of gemstones | Autocar

Second of four versions of £20m-plus two-seat roadster takes inspiration from gemstones, flowers and sand dunes

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[kiki voinea]

Second Rolls Royce Drop Tail is a celebration of gemstones | Autocar

Second of four versions of £20m-plus two-seat roadster takes inspiration from gemstones, flowers and sand dunes

www.autocar.co.uk

Yes , but still , nothing near to a mass produced product , where stamping machines are involved for chassis.

And honestly , who will open this 1 of 4 car to see if is actually a refurbished or brand new skeleton ?

They are bragging about a glass roof as "innovative"...So doubts are here

Check the interior. The door panels are 95% Wraith door panels. If you look closely , you can see that they did not even bother to make another windows switch panel. They just put a plastic cover over the rear windows buttons ( as La Rose Noire does not have rear windows ) .

So they did bother to make a new chassis , but not bother to make distinctive door panels ? Ok....